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What will Mortal Kombat 11's legacy be if there are no more Kombat Packs/patches?

How would you grade Mortal Kombat 11 if the product were finished?


  • Total voters
    178

Courante

Give all to another and save yourself
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the first red flag this game ever gave me was pre-release gameplay where 16bit and some of the other devs boldly declared (as if it was a good thing) that:

"ICE CLONE IS GONE, yeah that's right, SUB ZERO DOESNT HAVE IT."

and I think to myself, jesus christ, what else is gonna get taken away in the name of balance?

kitana dry af with worse zoning and NO FUCKING AIR JUGGLES

dvorah setplay and rushdown gimped. boring and slow when she used to be the exact opposite

kotal kahn needs a fucking slot to get F2 pop-up, all of his cool moves are gone (sun god choke was gas man where did it go?)

launch sonya felt like an MKX character but NRS decided no fun allowed

johnny cage gimped beyond belief

all your facvorite tools where either nerfed, not present, or locked behind extra move slots and not allowed in tournament.

there was nothing to lab

couldn't even make fun combo vids which are like the easiest way to hype your game

Oh you want to set this up on their wakeup? That'll be a bar of meter, bucko and also it doesnt work. Oh you wanna launch them? That'll be a bar of meter, bucko and also it doesn't work outside the corner. You wanna do pressure on block? I'm sorry, bucko the real block pressure is deciding not to finish your string and hitting d1,d1 throw instead.

launch crypt was a nightmare
launch towers were bullshit
takes forever to unlock costumes, etc.

game doesnt repsect my time or creativity. its a blackhole of fun. pro players looked bored af too. game looks gorgeous but jesus christ ther only thing more stale than playing the game was watching it in tournament.
 

DeftMonk

Noob
I understand the association between Cetrion and mid-range zoning. However, if you watch Shang Tsung players like Arn Kratos and Wound Cowboy play, they attack far more than they zone.

Robocop and Skarlet may be zoning characters, but they are low tier characters who add no value or innovation to the meta. Imagine having zoned with Freddy, Kenshi, Zod, Sinestro, Shinnok, Predator, Atom, Starfire, Dr. Fate, Red Hood, etc. and then being asked to zone with Robocop and Skarlet. LOL.

Some people will claim that I am biased, but I think that rush down is weak too in the sense that frame advantage is scarce, oppressive okizeme is difficult to enforce, and armor is nonexistent outside of fatal blows.

Character archetypes are nowhere near as well-defined as they used to be in previous installments. Obviously, the variation system is part of the problem.
I don't think the variation system has anything to do with it. Recovery on zoning moves/setup moves is way too long and as far as rush down is concerned you already mentioned why it doesn't feel like rush down. Variation system doesn't make this issue worse imo.
 
I voted "average" as I believe the game would fall between "average" and "good." As I've mentioned in other threads, I think the entire reboot trilogy is very strong and each title has different things to offer.

I pre-purchased Mortal Kombat 11 Premium Edition (PC) at full price, as well as pre-purchased the "Aftermath" expansion and Kombat Pack 2 at discounted prices, and I recently purchased Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate on Xbox One X for 50% off during the Xbox Spring sale to pass pandemic time. I've been playing the Xbox One version a lot, offline, and enjoying myself, and it's been interesting revisiting the game as I've barely touched it through 2021 prior. The PC version is also overall my most played game on Steam.

I think the game caters very well to casual play, but suffers strongly from a lack of depth for competitive play, and as such, I think it will be remembered as the lesser title of this trilogy by the core fighting game audience.

In terms of production values and visuals, the game is fantastic. In terms of post-launch content, it's the most any Mortal Kombat title has ever received. A dozen additional characters, four new Stages, Friendships, added Brutalities, cosmetics, and of course, an entirely new Story Campaign that was over 50% the length of the base game.

The game's core mechanics, however, leave much to be desired, which is why I can't take the game seriously as a competitive fighter and moved on to Killer Instinct for that. The game's mechanics do take skill to use properly, good neutral, Flawless Blocking, frame gaps, etc. are not something casuals will be doing, but I personally find those systems frustratingly implemented in this game (the Get Up system barely ever works for me, and as such I barely use it, which is horrible) and the risk/reward not there since this is a combo-lite game.

As I've mentioned before some time ago, when I have played Kombat League, I've felt like I'm fighting with the game's mechanics as opposed to my opponent, which is not what a fighting game should be, that's not how I should be feeling throughout a Set.

Casually there's enough Single Player modes and mindless stuff to do to have fun, but competitively, the game is a let-down. I feel the game is more a good gateway game for fighting games. Someone who's never played a fighting game before can pick this game up, learn it well enough to have a good time, but be left wanting more. This would then allow them to branch out into other titles from NetherRealm Studios, or other companies overall.

Update: I'm not expecting any more characters or Story content to be added to the game at this point, perhaps just some cosmetics as following NetherRealm Studios' pattern, they typically stop after the "komplete edition" releases at retail, and that was Mortal Kombat 11 Ultimate late last year, but I would like to see one final balance patch.
 
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Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
I understand the association between Cetrion and mid-range zoning. However, if you watch Shang Tsung players like Arn Kratos and Wound Cowboy play, they attack far more than they zone.

Robocop and Skarlet may be zoning characters, but they are low tier characters who add no value or innovation to the meta. Imagine having zoned with Freddy, Kenshi, Zod, Sinestro, Shinnok, Predator, Atom, Starfire, Dr. Fate, Red Hood, etc. and then being asked to zone with Robocop and Skarlet. LOL.

Some people will claim that I am biased, but I think that rush down is weak too in the sense that frame advantage is scarce, oppressive okizeme is difficult to enforce, and armor is nonexistent outside of fatal blows.
Shang's a character who changes a lot with kustoms.. doesn't Arn Kratos use Ermac lift? TBH, my experience watching Wound has not been that he does rushdown more but I watched a match with him vs 2EZ's Sub to double check and he must have used flame pillar twenty times despite Sub punishing it with slide a couple times. I don't make claims of greatness but I also play Shang and I've zoned with him since he came out, and I don't use ground inferno anyhow. As for Certain.. if you want to play her full screen with earthquake and boulder cancels, you can.

Robo supposed to be super low tier but he shows up higher on tier lists then people seem to realize. Tweedy seems to think he's worthwhile, Rewind had like 8 characters lower then him and Sonicfox hot take'd him into S-tier. Personally, I think Robo is rushed and not that fun but surely M2Dave can have a modicum of respect for a "pew pew" character. And let's not act like being low tier means you can't play the game. There's also Frost and some variations to consider if you want zoners.

I feel you if you don't like the character offerings but it doesn't have to be Robo/Skarlet or bust. I've had a lot of fun with Shang with Shake, Screaming Souls while keeping Crashing Flames. I zone, I throw meteors in mid range, I poke with soul steal, I do execution cancel combos and transition into forward attacks when the time is right. Probably not his best variation but I found a playstyle I like with a character I find to be deep


Character archetypes are nowhere near as well-defined as they used to be in previous installments. Obviously, the variation system is part of the problem.
I agree, I don't think they should bring it back. The moves I find most interesting are undertuned(Shang's Flame Pillar for example) because there's too much going on with each character. That said, a lot of the unique variation combos are fun.
 
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M2Dave

Zoning Master
I don't think the variation system has anything to do with it. Recovery on zoning moves/setup moves is way too long and as far as rush down is concerned you already mentioned why it doesn't feel like rush down. Variation system doesn't make this issue worse imo.
Why does Robocop have access to a mid command grab when he is supposed to be a "premier zoning character"? LOL. You could make the case that the mid command grab is his best special move, at least in some match ups. The point is that if Mortal Kombat 11 had traditional character archetypes, no zoning character would ever be able to equip a mid command grab. Imagine Guile having a short range command grab similarly to Necalli. He would be overpowered so the developers would obviously have to limit his zoning to compensate for the fact that he has access to an unbreakable throw. This hypothetical scenario literally represents Robocop. LOL. So evidently the variation system affects character archetypes when you are able to equip nonsensical special moves around which characters have to be balanced.

If you want to play her full screen with earthquake and boulder cancels, you can.
Of course you can, but why would you? LOL. Earthquake and boulder cancels are not moves that make Cetrion a strong character.

Cowboy wants to control space with ground eruption as he did with Shinnok, but obviously this strategy is ineffective, at least against a majority of the top tier characters who can flawless block the second the hit and punish. For this reason, Arn Kratos uses the tele-slam and plays aggressively.

I have no respect for Robocop. He is a weak, boring, and poorly designed character. Sonic Fox and Tweedy certainly have the credentials over me and may place Robocop as high as they want on the tier list. The reality is that the character is rarely used in competitive play. When he is used, the results speak for themselves.

Fun is subjective so I am not going to criticize you. A lot of the underused moves that you find interesting I find weak and boring because they add absolutely nothing innovative to the meta. The game is and will always be low poke / throw / mid string / jump kick unless there is an overhaul happens, which seems to be less and less likely as the days go by.
 

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
This community will never learn. It doesn't matter what you think the legacy of this game will be. The history will be rewritten into something it was not during the games prime, many years later into the future once we get there. It's happened four times already.

MKX, the worst NRS game ever made that got constantly complained about every single day during it's prime, with countless 100+ page threads and the FGC laughing at the barbaric "meta" is NOW some how regarded as this "amazing", "hype", "creative" fighting game in 2021. It's insane how history gets rewritten.

And I need to mention Injustice 2 the most "boring", "spam fest", "zoning", "runaway", "walk-back city" game ever created that literally died to me (and countless others) after the first couple months where we left and never came back, is now receiving praise in 2021 as this impeccable neutral fighting game with the most brilliant arch types? LOL.

You guys can't fool me and many others anymore with these constant charades and backpedaling. No one is called out for their inconsistency. And many of you will be "missing MK11" and calling it a "good but misunderstood game" in the future once you're stuck with the more bland-post-nerf-Jacqui and Sheeva-less NRS games of the future. I can't wait to bump this thread in 2026 and 2030 when we're on the new super mega shit, one-more-patch-away-from-being-perfect NRS game and people rewrite history for MK11 in the future as a game that was "such an underrated game".
 
For me they homogenised so much of the game instead of doing the difficult thing and keeping things fun and diverse (which is way harder to balance)

They've kept the content they can monetise coming but their patches have been minimum effort and minimal impact on the longevity of the game.

Tl/dr they took the easy route then parked the bus on everything that couldnt make them money. it definitely has the Skeleton of a good game though and excels in many factors (sadly not ones that important for fun factor)

This is the game that broke good faith with NRS for me. Game is criminally boring and shallow
Funny how the tl/dr part is longer
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
MKX, the worst NRS game ever made that got constantly complained about every single day during it's prime, with countless 100+ page threads and the FGC laughing at the barbaric "meta" is NOW some how regarded as this "amazing", "hype", "creative" fighting game in 2021. It's insane how history gets rewritten.

And I need to mention Injustice 2 the most "boring", "spam fest", "zoning", "runaway", "walk-back city" game ever created that literally died to me (and countless others) after the first couple months where we left and never came back, is now receiving praise in 2021 as this impeccable neutral fighting game with the most brilliant arch types? LOL.
I am sure that you can find all kinds of posts on Reddit and Twitter, but who is rewriting history in this thread? Who has called Mortal Kombat X's meta "amazing, hype, and creative" and Injustice 2's meta "impeccable?" I have read players post that they prefer a fast-paced fighting game so they had rather play Mortal Kombat X. The same is true for Injustice 2 and its players who prefer a slower-paced fighting game that has superior zoning and run away. I see absolutely nothing wrong with people choosing to play a game according to their preferences. Mortal Kombat 11 receives the most criticism because it is the most recent and most played NRS fighting game that is obviously the most likely to receive new content and balance adjustments.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
This community will never learn. It doesn't matter what you think the legacy of this game will be. The history will be rewritten into something it was not during the games prime, many years later into the future once we get there. It's happened four times already.

MKX, the worst NRS game ever made that got constantly complained about every single day during it's prime, with countless 100+ page threads and the FGC laughing at the barbaric "meta" is NOW some how regarded as this "amazing", "hype", "creative" fighting game in 2021. It's insane how history gets rewritten.

And I need to mention Injustice 2 the most "boring", "spam fest", "zoning", "runaway", "walk-back city" game ever created that literally died to me (and countless others) after the first couple months where we left and never came back, is now receiving praise in 2021 as this impeccable neutral fighting game with the most brilliant arch types? LOL.

You guys can't fool me and many others anymore with these constant charades and backpedaling. No one is called out for their inconsistency. And many of you will be "missing MK11" and calling it a "good but misunderstood game" in the future once you're stuck with the more bland-post-nerf-Jacqui and Sheeva-less NRS games of the future. I can't wait to bump this thread in 2026 and 2030 when we're on the new super mega shit, one-more-patch-away-from-being-perfect NRS game and people rewrite history for MK11 in the future as a game that was "such an underrated game".
I'd rather you participate in the day-to-day discussions than show up every few months to tell us how dumb and wrong we are, but I guess that's just wishful thinking.
 

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
He tells us zoning characters like Robocop shouldn't have command throws in MK11, because that's not how a true "zoner" would work. But then in the same breath looks back at past NRS "zoners" that had extremely broken jumps, footsie moves, unreactable 50/50 vortexes, safe double digit plus frames, obnoxious wake-ups with very little counterplay, absurd teleport attacks, fastest pokes / mids in the game, and were doing 50%+ basic BNBs, and so much more laughable things. Yeah, those true "zoners" alright.

I hope the next Marvel / DC game is full of a ton of zoning since that's what many think will get NRS games to be loved.

I'd rather you partcipate in the day-to-day discussions than show up every few months to tell us how dumb and wrong we are, but I guess that's just wishful thinking.
The only dumb person on this forum is me. It's been this way since the day I joined TYM.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
He tells us zoning characters like Robocop shouldn't have command throws in MK11, because that's not how a true "zoner" would work. But then in the same breath looks back at past NRS "zoners" that had extremely broken jumps, footsie moves, unreactable 50/50 vortexes, safe double digit plus frames, obnoxious wake-ups with very little counterplay, absurd teleport attacks, fastest pokes / mids in the game, and were doing 50%+ basic BNBs, and so much more laughable things. Yeah, those true "zoners" alright.
Those zoning characters were regulated by some of the best anti-zoning characters ever (i.e., Smoke, Martian Manhunter, Batgirl, etc.)

Character archetypes at work.

The only dumb person on this forum is me. It's been this way since the day I joined TYM.
Nobody is calling you dumb.

If you want to defend Mortal Kombat 11, defend Mortal Kombat 11. Stop deflecting, engaging in straw man arguments, and blaming community members, at least in this thread, for comments that they never made.
 

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
Imagine calling MMH an anti-zoner when he was more of a zoner at the highest level of play. Don't believe me? Watch Jupiter who was the best MMH in Injustice 1, he wins most of his games by playing keep away and zoning. He even beats SonicFox by zoning out Batgirl. You know your zoning has to be ABSURD to be able to shutdown her and make her work. And calling Batgirl an anti-zoner when she was more of a rushdown and vortex character is also very disingenuous. Smoke still lost to Kenshi in MK9 (the best zoner in that game overall). Want to know why? Because Kenshi wasn't just a "zoner". He had broken neutral, armor, plus frames, and non-stop safe 50/50s.

These "archetypes" you keep harping on and patting NRS on the back for were not very well thought out at all or intentionally designed. They were just a random collection of tools put together that had no rhyme or reason because NRS were in their infancy back then when designing competitively-focused games.


If you want to defend Mortal Kombat 11, defend Mortal Kombat 11.
I don't need to defend MK11. I'll just wait a few years for you guys to do it like you've done with MKX, Injustice, and etc.
 

LionHeart V1

You will feel deaths cold embrace
When is MK12? better yet when is MK13? We all know we are going to complain so lets just skip it.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
They were just a random collection of tools put together that had no rhyme or reason...
Now you know how most people feel about Mortal Kombat 11's character designs. LOL.

I disagree with at least half of what you are stating, but I have no desire to argue about old games and old match ups. Such arguments only exist to distract.

This thread is about Mortal Kombat 11, its stagnant meta, and its lack of content.

If someone wants to defend the game by defending the game and not engaging in straw man arguments about the community, I will continue reading and replying to this thread.
 

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
Cool. Anyway I'm gonna book mark this thread and bump it years from now when we're playing that new super shitty Marvel / DC NRS fighting game with a bunch of zoning and horrible decision making. But at least it will have archetypes and combos because people think it's gonna be that easy to have NRS players love a game. Lolol

18186
 

DeftMonk

Noob
Why does Robocop have access to a mid command grab when he is supposed to be a "premier zoning character"? LOL. You could make the case that the mid command grab is his best special move, at least in some match ups. The point is that if Mortal Kombat 11 had traditional character archetypes, no zoning character would ever be able to equip a mid command grab. Imagine Guile having a short range command grab similarly to Necalli. He would be overpowered so the developers would obviously have to limit his zoning to compensate for the fact that he has access to an unbreakable throw. This hypothetical scenario literally represents Robocop. LOL. So evidently the variation system affects character archetypes when you are able to equip nonsensical special moves around which characters have to be balanced.
I disagree with you. The developers decided they dont want any "premiere zoning character" or setup character or grappler for that matter. (or any other archetype other than mk11 character). If you totally removed robocops command grab he still would not be a threat as a zoner because #1 he cant hit confirm any stray zoning hits into a combo and #2 he has no slow projectile with low recovery as ALL zoning characters have in other games to mix up their attack. Like you mentioned guile...well his lp rendition of sonic boom is a good example here. NRS doesn't want this type of thing in MK11 at all so regardless of robocop having the ability to equip a good command grab...he still would not be given those things.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
Cool. Anyway I'm gonna book mark this thread and bump it years from now when we're playing that new super shitty Marvel / DC NRS fighting game with a bunch of zoning and horrible decision making. But at least it will have archetypes and combos because people think it's gonna be that easy to have NRS players love a game. Lolol

View attachment 18186
I'm still not even sure what you're so mad about. Is all this anger really because people are saying they prefer MKX or I2 over Mk11?
 

DeftMonk

Noob
REO what are you on about? MKX and mk11 are obviously 2 different things. I like mk11 fine but if NRS walks away after saying they are gonna "Long term support the game" as an excuse to their behaviour during its life...Then that is really sad for me anyway. BTW who is all of a sudden praising injustice 2? Do you only talk to people who live in an NRS bubble? Theres so many good games out now and coming out who on earth is talking about injustice 2 right now? BTW ya i liked it better than mk11. It is still not such a good game that people in 2021 are gonna be suddenly throwing away all the other options to mention injustice 2 lol.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
This community will never learn. It doesn't matter what you think the legacy of this game will be. The history will be rewritten into something it was not during the games prime, many years later into the future once we get there. It's happened four times already.

MKX, the worst NRS game ever made that got constantly complained about every single day during it's prime, with countless 100+ page threads and the FGC laughing at the barbaric "meta" is NOW some how regarded as this "amazing", "hype", "creative" fighting game in 2021. It's insane how history gets rewritten.

And I need to mention Injustice 2 the most "boring", "spam fest", "zoning", "runaway", "walk-back city" game ever created that literally died to me (and countless others) after the first couple months where we left and never came back, is now receiving praise in 2021 as this impeccable neutral fighting game with the most brilliant arch types? LOL.

You guys can't fool me and many others anymore with these constant charades and backpedaling. No one is called out for their inconsistency. And many of you will be "missing MK11" and calling it a "good but misunderstood game" in the future once you're stuck with the more bland-post-nerf-Jacqui and Sheeva-less NRS games of the future. I can't wait to bump this thread in 2026 and 2030 when we're on the new super mega shit, one-more-patch-away-from-being-perfect NRS game and people rewrite history for MK11 in the future as a game that was "such an underrated game".
REO has said a lot about my own thoughts on how the community interacts with the legacy of it's games.

In MKX, all of the "diverse" character archetypes really only came down to roughly one "good" variation per character, with a handful of exceptions. Almost every Tremor player I encountered when I traveled(and I traveled extensively for MKX), played Crystalline. There was no need to do otherwise.

Likewise, once Demolition Sonya caught on, just about every Sonya player went to that variation. Same for Reptile in nimble or Leatherface with Killer.

This idea of homogeneity among custom variations isn't new to 11, it's always been there. Every "best" variation had a flowchart not unlike 11. The only difference is that the game was faster so it feels more dynamic than it actually is.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I disagree with you. The developers decided they dont want any "premiere zoning character" or setup character or grappler for that matter. (or any other archetype other than mk11 character). If you totally removed robocops command grab he still would not be a threat as a zoner because #1 he cant hit confirm any stray zoning hits into a combo and #2 he has no slow projectile with low recovery as ALL zoning characters have in other games to mix up their attack. Like you mentioned guile...well his lp rendition of sonic boom is a good example here. NRS doesn't want this type of thing in MK11 at all so regardless of robocop having the ability to equip a good command grab...he still would not be given those things.
Pre-patch Deathstroke and Deadshot had no slow projectiles with a low recovery. Neither did Kenshi, Shinnok, Sinestro, etc. This type of tool may not be required, depending on the design of the zoning character. You and I agree that NRS does not want effective zoning in Mortal Kombat 11, though.

Is all this anger really because people are saying they prefer MKX or I2 over Mk11?
REO does not understand why people would want to play MKX and Injustice 2 over MK11. I am sure that fans of those two games can think of many reasons. LOL.

Personally, I find MKX's offensive meta monotonous and Injustice 2's meta too slow, but I would play these two games over MK11 any day of the week.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
I do wish the Injustice games had better netcode; I'd really love to go back and give my Deathstroke and Cheetah another shot, now that I'm somewhat less scrubby than I was when those games were popular.