What will Mortal Kombat 11's legacy be if there are no more Kombat Packs/patches?

[Law Hero]

From my POV krushing blows is not a great idea/mechanic. I believe this is one of the reasons the game feels watered down. The flashy combos I was use to watching and doing in MKX got scraped because of this mechanic.

I see no reason why you can't have both. Giving moves special properties when used a certain way does not, in any way, directly oppose a combo-heavy system/game. In fact, I'd argue krushing blows would work best in a combo-heavy game. Other games have been doing things like this for years now. Mechanics like a move launching on counter hit, doing DOT if used a specific way, stacking damage on repeat uses, causing variations of stuns, crumples, etc are in plenty of games, especially anime fighters. Mechanics like these add depth to the game and help to differentiate characters from one another.

I think krushing blows are a step in the right direction, but the problem is, as they are now, they're shallow, imbalanced, and unevenly distributed amongst the cast. I'd love to see a Mortal Kombat game with long stylish combos where you're also rewarded for clever and precise use of your tools with a variety of unique benefits and effects. Top it off with NRS's exceptional presentation, and I think it'd be something truly great.

 

[1man3letters]

Where baraka had a mid projectile in the beta

 

[Pizza]

I voted Average.

The game was also clearly rushed, and I'm 100% with Tom when saying that it's VERY incomplete. It's better now than at launch, but it still feels very shallow. The custom moves and their slots were just so poorly handled that it makes me sad thinking about it.

Character archetypes are nowhere near as well-defined as they used to be in previous installments. Obviously, the variation system is part of the problem.

I've been saying it since MKX, the Variation System was a mistake.

Back in MKX, I already felt that some klassic characters had their movesets butchered by the Variation System and all in all it didn't help the legacy characters at all. But for the new characters it wasn't that bad because it was like you could choose a version of them. Brawler Cassie was one of my mains. These characters didn't have a history in the franchise, so NRS had more freedom to do different things with them.

But now in MK11 things got worse. I barely recognize Sonya and Kitana. They don't play like they used to play. Not even Cassie plays like I used to play with her in MKX. I asked around if there was a way to use customs to make her similar to her Brawler variation and nobody gave me an answer. How can we expect characters like her to become legacy characters when they don't have an established moveset? So I guess if Cassie returns in MK12, she will play different again? What is her archetype?

I played Kitana a lot in MK9. She had a nice number of tools, I'm not a pro or anything but I felt like there was a depth to her gameplay that was very rewarding. In MKX I stuck to her Assassin variation only and I felt it was arbitrarily limited. Now in MK11 I feel like I cannot play her, she's like a non-viable character to me lol am I exaggerating?
Since MKX Sonya uses drones? wtf? Where are the kartwheel, the square wave punch, the leg grab, the rising bycicle kick? She was so fun to use. Even in MK9 she had great tools, and to me Sonya's main weapons were her legs. Now I don't feel like I'm playing Sonya, it's someone else. Why does she needs stances? what??


The Variation System mudded everything. Some characters are able to retain some of their legacy movesets, but others have been completely butchered.
I know Skarlet is often regarded as a Zoner, but honestly I don't play her as such lol why would I? She can do whatever she wants. She has a krushing blow that's easy as hell to do and does damage over time. You think I wasn't annoying people online with that? Combine two krushing blows and stay in their faces slapping them with blood.

----

The single player content is a tricky one. It's true there's a lot of content to play around... but is it fun?

The Kasino is a disgrace. You can still go to the Shrine Slot Machine and bet koins all day hoping to get your 7-7-7 and maybe unlock something that isn't worthless.
It has lootboxes that are RNG, it's a mine field. That "every krypt is handcrafted" bullshit is insulting. This is RNG. Chests are lootboxes. They mocked us in our faces.
Maybe you want to unlock a new costume? Sorry, take this palette swap. Play purple Sub-Zero, so exciting.

Towers of Time were trash at the beginning, and they were improved but still... most of the time I just sent my badass OP AI Sonya to beat towers without using konsumables and it was like Law Hero said, the game plays itself.

Mobile-tier grinding!! Remember the impaled heads? LOL


Anyway, I hope that by MK12 the Variation System has been completely eradicated and NRS is working on archetypes and legacy characters more seriously.

 

[Nephrite]

I feel like they tried to make a more polished version of MK9 and succeeded in removing bugs and glitches, but at the same time messed up with meter management (X-rays sharing the same meter with enhanced moves was so much better than Fatal blows which feel like they only serve to steal victories with no cost at line), breakaways (breakers were better), combos (creativity and freedom was much better in MK9) as well as anti-airing. The game ended up being a sterile version of MK9 with some incredibly frustrating problems (Fatal blows to steal wins and breakaway-players punishing players that were doing the combo are my two biggest frustrations).

Gameplay-wise, they butchered one of my two fave characters in the franchise - Kitana. First they gave her Mileena moves and pissed-off both Mileena and Kitana fans, and then she feels so slow and heavy and limited in terms of combos. I tried several times giving her a chance, but after playing Fujin, she feels so limited and boring.

I am grateful for Fujin though, my other fave character. Everything about him is brilliant, his looks, his gameplay and I am happy he got a nice amount of screen-time in the Aftermath story expansion. He is the only character I have fun playing and the only reason why I check out tournament stream footage. Given the overwhelming positive reception he's gotten, here's hoping he doesn't get forgotten for the next 14-15 years again. #SkyWakkaForMK12

 

[xWildx]

I just wish NRS wasn’t so knee-jerky in the way they develop their next title. Just because we complained about armor discrepancies in MK9, doesn’t mean we want armor pissed onto every move in MKX. Similarly, just because we thought MKX was overkill doesn’t mean we want absolutely none in MK11.

Meter was handled the same way. Zoners build meter too easy? Ok. That doesn’t mean every character needs to build meter at exactly the same rate. Perhaps keep the offensive and defensive meter, but offensive only charges from landing an attack, and defensive only charges while being hit.

Boom. No more free breaks as soon as your touched and strategy is rewarded for successful hits.

I wish NRS was a bit more strategic with their design choices.

 

[NaCl man]

I went average. It has potential I think and could be something great if they used this as a base for the future. But if they try to reinvent the wheel again I will remember it as ok but not great.
I've had some fun with it though.

 

[M2Dave]

I just wish NRS wasn’t so knee-jerky in the way they develop their next title. Just because we complained about armor discrepancies in MK9, doesn’t mean we want armor pissed onto every move in MKX. Similarly, just because we thought MKX was overkill doesn’t mean we want absolutely none in MK11.

Well-said. I have been making these points on the podcast for months. So have the other co-hosts.

Armor is frowned upon in the NRS community because of Mortal Kombat X, but implementing balanced armored attacks is feasible.

In Street Fighter 5, for example, armor requires meter, activates on the third frame, loses to throws, usually does not launch, and is generally always unsafe on block.

NRS has struggled discovering the middle ground with armor and several other gameplay elements (i.e., fatal blows, wake up system, breakaway, etc.), and Mortal Kombat 11 is a perfect example of these struggles. The game is neither broken nor bad. Just poorly designed in my humble opinion.

 

[Marlow]

I'd say somewhere between Good and Exceptional. I don't think it's ever going to have the nostalgia factor that MK9 had, but it's still a very solid game. The single player content is great, the netcode is solid, very balanced roster. I think there were a lot of innovative ideas and attempts at new gameplay mechanics like Breakaway, Krushing Blow, Flawless Block, Fatal Blow, and the Meter System, but I don't think those gameplay mechanics were always successfully implemented.

Overall though, great game. 8/10. I think the legacy will be similar to other Fighting Game franchises: The older you are, the more likely you preferred the earlier games like MK9 or MKX, while I'm sure there are a lot of younger players who MK11 was their first MK game who probably love it.

 

[Marlow]

Just poorly designed in my humble opinion.

I actually like a lot of the ideas behind the designs. I just think a lot of it was poorly or unevenly implemented.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

This is the mortal kombat I had the least fun with since MK Deception, in no small part because of how limited the combo routes are.

 

[Darth-Nero]

This community will never learn. It doesn't matter what you think the legacy of this game will be. The history will be rewritten into something it was not during the games prime, many years later into the future once we get there. It's happened four times already.

MKX, the worst NRS game ever made that got constantly complained about every single day during it's prime, with countless 100+ page threads and the FGC laughing at the barbaric "meta" is NOW some how regarded as this "amazing", "hype", "creative" fighting game in 2021. It's insane how history gets rewritten.

And I need to mention Injustice 2 the most "boring", "spam fest", "zoning", "runaway", "walk-back city" game ever created that literally died to me (and countless others) after the first couple months where we left and never came back, is now receiving praise in 2021 as this impeccable neutral fighting game with the most brilliant arch types? LOL.

You guys can't fool me and many others anymore with these constant charades and backpedaling. No one is called out for their inconsistency. And many of you will be "missing MK11" and calling it a "good but misunderstood game" in the future once you're stuck with the more bland-post-nerf-Jacqui and Sheeva-less NRS games of the future. I can't wait to bump this thread in 2026 and 2030 when we're on the new super mega shit, one-more-patch-away-from-being-perfect NRS game and people rewrite history for MK11 in the future as a game that was "such an underrated game".

If you're going to neglecting the order of events, then yes the community would look as schizophreniac as you're trying to convey. But that's not the case.

Mkx was controversial at launch because of the batshit insane transition from mk9 with the whole load of crap they ripped from injustice 1 and implemented into mkx just as you mentioned (and yes back then i supported your critique along with many others but that's besides the point)

Similar to mk11, with their slow pace of patches and lack of communication, it took them 2 long ass years of constant community outcry to finally remove armored wake-up launchers and fucking 50/50s on top of 50/50s. That actually made the game pretty fucking decent and for the 1st time since launch the community came together into enjoying the fucking game (minus the whole Alien fiasco)

that happened somewhere mid 2018 if i remember correctly. back then it was already past the nrs milk expiration date for their games (2 years) so that also meant no more support, no more tournaments and therefore top players dropping the game and getting ready for the next which helped kill the scene even quicker.

Despite of that, many ppl who dgaf about injustice continued to play mkx and praise it to this day (they were shamed by being called 'necros' mind you). those are the very same ppl who are vocal now about how good mkx was. it's not an inconsistency from the community, it's you and the other milkers who abandoned the mkx scene for injustice 2 and thus you only remember the 1st two years of negativity. But ppl have been praising mkx long before mk11 was even announced.

 

[Shania Twain]

I won't lie...MKX had a very crappy roster IMO. Way too many new characters introduced and the coolest ones were NPCs in story mode. It did seem to have flashier combos. Several of the character skins looked very rushed. However I think some of the klassic female mK2 skins looked better than MK11. I also thought having Jason in MKX was a bit silly. Those movies always terrified me but then it made me realize....this is silly....Nearly every MK character in existence could easily destroy him. but I get it. Predator and Alien made a lot more sense.

Anyhow....This game is fine just still needs updates and should have probably had many of what it has in the past year already in the game. IE...small roster at launch was not good. I don't think the netcode is as good as people claim. still same issues with the others. So I dunno...I don't think it's terrible...they just may as well add the rest of characters from this new Trilogy and stages and give us the ultimate swan song. and a PIT stage!

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

I put good. I didn't grind any previous NRS games; DC is laughable in it's mythos to me and enough players I respect in mk11 speak of the dogcrap MKX meta they could not wait to get away from.

MK11 could def be better. Fatal Blow is as silly now as it was launch day lol.

 

[Demon_0]

This community will never learn. It doesn't matter what you think the legacy of this game will be. The history will be rewritten into something it was not during the games prime, many years later into the future once we get there. It's happened four times already.

MKX, the worst NRS game ever made that got constantly complained about every single day during it's prime, with countless 100+ page threads and the FGC laughing at the barbaric "meta" is NOW some how regarded as this "amazing", "hype", "creative" fighting game in 2021. It's insane how history gets rewritten.

And I need to mention Injustice 2 the most "boring", "spam fest", "zoning", "runaway", "walk-back city" game ever created that literally died to me (and countless others) after the first couple months where we left and never came back, is now receiving praise in 2021 as this impeccable neutral fighting game with the most brilliant arch types? LOL.

You guys can't fool me and many others anymore with these constant charades and backpedaling. No one is called out for their inconsistency. And many of you will be "missing MK11" and calling it a "good but misunderstood game" in the future once you're stuck with the more bland-post-nerf-Jacqui and Sheeva-less NRS games of the future. I can't wait to bump this thread in 2026 and 2030 when we're on the new super mega shit, one-more-patch-away-from-being-perfect NRS game and people rewrite history for MK11 in the future as a game that was "such an underrated game".

So much this.

By the next game most of these MK11 haters be praising it like no better game existed because MK12 is "too combo-heavy".

 

[Barakall]

Preposterous statement.

Tekken 7 was released in 2015 and Street Fighter 5 was released in 2016. Each game's meta has had more than five years to evolve and to be adjusted by the developers.

Tekken 7 and SF5 I can beat opponents with just button mashing, MK11 you really have to plan your moves carefully. You get punished for a wrong move in MK11 way more than in other games. And just because they had 5 years to evolve and adjust, doesn't mean it has...MK's meta was solid from the start.

 

[Pizza]

Fatal Blow is as silly now as it was launch day lol.

Now that you mention this. I know Fatal Blows are the next step over the X-Rays, but while I liked the Fatal Blows at the beginning they started to quickly become boring to me.

What do you all expect about Fatal Blows and Krushing Blows for the future? Keep them? Tone them down? Erase them?

 

[Marlow]

I'd keep both FB and KB, but tone them down, or maybe try and change how they function a bit. I think if they were implemented better they'd be a good way to try and add depth and decision making to the game.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Well... It was only yesterday that people were talking about how we didn't deserve to be at EVO because MKX died by the second year, calling the game trash, and saying skilled players would only play it if they had pot bonuses:

Video - MKXL / Injustice Twitter Poll - The Evo 2017 Rant by Mitsuownes

Everyone who is appalled by the latest twitter poll by MrWiz (link here) should check out this rant video by @Mitsuownes as I believe he hits the nail on the head. Keep in mind, I believe the anger should not be going towards the EVO staff for polling this question, rather to us. You'll know...

testyourmight.com

And I remember saying at that time that maybe the game is more fun than people give it credit for despite the issues, while people were saying we probably didn't even deserve to be at EVO since our second year (2016) was smaller than the first and the game was clearly dead.

Tom Brady stated in a video cast he had a few months back and people dogged him out. NOW people finally see his point on why this game only 1 year old, has already lost half of it's fan base and lost all hype for a new game. When will people take their blinders off and realize, this game is screwed and will NOT recover anytime soon.

Then there was a poll where the majority of people said not to make MK11 like MKX:

Poll - Should MK11 Build on MKX?

From MK9 to MKX, all the returning characters were completely redesigned, all the old stages were scrapped for new ones, and many new universal mechanics and features were added. Moving forward to MK11, I really don't think they should rebuild again. Instead I think they should use MKX as its...

testyourmight.com

Lots of people had opinions on why it should be super different from what we had before:

I hope that the legacy thing is just for Injustice and they keep reimagining for MK.

Nah. If MK11 is a legacy game and MKX is the base for it, FUUUUUCK that dude. Ain't nobody tryna see unreactable overhead/low into full combo 50/50s anymore. Who wants to watch that? Who wants to watch someone travel from one side of the screen to the other in less than a second? I'd rant more about MKX but that's not what this thread is about.

lets just hope they bring back footsies. none of this injustice pish

I'd love a legacy MK game, just not with MKX as the base, not MK9 either because the movesets were kind of bland. So if MK did become a legacy game the best route would be for MK11 to start fresh.

For there to be footsies. And i mean real enjoyable footsies. But for this to happen, there has to be the elimination of a few things, such as RUN, the enormous amount of 50/50's and those ridiculous neutral jump, long range, plus on block punches/kicks.

Say what you want, but its more enjoyable fighting your opponent with real zoning..spacing..reads...frame traps... without those things.

Screw guessing 24/7 for defense against combos. Time to go back to playing the game like real Mortal Kombatants.

And months before INJ2, people were talking about how MKX was the most disliked game we've ever had, the people who stuck with playing it were only doing so for the money, and it was already dying:

Will MKX Die When Injustice 2 Comes Out

a video i made discussing if mkx will die when injustice 2 comes out

testyourmight.com

And how the meta didn't evolve and the game was boring after early on:

It'll for sure go down as the least popular NRS game, with the least replay value since everything about each character is found in like a week. Plus, I think people will really look back at this game and really look at how absolutely ass the marketing and communication was.

Now, all of a sudden people talk about MKX in a completely different light.

And some people already knew exactly what was going to happen:

6 months into injustice and then you'll have players saying "mkx may have had its problems buuuuut blah blah blah" although they were the ones saying its a crapfest

Nah most of TYM are bitter MK9/Injustice rose glasses wearers who do nothing but bash MKX.

You will be among the first players who mention that 8 months from the time of I2's release that the game is dead. Of this I have no doubt. When MK XI comes out, you will no longer play I2.

I swear I'll never stop being baffled by the NRS community's fascination with its own games dying. It's a fucking obsession.

The NRS community is stuck in a cycle. We won't get out of it until we wake up and admit that we're in it. We can never wait to kill the current game for the next one, and we can never let the people who enjoy the current game just have their peace and enjoy/encourage each other.

We'll still see if MK11 gets a patch or not — and I think it 100% deserves one (I don't feel that Ultimate is in "Last balance/meta patch state"). But regardless of what happens, we need to take a hard look at ourselves and ask if we'll actually support it, and each other, if/when it does.

 

[Darth-Nero]

Real talk, is it actually possible that they already dropped support for mk11? How will they even market their next game if that's the case??

 

[Pizza]

Real talk, is it actually possible that they already dropped support for mk11? How will they even market their next game if that's the case??

Going by recent rumours, it's possible. They could show something at E3 and that's it.

 

[Second Saint]

Not sure if I've said it, but overall, I think MK 11 is a pretty good game. The netcode is good, the practice mode is legitimately amazing, and I'm satisfied with the overall strength of the characters. Even the worst characters to deal with in this game are nothing in comparison to some of the monsters in previous ones. I'm not a fan of some fo the new mechanics, specifically breakaway and fatal blows are trash, and I don't care for flawless blocks, but that's more a personal preference.

But at the same time, I can't make myself play it anymore, because I'm essentially cursed with character loyalty, and their patching and communication strategies have just been completely awful. There have been few patches, and they were clearly reticent to make large character changes, even if they were needed. Now 2 years later, the oppressive top tiers are still mostly the same, and very few of the low tiers are no longer low tier.

At the same time, I'll give credit to their willingness to add in universal mechanics and fix hit boxes. They've made a lot of universal changes that I specifically asked for like jump kick nerfs, normal buffers useful on both offense and defense, delay wakeup nerfs, making kustoms legal, etc. They did a good job on those things.

NRS has never been good at communicating with the community, but it's felt worse than usual this time. Absolute silence for months on end multiple times. The patch cycle could literally be over now, and we would have no idea. They just won't even bother to tell us the game is done.

 

[Juxtapose]

Now that you mention this. I know Fatal Blows are the next step over the X-Rays, but while I liked the Fatal Blows at the beginning they started to quickly become boring to me.

What do you all expect about Fatal Blows and Krushing Blows for the future? Keep them? Tone them down? Erase them?

I've never had an issue with Fatal Blows. My biggest issues with Krushing Blows is not the mechanic itself, but:

1. Their execution is widely inconsistent from character to character in ways that really hurt characters
2. They seem to be the mechanic that adds damage and replaces more "traditional" kombos in the game

Since I like kombos, for point 2) alone, I'd want to see Krushing Blows not return.

 

[theotherguy]

The NRS community is stuck in a cycle. We won't get out of it until we wake up and admit that we're in it.

I'm sure it'll happen after the next game...

Spoiler

We'll still see if MK11 gets a patch or not — and I think it 100% deserves one

It does... but does the community deserve it? Guaranteed, even if there is a patch and 80% of the things that people have requested get adjusted, we all know that in 2wks there'll still be complaining that it wasn't enough, done wrong, waited too long, X got nerfed to hell, and so on and so forth and what have you...

MK11's legacy will be that it's proven once again that the cycle keeps on going around and around.

 

[DeftMonk]

Everyone has their opinion but to those of u guys saying stuff like “this community is rediculous! Ever game it’s the same hate! Idiots!” Do you only play nrs games or what? I would rather play dems fighting herds or power rangers battle for the grid over mk11 and it isn’t even close. Game is just pathetically shallow/noob friendly and intentionally so. The best summary I have seen is from Naci along the lines of “was ok, interesting ideas that weren’t fleshed out fully”.

 

[Arqwart]

It does... but does the community deserve it? Guaranteed, even if there is a patch and 80% of the things that people have requested get adjusted, we all know that in 2wks there'll still be complaining that it wasn't enough, done wrong, waited too long, X got nerfed to hell, and so on and so forth and what have you...

MK11's legacy will be that it's proven once again that the cycle keeps on going around and around.

Here's the problem with this logic, though: NRS has backed themselves into a corner where a single patch is extremely unlikely to address all notable concerns. Unless they drop an MKX-style patch nuke which hits anything and everything (which I doubt they will considering their current soft touch approach for MK11), there's too much of a backlog of needed balance for one patch to be truly satisfying. Will it help? Hell yeah. Will it be enough? Probably not. Let's take a look.

• Sheeva
• Kabal
• Cetrion
• Jacqui
• Joker
• Liu
• Fujin
• Shao Kahn
• Rain
• Rambo
• Skarlet
• Robocop
• D'Vorah
• Kitana
• Mileena
• Frost
• Literally the entire variation system because each character has 2-4 good moves at most while the rest are extremely niche or never worth picking
• Some pokes escaped unscathed through the poke patch, still allowing ease of mashing or back dashing after to punish any attempts at the opponent taking a turn back despite having blocked the poke
• Janky hitboxes
• Hurtboxes during aerial normals, especially kicks

Not to mention the fact that even if they addressed everything in one patch, it would likely result in more needed balance after as there's no way in hell they're going to get everything "right" on the first go.