Breakthrough - Cyber Sub-Zero CSZ Nerfs

[The_Tile]

What?!? Really? I could swear it was mid. Ok nvm that sucks

Nah, it looks like a mid but unfortunately it's a high. CSZ is in a pretty bad place right now, unlike normal Sub who is high tier at worst. I don't think the comparison makes that much sense.

 

[14K]

If they leave the game in this state, and im not even solely talking in relation to CZ0, this game/NRS will continue to fail in bringing the comunity to love this games well over their dying time... Capcom will continue to dominate the market and the viewer base on streams. At tornaments ppl will just doze off when MK comes, all i see is the same old tired characters over and over and over again... even i that "love" this game doze off and only skim thru the matchs to know what happened... I really hope this patch was not their last hurrah because ESL3 will be the most sad and pathetic lil event ever..

 

[RiBBz22]

Csz f13 is high low advancing
Sz 12 is high low advancing
I know at least pre patch cyber was hitting more damage midscreen easily
Sz has some of the slowest pokes in the game I don't know where u getting fastest from?!?
Sz f4 would be compared to csz f2
Neither nets big damage but f2 is a great half screen reaching mid , sz has nothing even close to that

Go home man, you are drunk.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Csz f13 is high low advancing
Sz 12 is high low advancing
I know at least pre patch cyber was hitting more damage midscreen easily
Sz has some of the slowest pokes in the game I don't know where u getting fastest from?!?
Sz f4 would be compared to csz f2
Neither nets big damage but f2 is a great half screen reaching mid , sz has nothing even close to that

Sub-Zero's S1 is an advancing high? Ah ok I didn't realise

It's his BEST advancing string? Didn't realise that either

see how this comparison is terrible?



"Sz f4 would be compared to csz f2 "
except SZ's F4 cancels into combo meterless with Iceball, and hitconfirms into combo for a bar with F42.

See how this comparison is terrible?

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Oh and while we're on it, you guys are welcome to join the human Sub-Zero clan

 

[I GOT HANDS]

The 2 is the advancing part don't play dumb

before you call anyone dumb you should stop and remember that you are saying CSZ's F12 is the equivalent of regular Sub's 21 string simply because they both hit high then low, and then stop and think if maybe it is time to question how much you really know about this game

 

[Kindred]

@boba_buster

I dont play SZ but if he's as bad as you say, then they should buff him or make him competitive.
I hate this fucking ideology that "well my character sucks so it's ok if yours got nerfed to shit too"
Fuck that, if a character has some glaring issues, he should get fixed, not bring other characters to his shit level.

As it stood, nobody was seriously complaining about triborg's CSZ variation to warrant such a fucking idiotic nerf of his tools. YES certain things needed to be nerfed, like DK being punishable always but to the point of removing his BnBs, decreasing his damage AND making non-hitting moves scale damage. Like he wasn't fucking God tier, he was never in any competitions and he was out for 2 weeks.

There is nothing anybody can say to justify this level of idiocy. I dont care how handicapped other characters are, CSZ was really not an issue and if someone was having difficulty, then MAYBE, just MAYBE, it had to do with the fact that he was out for ONLY 2 weeks.

(Sorry im still fucking salty over the dumb nerfs)

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Im jus saying , their both a high low advancing string , granted I don't play csz , I do play smoke a lot , and I didn't call you dumb , I said playing. But hey what ever y'all wants guys , smoke cloud combos from f13 so I'm happy
I think it's fair that sz and csz both share a shitty slow ice ball that's all.
And I'm srry if I hurt your feelings HANDS , your actually one of my favorite posters here on tym, so by all means , I wasn't trying to insult you

Come on man there's not really anything fair about these nerfs. CSZ should have q better ice ball because he can't throw it from behind a clone and honestly at this point Grandmaster is better than CSZ in every way but mobility.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

What about cryo and unbreakable dankster? Oh that's right we forgot about them already ... Rip

Fair enough. Id still wager that Cryomancer is better than CSZ.

 

[DDutchguy]

Noooooooooo way dude , doesn't csz still have corner shenanigans ? Or was that ppl in denial? Csz still has better neutral tools than cryo , even being a high that f2 is a tool cryo doesn't have anything like

Cyber Sub is really hard to play while Cryomancer is brain dead as fuck though.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Noooooooooo way dude , doesn't csz still have corner shenanigans ? Or was that ppl in denial? Csz still has better neutral tools than cryo , even being a high that f2 is a tool cryo doesn't have anything like

Cryomancer is gonna out damage, outpoke, and is just more solid overall. And no the corner isn't the same anymore. And he does less damage. Cryomancer isn't a bad character at all, he just isn't great. Mid tier if ever there was one. CSZ has the worst damage in the game and is arguably bottom 5.

 

[SaltShaker]

doesn't csz still have corner shenanigans ?

No.

 

[DDutchguy]

No.

Well that's not entirely true. He has bomb setups still (not 100% guaranteed but hey it still counts) and can make those pretty difficult to block, not to mention it gives him a safe meterless way to convert a 50/50 into a full combo.

His damage is total arse however, which kind of offsets the whole thing.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

 

[DDutchguy]

That's what you get when someone named SaltShaker gets saltier than he's ever been

 

[SaltShaker]

Well that's not entirely true. He has bomb setups still (not 100% guaranteed but hey it still counts) and can make those pretty difficult to block, not to mention it gives him a safe meterless way to convert a 50/50 into a full combo.

His damage is total arse however, which kind of offsets the whole thing.

He doesn't have "bomb setups" anymore. He has "drop a bomb and get full combo'd by a S1 if you follow up, or drop a bomb and hope they don't know the MU" setups. There's no reason for them to respect anything after F2 bomb. Far screen you can go for some stuff, but I wouldn't consider that "bomb setups".

 

[Alright RyRy]

Went from the best, to the worst. GGs.

#NotTournamentViableKillingMachine

 

[SaltShaker]

That's what you get when someone named SaltShaker gets saltier than he's ever been

This much is the absolute godlike truth lol.

 

[DDutchguy]

He doesn't have "bomb setups" anymore. He has "drop a bomb and get full combo'd by a S1 if you follow up, or drop a bomb and hope they don't know the MU" setups. There's no reason for them to respect anything after F2 bomb. Far screen you can go for some stuff, but I wouldn't consider that "bomb setups".

Was more talking about 213~bomb or 212~bomb.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Im jus saying , their both a high low advancing string , granted I don't play csz , I do play smoke a lot , and I didn't call you dumb , I said playing. But hey what ever y'all wants guys , smoke cloud combos from f13 so I'm happy
I think it's fair that sz and csz both share a shitty slow ice ball that's all.
And I'm srry if I hurt your feelings HANDS , your actually one of my favorite posters here on tym, so by all means , I wasn't trying to insult you

I'm not hurting lol but I'm frustrated with this community, the first step to getting something changed is recognizing its broke, the people arguing he's fine is just ridiculous

both strings might hit high and low, but 12 doesn't advance until the second hit giving it COMPLETELY different utility to what CSZ's F13 is used for, you can't honestly think that a move with advancing properties in the middle of the string gets used the same way?

F13 is his best advancing, comparing it to a button thats generally only able to be used as an advancing from behind the clone is just ridiculous, you'd need to compare it your best advancing F42.

The thing is, the slower Iceball has completely different practically on CSZ than it does on Cyber Sub. What if all of a sudden, B2 no longer launched and needed to be cancelled into EX Iceball to combo and without being able to hitconfirm (yet still being punishable), B33 was made full combo punishable even without cancelling into Iceball, and B12/F4 not only no longer connected Iceball without meter but DIDN'T EXIST and were taken away from the character? just comparing it to a string with completely different practicality makes absolutely no sense, sure 21 hits high then low, but it isn't an advancing opener it just has an advancing low hit in the second hit, and he DOES NOT rely on it in the neutral like CSZ did with his strings, so just saying "but these two strings are similar so the same changes should be applied to both" is really fallacious logic for that aspect of the character alone. Then remembering that they you are comparing two COMPLETELY different characters, there is no blanket "apply this here so its the same" every character has different strengths and weaknesses. For what you are arguing you may as well say Ermac's shouldn't be able to put his Soul Ball out in 15f nor should it hit mid, since it's functionally the same. But where is Ermac's Soul Clone? They are functionally different characters, and you are comparing a top tier character in GM to literally the worst character in the game in CSZ, so please let's stop this ridiculous debate because you are even close to being on the money with anything you've said

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I'm not really disagreeing with you , I'm just trying to make the point that sub should have that too , he has no mix up into iceball , you keep talking bout GM but I'm talking about cryo and unbreakable , they need that every bit as much as csz , u really think csz is lower tier than unbreakable? C'mon man. 12xxiceball would be just the neutral tool they need to make them viable. I think csz should have f13xxiceball , jus like I think sub should have 12 iceball , that's all I'm saying , fuck for that matter keep gm's slow and speed up the other 3's. And f42 doesn't combo into iceball either so that's a moot point comparing it to f13 anyway

the fuck? B3 / B2 isn't a mix-up anymore?

I used to MAIN Unbreakable and there is absolutely no way he is worse than CSZ. Just stop. You want your characters buffed fine but its got absolutely no relevance on what tools CSZ has

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Neither b3 or b2 combo into iceball meterless ! That's what I'm talking about

waaaaaat

B33 combo's meterless midscreen against all females, and combos universally in the corner, and on block is not only safe, but sets you up a Clone

Why is B2 not combo'ing into Iceball meterless a bad thing? You would literally be WAY more punishable and have a much less damage corner game if you did....


just stop, you cannot be this bad, and its all irrelevant to CSZ anyway

 

[boba_buster]

B33 ice ball safe? What?!? Ok I'm out

 

[I GOT HANDS]

B33 ice ball safe? What?!? Ok I'm out

holy shit, next level ignorance right here. If you don't know how to make B3 safe vs practically everyone, then you probably shouldn't be asking for buffs yet. Protip: its not by cancelling into Iceball.

 

[boba_buster]

holy shit, next level ignorance right here. If you don't know how to make B3 safe vs practically everyone, then you probably shouldn't be asking for buffs yet. Protip: its not by cancelling into Iceball.

Yea like I said f13xxsmoke cloud connects - I'm good peace out