Breakthrough - Cyber Sub-Zero CSZ Nerfs

[Invincible Salads]

Goddamnit NRS

ya done gone an nuked the fucking fridge

time to bail out guys

 

[The Abbot]

not everyone is well-known breh

Maybe you don't get what I am saying. If this is such an injustice, why haven't those top players said anything?
Not taking away anything from anyone and yes... I know you're a great player Friction. I've been around since Mk9.
Just saying those people have a louder voice to NRS than the average Triborg player.

 

[SaltShaker]

Maybe you don't get what I am saying. If this is such in an injustice, why haven't those top players said anything?
Not taking away anything from anyone and yes... I know you're a great player Friction. I've been around since Mk9.
Just saying those people have a louder voice to NRS than the average Triborg player.

To be honest, some top players do complain about many of the same things, but stay politically correct and do it privately. There are some that do not care what others or the makers may think about their displeasure like Pig or Brady for example, but most try to stay on the "good side" so to speak of their image when discussing the game. I won't say who, but I've seen certain high level players utterly bash aspects that they claim to be "neutral" on or "don't have an issue with" when talking online.

 

[Kindred]

So after playing him against other ppl...I'm done. Unless they release a patch to fix this, but until then, I'm done with this character. Went from Cyber Sub Zero to Cyber Frustration.
I used to play Ermac and Cyber Sub in MK9 and right now, MK9 Cyber sub is actually better than this piece of shit.
Fuck whoever said OK to this.
I'm sticking with Ermac....at least i can do overhead starting combos that lead to 40% meterless.

 

[JORGIE]

So after playing him against other ppl...I'm done. Unless they release a patch to fix this, but until then, I'm done with this character. Went from Cyber Sub Zero to Cyber Frustration.
I used to play Ermac and Cyber Sub in MK9 and right now, MK9 Cyber sub is actually better than this piece of shit.
Fuck whoever said OK to this.
I'm sticking with Ermac....at least i can do overhead starting combos that lead to 40% meterless.

What's crazy is that I told my friend those same exact words earlier. Even unsafe ass Ermac seems God tier next to this character. No dirt in this game compares to how dirty they did cyber sub

 

[John the Savage]

Cyber sub might honest to God be the worst character in the game now.

 

[DDutchguy]

Cyber sub might honest to God be the worst character in the game now.

He definitely seems down there. But in theory you just have all of this stuff to work with. B2 is a great feint, F2 has amazing range, iceball gives you full combos, divekick gives him great mobility, bombs can give you hard to blockables... But when you go into a match and use it you feel so naked.

 

[Killphil]

He definitely seems down there. But in theory you just have all of this stuff to work with. B2 is a great feint, F2 has amazing range, iceball gives you full combos, divekick gives him great mobility, bombs can give you hard to blockables... But when you go into a match and use it you feel so naked.

He can be a training mode god. Jaqui was getting lonely.

 

[14K]

He can be a training mode god. Jaqui was getting lonely.

not even in training mode he is fun to me anymroe... everytime i pick him up, i start swearing and wanting to throw stuff around... ill pass

 

[_xFriction]

Maybe you don't get what I am saying. If this is such an injustice, why haven't those top players said anything?
Not taking away anything from anyone and yes... I know you're a great player Friction. I've been around since Mk9.
Just saying those people have a louder voice to NRS than the average Triborg player.

thanx for clarifying. i wasnt really talking about me.

nice fuckin avatar man, i had that on my first hitbox

 

[Youphemism]

Ok come on now the overreacting on purpose is a tiresome gag, he's not the worst character in the game. He did get torn a new ass but he's not Bo Rai Cho. NOONE IS AS BAD AS BO RAI CHO. AT LEAST CSZ HAS MOBILITY AND SAFETY AND MIXUPS THAT AREN'T (that) GIMMICKY.

God...playing Bo makes me salty. And they fucking NERFED HIM.

But yeah, CSZ != worst character in the game for a few reasons:
1. HE'S A VARIATION WHY CAN'T TYM GET SIMPLE TERMINOLOGY RIGHT AFTER A YEAR
2. Bo Rai Cho is and always will be worse
3. Although he now has to spend more meter than before and his damage is pretty much laughable territory thanks to the multiple handfuls of damage scaling thrust upon us he's still playable, just worse. He still has his mixups, meterless plus frames (although I know, gaps, but they're there for baiting), mobility and space control.

But I am in no way justifying these nerfs, they were terrible nerfs and the changes were approached terribly. It astounds me that after almost 5 years they still can't spot the obvious solutions to problems.

 

[ZigZag]

we should flood their facebook with messages so they either fix this mistake or fire the moron responsible for this decision before fixing the mistake

As upset over his nerf train I am no one should be fired for making a character shit.
That's a mans lively hood bruv.... chill.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

He definitely seems down there. But in theory you just have all of this stuff to work with. B2 is a great feint, F2 has amazing range, iceball gives you full combos, divekick gives him great mobility, bombs can give you hard to blockables... But when you go into a match and use it you feel so naked.

his snowball is now like GM's except he has no clone to throw it out from behind

How often do you see Cryomancers getting many full combos from it?

Ok come on now the overreacting on purpose is a tiresome gag, he's not the worst character in the game. He did get torn a new ass but he's not Bo Rai Cho. NOONE IS AS BAD AS BO RAI CHO. AT LEAST CSZ HAS MOBILITY AND SAFETY AND MIXUPS THAT AREN'T (that) GIMMICKY.

God...playing Bo makes me salty. And they fucking NERFED HIM.

But yeah, CSZ != worst character in the game for a few reasons:
1. HE'S A VARIATION WHY CAN'T TYM GET SIMPLE TERMINOLOGY RIGHT AFTER A YEAR
2. Bo Rai Cho is and always will be worse
3. Although he now has to spend more meter than before and his damage is pretty much laughable territory thanks to the multiple handfuls of damage scaling thrust upon us he's still playable, just worse. He still has his mixups, meterless plus frames (although I know, gaps, but they're there for baiting), mobility and space control.

But I am in no way justifying these nerfs, they were terrible nerfs and the changes were approached terribly. It astounds me that after almost 5 years they still can't spot the obvious solutions to problems.

he got his own character forum so he counts as a character

which is irrelevant anyway as he is both the worst character AND the worst variation in the game

Hes much worse than Bo and you are kidding yourself

he gets like 25% for a bar, non hitconfirmable off his mix-up and punishable on block

he DOES have mobility and space control. both made to now be full combo punishable on block. and thats what hes got. everyone with a slide or Divekick has that tho.

 

[RiBBz22]

Basically a bunch of nerfing in order to make sure the character wasn't too good...disregarding the idea that they may be too much.

I don't understand the details as to why they stop patch support after only a year, but whatever the reasoning, given the history of NRS DLC, they're trying not to end up with overbearing DLC characters.

Then don't release 4 characters when you plan to abandon support for the game in 30 days... If this is the reasoning it is unacceptable.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

He had the fairest "HTB" ever so much that it doesn't even fit the description compared to what it usually describes. Quan's and Cyrax's you were FORCED to block and try make a 1 frame block link, and it was also a 50/50 which came first. Cyber Subs went the same way everytime, and if Cyber Sub timed his to be as hard to block as possible then you could just wake up jab right out of it, if he went for it fast enough to stuff wake ups then it was no longer even close to a 1f block link. Regardless, both options were armorable, and both options were beatable by delayed wake up which made the block link not even a hard one. He doesn't even have it anymore but Quan still has his everytime he wants to spend the same 1 bar that we need to use just to COMBO in the first place

You were not forced to block cyrax's mixups, if he tried to go for b3d4 htb, there is no mixup, if he did ex buzzsaw into net, b2 low bomb one has no mixup and it is also backdash-able and armor-able and i'm talking about pre-patch here. I respect your opinion about cyber sub but you're just spreading mis-information about cyrax.

The only one you're FORCED to block is b3d4 UNLESS you have armor.

 

[14K]

Ok come on now the overreacting on purpose is a tiresome gag, he's not the worst character in the game. He did get torn a new ass but he's not Bo Rai Cho. NOONE IS AS BAD AS BO RAI CHO. AT LEAST CSZ HAS MOBILITY AND SAFETY AND MIXUPS THAT AREN'T (that) GIMMICKY.

God...playing Bo makes me salty. And they fucking NERFED HIM.

But yeah, CSZ != worst character in the game for a few reasons:
1. HE'S A VARIATION WHY CAN'T TYM GET SIMPLE TERMINOLOGY RIGHT AFTER A YEAR
2. Bo Rai Cho is and always will be worse
3. Although he now has to spend more meter than before and his damage is pretty much laughable territory thanks to the multiple handfuls of damage scaling thrust upon us he's still playable, just worse. He still has his mixups, meterless plus frames (although I know, gaps, but they're there for baiting), mobility and space control.

But I am in no way justifying these nerfs, they were terrible nerfs and the changes were approached terribly. It astounds me that after almost 5 years they still can't spot the obvious solutions to problems.

Cant speak for Bo rai Cho i never tried nor do i pretend to know anything about him, The problem with this nerfs in specific is that some of them are warrented others are just plain overreations and poor lack of judgement, (trying very hard to stay polite this time around lol) But most of all This nerfs sucked the fun out of the character atleast for me... Ill be perfectly honest and as lil biased as i can be atm, here is what im ok with and what i think should have been changed and still have this character be fair and usable.

1. B2 OH : make it that its hit advantage would be low enouth that it wouldnt combo into normal fireball, you had to burn meter to use it

2.Keep his Iceball speed the same as before: this is a non chip projectile / there is no risk for the opponent to block and push forward / and ther are plenty of teleport chars and/or ways around it... it didnt deserve the nerf

3. Make dive kick on block compelitly punishable, i totally agree with this, you should not be able to dive kick around like a retard...i actually wanted from the get go that dive kicks got super - frames super fine with this change..

4. Damage nerf was not necessary... he barely broke 30% meterless but adding an extra 2-4% scaling is just to freaking much....

5. This change i still think its unnecessary a good player could always punish Iceball on Block its -13 for god sake but for crying sake i would add couple frames more..

6. i would make 11 or 111 to be +2 on block and make 21 -5 ( in essence switch their block frame data) why this change? 11 and 111 are his only semi decent pressure strings in neutral for you to have to use meter in his overhead you would need a 11/111 string that provides some kind of + frames to bait out moves or mix the opponent up.

7. standing 3 should have its hit advantage slightly nerfed, i also agree with this

8. Make Ex Ice Ball -9 on block and if Drone buffed have a bit of push back

9. add a couple + frames to F12 if Drone Buffed, talking about something like 1 2 more frames not much...

There are a couple more changes i would do but i wont go any further this sumes it up just fine... If this character had a Armored Launcher similar to Kung Laos and etc... i would see some of this nerfs to be warranted... if he had 11 pressure anywhere close to Johnny cage or Kano or Jax again i could see this being necessary if he had vortexs/ HTB that couldnt be poked or armored out i could totally be ok with some of this changes... but pre patch he lacked all of this... and now he lacks everything else as well... Is he playable, totally he is still in the game so anyone can pick hi up... is it worth it is he anywhere near the lvl of being a competetive Variation? No, not even close...

 

[The_Tile]

I'm not sold at all on CSZ being the worst in the game, but to put it into perspective I was having a very hard time dealing with a balanced Kenshi earlier.

From full screen i was actually getting outzoned. Iceball was just too slow to throw out and trade with teleflurry, even on whiff. Bombs were good for getting him to move a little, but at the end of the day I ended up throwing out full screen slides to get in, which is risky, as DK was getting beat out by teleflurry or shoulder charge.

Then when i finally did get in he was just poking after minus frames and I couldn't really do much about it. I couldn't punish ExRK properly unless I had meter for ExIceball. I had to guess on his wakeup after a corner setup because tech roll into jab, jump or throw seem to beat b3 clean after a bomb setup.

I'm hoping we find something that changes things but the more I play the more bleak things are looking. If im having trouble with Balanced Kenshi I'm scared to see how he'll fair vs the top tiers now.

 

[RiBBz22]

I'm not sold at all on CSZ being the worst in the game, but to put it into perspective I was having a very hard time dealing with a balanced Kenshi earlier.

From full screen i was actually getting outzoned. Iceball was just too slow to throw out and trade with teleflurry, even on whiff. Bombs were good for getting him to move a little, but at the end of the day I ended up throwing out full screen slides to get in, which is risky, as DK was getting beat out by teleflurry or shoulder charge.

Then when i finally did get in he was just poking after minus frames and I couldn't really do much about it. I couldn't punish ExRK properly unless I had meter for ExIceball. I had to guess on his wakeup after a corner setup because tech roll into jab, jump or throw seem to beat b3 clean after a bomb setup.

I'm hoping we find something that changes things but the more I play the more bleak things are looking. If im having trouble with Balanced Kenshi I'm scared to see how he'll fair vs the top tiers now.

U are wasting ur time. Trust me, he is RIP in his current state.

 

[The_Tile]

What does the community think about the DE Iceball retaining it's old properties and non DE stays the same?

This idea just popped into my head and wouldn't be a bad compromise of NRS really deem his old iceball too OP.

 

[14K]

What does the community think about the DE Iceball retaining it's old properties and non DE stays the same?

This idea just popped into my head and wouldn't be a bad compromise of NRS really deem his old iceball too OP.

Ahhhh wait what? you really think NRS gives 2 piles of dog crap about anything this community has to offer other than its money? At any point someone couldv come out and said hey guys look this is not final we are testing we are always working to impruve the game, let the changes run its course and see what comes of it right? at any point someone from NRS could ease our worries and explain atleast why some of this changes where made... Some poor fello ( Sorry, on phone so cant really go back and check your name, my bad ) even tagged PPJ and 16 Bit and colt in here to talk and im very sure they checked thsi thread and read some of it and didnt say a word... Bro i get where your coming from but they have the butter and the knife in their hand they dont have the give satisfactions to anyone... let alone some dudes on some internet forum... So sorry my friend i am...

 

[Kindred]

As upset over his nerf train I am no one should be fired for making a character shit.
That's a mans lively hood bruv.... chill.

I agree. He should be fired, thrown in prison for a few years, then he can have his job back. Everyone wins.

 

[Kindred]

I'm not sold at all on CSZ being the worst in the game, but to put it into perspective I was having a very hard time dealing with a balanced Kenshi earlier.

From full screen i was actually getting outzoned. Iceball was just too slow to throw out and trade with teleflurry, even on whiff. Bombs were good for getting him to move a little, but at the end of the day I ended up throwing out full screen slides to get in, which is risky, as DK was getting beat out by teleflurry or shoulder charge.

Then when i finally did get in he was just poking after minus frames and I couldn't really do much about it. I couldn't punish ExRK properly unless I had meter for ExIceball. I had to guess on his wakeup after a corner setup because tech roll into jab, jump or throw seem to beat b3 clean after a bomb setup.

I'm hoping we find something that changes things but the more I play the more bleak things are looking. If im having trouble with Balanced Kenshi I'm scared to see how he'll fair vs the top tiers now.

This is why I dropped him. Cyber frustration is what he is now.
You have to work 5 times harder to beat someone who is not as good as you. It's fucking dumb. Might as well pick up a better character, save yourself the frustration

 

[Error404]

Honestly they should revert everything and just make ice ball very bad on whiff and block. No amount of set play and mobility can make up for no mids and bad ranged game.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

You were not forced to block cyrax's mixups, if he tried to go for b3d4 htb, there is no mixup, if he did ex buzzsaw into net, b2 low bomb one has no mixup and it is also backdash-able and armor-able and i'm talking about pre-patch here. I respect your opinion about cyber sub but you're just spreading mis-information about cyrax.

The only one you're FORCED to block is b3d4 UNLESS you have armor.

what exactly was this then


http://testyourmight.com/threads/just-frame-hard-to-blockable-looping-vortex.59144/


when i tested it i got it so it couldnt be backdashed or armored either so dont try to tell me it didnt

 

[_xFriction]

man this is bad. the opponent has nothing to fear, let alone respect.

like seriously. gonna soldier on tho, fuck you guys