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Scorpion General Discussion

HapHaxion

"Knowledge" - Taio Cruz
Do you play Scorpion or want to counter pick Scorpion? :)
I can not answer the question properly though as I have not enough MU experience to decide if it is difficult due to my lack of MU knowledge or it is really difficult (most cases the first lol). Others do I am sure.
Asking because I've heard Scorp doesn't really have and bad MUs, but he does have several 5-5s which could be technically considered his worst MUs. Was wondering which characters fit into that barrel; also in addition to which ones other people say is easy for Scorpion, but Scorp players disagree
 
Hi guys. After watching this
and another video which stressed the strength of the wake up power I re-thought the power of Scorpion restand into teleport (or 21) after amp spear and may use it more accordingly.

Teleport ender is not bad as a 2 bar SR Bnb does around 55-70 damage less (depending on your ender) damage but leaves the opponent +6 at good range for F3/B1/dash up throw mind game and the opponent can not use his wake ups.
With 21 ender after amp spear you are plus for everything too.

My only concern about this is that ok I sacrificed e.g. 60-70 damage for the restand but the best I can get after it is around 140-150 (throw or any other meterless damage). And then he is on knock down too.
Unless I can get him pressing buttons with B1 and loop him back with tele (B14xx tele) but it is 104 damage.

So I am still not convinced that it is worth the effort rather than dealing with the wake up which I can not avoid sooner or later. :)

Well you can do it with 1 bar too with only amp spear into F32xxtele ender but you get around 100 less damage for it which is evern worse (but you can punish harder if you launch).
But for mixup it is still a good option and can confuse the opponent. :)

Btw for this purposes I started thinking about picking Cassie Cage too as her restand is god send (no need more resources and closed to optimal damage).
But similar to Scorpion the opponent probably breaks away fast and you mostly face opponents without resources in your next combo = oki&better damage is better.

Fortunately Scorpion can manage rolls & wake up jumps & U2 pretty well with meaty F3 (not F32). It recovers pretty fast against rolls and can punish jumps with F3.

Do you guys use restand?
 
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vegeta

Saiyan Prince
Premium Supporter
I'm gonna lab Reborn variant today. Been using searing rage since the start. Do we know which is better? Or are they both just good and useful for certain situations? I'm guessing reborn is based on his TP Cancel "mental" frames or does it all legit mixups? Just curious before I get into this later.
 
I'm gonna lab Reborn variant today. Been using searing rage since the start. Do we know which is better? Or are they both just good and useful for certain situations? I'm guessing reborn is based on his TP Cancel "mental" frames or does it all legit mixups? Just curious before I get into this later.
Yes it is "mentally plus" lol. As if you wait for blocking the regular tp and comfirm the cancel you are probably late.

It is even not easy to react at all (but against Scorpion you are watching for teleport and should not be a problem maybe in lag) plus watching the cancel.

But if you always use cancel it will be predictable and "easily" punishable so if you wanna use it for offensive mixup you need to use regular teleports too.
If you play with less prepared opponent he will not challenge your cancel and not even punish/block regular teleport: but it is a bit scrubby gameplan lol.

E.g. I was totally unprepared against Reborn and I was beaten hard first 5 matches (b14xx tele cancel pressures, anything other into cancel pressure) but he did not really do regular teleports.
Then I downloaded him and beat the next 5 times and he quited. :)
It was still difficult to wait him with a full combo punish after tele cancel lol.

I have little experience with Reborn so I rather not talk about it but if you watch RedRaptor's Reborn you will see his true power. Reborn is good.
I prefer SR as it forces me to play with more caution in neutral. With Reborn I feel I am free on everything (and it is pretty true as on my Kasual level they are rarely manage it properly) - and it makes me a bit lazy and I feel unfair - and it is less fun to me. And my footsie play can improve better. Regular teleport still makes it easier - but I do not really like zoning so I rather use a teleport against zoning than doing zoning wars or keep away with zoning.

If you read back few pages somebody collected his comparison too. This thread or other I do not remember.
 
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M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
Do you guys use restand?
I do.

At Combo Breaker, I saw Killer Xinok re-stand with standing 4 after EX spear. The damage is slightly higher than 2,1 while the hit advantage is only less by one frame.

I agree with you about using meaty f+3. Using b+1,4,3 gets you killed.

Meaty 1,1 is also good. The second hit beats throw tech, uppercut, and jumping and is safe versus rolls.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
I do.

At Combo Breaker, I saw Killer Xinok re-stand with standing 4 after EX spear. The damage is slightly higher than 2,1 while the hit advantage is only less by one frame.

I agree with you about using meaty f+3. Using b+1,4,3 gets you killed.

Meaty 1,1 is also good. The second hit beats throw tech, uppercut, and jumping and is safe versus rolls.
Yeah I restand with 4 as well. It has the most damage with one of the highest hit advantages.

Been getting kinda bored of Scorpion though. If you’re playing a good player, it’s hard to open them up in Searing Rage. In Reborn his TP mixups are very good, but it’s really boring not gonna lie. Also in Searing Rage I have to play incredibly patiently with the life lead. It’s not worth the risk to pressure when you don’t need to since his only true mix is f3/f34/f3 throw stuff.
 
Yeah I restand with 4 as well. It has the most damage with one of the highest hit advantages.

Been getting kinda bored of Scorpion though. If you’re playing a good player, it’s hard to open them up in Searing Rage. In Reborn his TP mixups are very good, but it’s really boring not gonna lie. Also in Searing Rage I have to play incredibly patiently with the life lead. It’s not worth the risk to pressure when you don’t need to since his only true mix is f3/f34/f3 throw stuff.
What does bore you? The neutral play?
Do you like rather mixing up? Yes opening up good people with footsies is not easy and tiring (boring is personal preference).
But most of the characters need play the same. Just maybe they have more tools (projectile, etc.).
Scorpion can be boring though as he has the footsie as mixup and the F3 stagger pressure and a teleport which should be used for rather punishing or on read (searing rage).

Other than that he needs to wait for a mistake from the opponent. Footsie will open uo.
To be honest it is not boring but exhausting to me against a good player.

But good footsies Scorpion should be difficult to be openned up as well.
Other characters might have better mixups and probably unsafe stuff where Scorpion can punish fine.

And Scorpion has good play around F3 as well which can open up people as well not just for a throw.

I just played a long set against Jaqui as my friend picked her up. He is way beginner but she is still a pain to me. Jaqui rushing and I try to play footsies and use my slightly better range. It is not easy.
But I am rather pissed than bored lol.
 
I do.

At Combo Breaker, I saw Killer Xinok re-stand with standing 4 after EX spear. The damage is slightly higher than 2,1 while the hit advantage is only less by one frame.

I agree with you about using meaty f+3. Using b+1,4,3 gets you killed.

Meaty 1,1 is also good. The second hit beats throw tech, uppercut, and jumping and is safe versus rolls.
I tried today the hellport reset it is not bad either. Because it is just +6 the opponent tends to press buttons after a throw which leads into good mind game.
But I am sure that S4 reset is good as well with the huge hit advantage just the combo damage is less (e.g. 2 bar full combo: 386, hellport reset 320, S4 reset 298).

Against Jaqui I found oki pretty good she has poor wake up attacks. But others have better.

And a standing reset eliminates every factor for that damage price which can be worth it (no need to worry about wake up punishes which can save lot of life and pain).
And can cause more pain for the opponent with constant pressure for that short period.

I may use it more however I feel pretty comfortable in oki yet. I am happy I could open the opponent up and cash out and accept that I may not be able to continue the pressure. I am pleased if the opponent uses def meter for wake up as I can combo them better. But of course I do not like getting full combo punished lol. Therefore nowadays I use safe F3 and will try 11 too.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
What does bore you? The neutral play?
Do you like rather mixing up? Yes opening up good people with footsies is not easy and tiring (boring is personal preference).
But most of the characters need play the same. Just maybe they have more tools (projectile, etc.).
Scorpion can be boring though as he has the footsie as mixup and the F3 stagger pressure and a teleport which should be used for rather punishing or on read (searing rage).

Other than that he needs to wait for a mistake from the opponent. Footsie will open uo.
To be honest it is not boring but exhausting to me against a good player.

But good footsies Scorpion should be difficult to be openned up as well.
Other characters might have better mixups and probably unsafe stuff where Scorpion can punish fine.

And Scorpion has good play around F3 as well which can open up people as well not just for a throw.

I just played a long set against Jaqui as my friend picked her up. He is way beginner but she is still a pain to me. Jaqui rushing and I try to play footsies and use my slightly better range. It is not easy.
But I am rather pissed than bored lol.
I destroy most opponents. Which is a good thing. But when I win it’s not satisfying. It’s like, I won yeah, but it’s because Scorpion is annoying as fuck to fight against. I want to play footsies and all that shit that I love. Which is why I main 3 characters now. But the 2 other characters I use are pretty boring too. I feel like I’m winning too easily, or I lose because I don’t know the MU. I learn the MU then it’s back to unsatisfying wins. I want to have fun while I’m winning.

Guess I’ll just keep grinding until the DLC comes out. Very excited for every DLC character actually, especially Nightwolf.
 

Jhob5

Noob
I use standing 4 for restand. I used to use hellport, but if you do a f3 and your opponent does a perfectly timed d1 he will beat you out and you cant counter hit him. The damage is a little less than a b14 hellport restand but the advantage is way better
 
I use standing 4 for restand. I used to use hellport, but if you do a f3 and your opponent does a perfectly timed d1 he will beat you out and you cant counter hit him. The damage is a little less than a b14 hellport restand but the advantage is way better
That's the mind game. After hellport there is a pretty good space to whiff punish the opponent D1 even without stepping back. Reward is not too much though just around 140-150 without meter. So reward is a throw amount of damage after the restand if you have no meter. But I guess nobody resets with 1 bar. Or do you? :)
 
I destroy most opponents. Which is a good thing. But when I win it’s not satisfying. It’s like, I won yeah, but it’s because Scorpion is annoying as fuck to fight against. I want to play footsies and all that shit that I love. Which is why I main 3 characters now. But the 2 other characters I use are pretty boring too. I feel like I’m winning too easily, or I lose because I don’t know the MU. I learn the MU then it’s back to unsatisfying wins. I want to have fun while I’m winning.

Guess I’ll just keep grinding until the DLC comes out. Very excited for every DLC character actually, especially Nightwolf.
Ok but you "complained" that you are bored because good players is difficult to open up (in that case I think you would need footsies what you like! - so I do not understand).
Now you say you destroy opponents = they are not good players (or at least worse than you). I understand lol.

I do not know your opponents but if you are above average you can find too much noobs online. I consider myself medium level and online is still a joke most of the times. :)
And most of the time I do not meet better players just unknown match ups (and lag mashers). Like you said lol.
Maybe you just need better partners and problem solved.

I think my Scorpion is not annoying as I rather play footsies and pretty defensive play than staggering F3 into death: that way I can learn match ups too (I can watch better what the opponent does).

For better footsies I picked Cassie Cage too but do not played too much, yet. I think she is all about footsies and neutral. But I do not think it will be more exciting just finally being able to fight up close properly with 9F-11F MID lol.
I do not really like zoning and keeping away (that is footsies too though) that's why Scorpion was always a good choice to me starting from mkx (I exchange zoning to shut it down).

With Erron Black I did not feel satisfied winning at all lol. Probably that's why I do not force it.
And despite the fact that I see Jacqui and Sonya pretty strong (top1-4 lol no surprise) I just do not like that rushdown, mixing playstyle never did.

Please drop me some video footage about your gameplay if you have I am interested in your playstyle (not against noobs). :)
I may try to capture some too however I do not really feel anybody is interested in and can learn from it. I usually watch back matches to learn when I felt too much bullshit (like yesterday against a 170 ping masher Baraka lol - I did not check Baraka moves yet at all). If I know I will capture it I will be nervous and play bad lol.
 
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I do.

At Combo Breaker, I saw Killer Xinok re-stand with standing 4 after EX spear. The damage is slightly higher than 2,1 while the hit advantage is only less by one frame.

I agree with you about using meaty f+3. Using b+1,4,3 gets you killed.

Meaty 1,1 is also good. The second hit beats throw tech, uppercut, and jumping and is safe versus rolls.
are you saying meaty 1,1 after s4 or after knockdown
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I destroy most opponents. Which is a good thing. But when I win it’s not satisfying. It’s like, I won yeah, but it’s because Scorpion is annoying as fuck to fight against. I want to play footsies and all that shit that I love. Which is why I main 3 characters now. But the 2 other characters I use are pretty boring too. I feel like I’m winning too easily, or I lose because I don’t know the MU. I learn the MU then it’s back to unsatisfying wins. I want to have fun while I’m winning.

Guess I’ll just keep grinding until the DLC comes out. Very excited for every DLC character actually, especially Nightwolf.
You main 3 top 5 type characters (Scorpion/Geras/Jacqui Juggs please) and then say it's getting boring because you're unchallenged lmao! Maybe try a new character(s) that can't do everything combined in the game at elite levels and you'll find more enjoyment or reward from the characters or game brahhh.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
You main 3 top 5 type characters (Scorpion/Geras/Jacqui Juggs please) and then say it's getting boring because you're unchallenged lmao! Maybe try a new character(s) that can't do everything combined in the game at elite levels and you'll find more enjoyment or reward from the characters or game brahhh.
I’m well aware MaltMaker
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
are you saying meaty 1,1 after s4 or after knockdown
After knockdown, use 1,1.

After standing 4, use 2,1, which is +2 on block. 2,1 jails after standing 4 hits, even if you do mini dash.

Also in Searing Rage I have to play incredibly patiently with the life lead. It’s not worth the risk to pressure when you don’t need to since his only true mix is f3/f34/f3 throw stuff.
I agree, but I think Scorpion should be played defensively and patiently in both variations. Excessively relying on teleport mix ups gets you killed as players are punishing teleport better and better each day.
 
You main 3 top 5 type characters (Scorpion/Geras/Jacqui Juggs please) and then say it's getting boring because you're unchallenged lmao! Maybe try a new character(s) that can't do everything combined in the game at elite levels and you'll find more enjoyment or reward from the characters or game brahhh.
After knockdown, use 1,1.

After standing 4, use 2,1, which is +2 on block. 2,1 jails after standing 4 hits, even if you do mini dash.



I agree, but I think Scorpion should be played defensively and patiently in both variations. Excessively relying on teleport mix ups gets you killed as players are punishing teleport better and better each day.
I like playing Scorpion defensively and patiently and get the opportunity to punish.
Against good player it is even more fun as opening people up with Scorpion it is not that easy (excluding tele mixups but I do not use it).

I can not be really bored with that playstyle though. And destorying opponent will show more of an outplay than dirt or luck.
But Scorpion has really good buttons which helps "being good" haha.

So far I could only play that successful patient play with Erron Black but it felt easier.
And probably will try Cassie too.

I was not clicked to Kitana unfortunately - I am not dedicated enough to her. She was too much neutral ONLY. :)
Kabal was fine but too boring.

Still Scorpion is the most fun to me as I can play with him as I want.
Reborn makes me too crazy though but I will wait for 6 months to play with him as I do not want to play against unprepared people.

I will try that 11 on knock down. I do not like -6 on block though.
I guess the 11 is recommended after 112 or 212+4 as after spear there is quite a space and meaty 11 is not really possible.
 
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And another "meaty" lol.
And it pretty much covers every option (probably including jumps into meaty F3 but did not try) for Scorpion into F3 pressure on block wake up.

To me it is pretty kills the fun guessing game so maybe I will skip it as I play Kasuals and with friends anyway.
And it is pretty game breaking if there is really no good option to the opponent.
Fortunately the wake up frames are different for each characters so it might be not that easy to learn againts all characters. But I guess if it is timed for the latest possible wake up to release the block it is still work as rolls happen later.
Scorpion teleport which fast enough to punish rolls in that scenario is pretty digusting (OS into 300 lol).

Fwd throw is the only option against Scorpion in that case I guess.

 
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Matix218

Get over here!
For the standard reborn bnb of (starter), ex teleport, f3, 112 (if you dont want a 11~spear side switch) do you guys have any tricks to the 112 timing on female hitbox characters? I know the whole "f3, 11 spear" timing is different on females as you have a much tighter window to connect 11 after f3 on females but it seems even tighter if you want to hit 112 and not whiff the 2. This is a total non issue on male characters as the timing on male characters is extremely forgiving. Any tips on getting more consistent with the 112 ender on females?
 
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Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
After knockdown, use 1,1.

After standing 4, use 2,1, which is +2 on block. 2,1 jails after standing 4 hits, even if you do mini dash.



I agree, but I think Scorpion should be played defensively and patiently in both variations. Excessively relying on teleport mix ups gets you killed as players are punishing teleport better and better each day.
Yeah 100%. Which I love playing defensively and patiently.

One thing I’ve noticed when Scorpion is full screen or close to it, throwing out spears is a very good option. Because if they just hold down, that means they are at risk to his teleport. So they will have to block the spear sometimes so it’s free chip. And sometimes you get a lucky connection with the spear, which if far enough leads to his KB and massive damage.
 
Yeah 100%. Which I love playing defensively and patiently.

One thing I’ve noticed when Scorpion is full screen or close to it, throwing out spears is a very good option. Because if they just hold down, that means they are at risk to his teleport. So they will have to block the spear sometimes so it’s free chip. And sometimes you get a lucky connection with the spear, which if far enough leads to his KB and massive damage.
Agreed.
Opponent with long recovery projectile might not throw it out to not to get punished by teleport so spear can be free and good projectile outside of punish range. On trade it is not a disaster either (if not Geras lol).

And against Jaqui I also started feeling the power of DS and DS ender.
Full screen to force Jaqui to work her way in and free BS and spear over oki are worth it mid screen. But against her the oki game is strong too.

Against her the DS in neutral is an okayish conditioning tool as well because from max range she can not punish it but with bionic dash but not KB (60 damage vs 30-40 chip) but she is conditioned to be cautious in that range which can help the footsies game as well.

I believe Reborn might be better against jaquie due to escape factor no experience so just theory (bionic dash might be able to punish away tele I did not lab it but still a mixup instead of giving Jaqui guaranteed pressure after B143). I am happy with SR yet at least I can utilize more SR tools.
 
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Matix218

Get over here!
For the standard reborn bnb of (starter), ex teleport, f3, 112 (if you dont want a 11~spear side switch) do you guys have any tricks to the 112 timing on female hitbox characters? I know the whole "f3, 11 spear" timing is different on females as you have a much tighter window to connect 11 after f3 on females but it seems even tighter if you want to hit 112 and not whiff the 2. This is a total non issue on male characters as the timing on male characters is extremely forgiving. Any tips on getting more consistent with the 112 ender on females?
@Hor_PeT @M2Dave @Juggs any tips or tricks for consistency on the above post regarding the different timing for the bnb on female characters (jade, etc)? I have even seen several tournament players (scar included) drop this so I figured I'd ask
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
@Hor_PeT @M2Dave @Juggs any tips or tricks for consistency on the above post regarding the different timing for the bnb on female characters (jade, etc)? I have even seen several tournament players (scar included) drop this so I figured I'd ask
Idk I use Searing Rage. So in this situation I believe I do 21 2+4. Can’t remember in my head, when I get home I’ll see what I do. Most stuff like this is muscle memory so it’s hard to tell people what I do unless I’m in front of the game, lol.
 
@Hor_PeT @M2Dave @Juggs any tips or tricks for consistency on the above post regarding the different timing for the bnb on female characters (jade, etc)? I have even seen several tournament players (scar included) drop this so I figured I'd ask
I already wrote it. It works 100% consistency: F3, dash, 11.

I use it with SR too as it can bait breakaway perfectly (112 vs 11xx spear).

Others may not do the lab work just win CB.