Breakthrough - Cyber Sub-Zero CSZ Nerfs

[I GOT HANDS]

He's fine.

you really are terrible at this

 

[14K]

I actually feared his freeze, but not so much now. I'm pretty sad by this cause the freeze ball made me respect his neutral.

Not only that its a non Chip high projectile, its a launcher sure, but any decent player would just inch their way in, but scrubs try to charge in get frozen and recked and then come to forums saying his God tier... go figure han

 

[I GOT HANDS]

OK
I am a Cyrax Main:

but i dabble with Cyber Sub Zero, and my Brother mained him.

CSZ

has horrible midscreen now, and what he shines from is Corner game.

the problem is he has no viable options in the neutral

not quite. His corner game is one of the worst in MKX now. His midscreen is the best thing about the character, abusing F2 connects and trying to keep up a field of bombs and catching them off guard with a divekick or an iceball. Still, it's nothing special.

 

[Apex Kano]

Not only that its a non Chip high projectile, its a launcher sure, but any decent player would just inch their way in, but scrubs try to charge in get frozen and recked and then come to forums saying his God tier... go figure han

Instead of this site teaching others how to combat it. We are worst the the offical MK forums. Asking for nerfs, should be the last thing we do here. I became a member of this site cause I believed at first it was hardcore only crowd. Seems like i was mistaken.

 

[14K]

Instead of this site teaching others how to combat it. We are worst the the offical MK forums. Asking for nerfs, should be the last thing we do here. I became a member of this site cause I believed at first it was hardcore only crowd. Seems like i was mistaken.

Oh but the philosophy not only of this site but this community is pretty much as follows: "if i dont play it, it needs to be nerfed to oblivion so i dont have trouble fighting it!..." Im truly sorry bro... But here there are a lot of good ppl that will def. tell you how it is and try to help you get better and learn what your game is lacking, then there are others that are lazy so its easier to ask for something to be nerfed and to take time learning it...

 

[SeanTheGaymer]

@SeanTheGaymer http://www.thepetitionsite.com/397/260/113/fix-triborg-in-mkxl/#sign <--- Sign that petition to fix it

I signed it! Why did they do that to him they should do it to sub zero aswell and scorpion especially his annoying cancels!

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Anything you think will bring it to their attention I'll do. As long as it's logical, I'll do it. Do they come on this site?

Rarely and they view TYM as a salt mine, so any tag is worth it, as long as it gets them to come into the cave

 

[ThePunisher026]

There are some things that us players feel were truly an unnecessary downgrade. Let's take a look at Triborg's overall downgrade.
Triborg – FP is now +12 on hit (down from 19)
Triborg – FP,FP is now +9 on hit (down from 19)
Triborg – FP,FP,FP is now +15 on hit (down from 17)
Triborg – Towards+FP is now +13 on hit (down from 20)
Triborg – BP is now +14 on hit (down from 19)
Triborg – Towards+FK is now +15 on hit (down from 20)
Triborg – BP,FP is now +17 on hit (down from 24)
Triborg – BP,FP,FK is now -1 on block (down from -6)
Triborg – FK is now +12 on hit (down from 29)
Triborg – Away+FK now has 15 startup frames (up from 11)
Triborg – Down+FK is now +12 on hit (down from 18)
Triborg – BK is now +12 on hit (down from 17)
A lot of that is just reducing his frames to mainly make him more punishable. So far, I honestly have no complaint. Players shouldn't be able to just freely toss out what they want unless it's fullscreen anyway in my honest opinion.
Triborg (Cyber Sub-Zero) – Towards+BP will no longer sometimes be missing it’s hit regions when canceled into from a run
Triborg (Cyber Sub-Zero) – reduced the stun frames on Ice Ball by 13
Triborg (Cyber Sub-Zero) – doing Drone summon while in a combo adds some combo damage scaling
Triborg (Cyber Sub-Zero) – doing Dive Kick while in a combo adds some combo damage scaling
Triborg (Cyber Sub-Zero) – Ice Ball now has 26 startup frames (up from 21)
Now this is what makes no sense to me. Clearly the character was slowed down, but now in order to do midscreen combos regarding the ice ball, you have to spend a bar of meter. Let's try conserving meter against characters
The big deal here is, there are a lot of characters that people already have trouble going against such as Kung Lao/Tempest, D'Vorah/Swarm Queen, Johnny Cage/A-List, Liu Kang/Dragon's Fire etc. If a character gets pressured, we have 3 choices.
1 - Guess correctly
2 - Respond with an EX move that has armor and hopefully starts up fast enough to interrupt the pressure.
3 - Use a breaker.
By forcing Cyber Sub users to burn meter just to get the combos we want to work, it almost leaves us with the 1 option of guessing correctly.
If he's already easier to punish, why make it harder to combo? All of that mostly comes from reducing the ice ball start up. So now, Cyber Sub Zero is easy to punish, is almost forced to have little meter, and his combos only connect against CERTAIN characters. Comboing from an overhead is impossible to do without once again spending a bar of meter. His only overhead attack is B1 (back 1) and you can enhance it to freeze them in place. It's so hard to get a good offense going with Cyber Sub without meter.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

There are some things that us players feel were truly an unnecessary downgrade. Let's take a look at Triborg's overall downgrade.
Triborg – FP is now +12 on hit (down from 19)
Triborg – FP,FP is now +9 on hit (down from 19)
Triborg – FP,FP,FP is now +15 on hit (down from 17)
Triborg – Towards+FP is now +13 on hit (down from 20)
Triborg – BP is now +14 on hit (down from 19)
Triborg – Towards+FK is now +15 on hit (down from 20)
Triborg – BP,FP is now +17 on hit (down from 24)
Triborg – BP,FP,FK is now -1 on block (down from -6)
Triborg – FK is now +12 on hit (down from 29)
Triborg – Away+FK now has 15 startup frames (up from 11)
Triborg – Down+FK is now +12 on hit (down from 18)
Triborg – BK is now +12 on hit (down from 17)
A lot of that is just reducing his frames to mainly make him more punishable. So far, I honestly have no complaint. Players shouldn't be able to just freely toss out what they want unless it's fullscreen anyway in my honest opinion.
Triborg (Cyber Sub-Zero) – Towards+BP will no longer sometimes be missing it’s hit regions when canceled into from a run
Triborg (Cyber Sub-Zero) – reduced the stun frames on Ice Ball by 13
Triborg (Cyber Sub-Zero) – doing Drone summon while in a combo adds some combo damage scaling
Triborg (Cyber Sub-Zero) – doing Dive Kick while in a combo adds some combo damage scaling
Triborg (Cyber Sub-Zero) – Ice Ball now has 26 startup frames (up from 21)
Now this is what makes no sense to me. Clearly the character was slowed down, but now in order to do midscreen combos regarding the ice ball, you have to spend a bar of meter. Let's try conserving meter against characters
The big deal here is, there are a lot of characters that people already have trouble going against such as Kung Lao/Tempest, D'Vorah/Swarm Queen, Johnny Cage/A-List, Liu Kang/Dragon's Fire Mileena etc. If a character gets pressured, we have 3 choices.
1 - Guess correctly
2 - Respond with an EX move that has armor and hopefully starts up fast enough to interrupt the pressure.
3 - Use a breaker.
4 - Backdash
By forcing Cyber Sub users to burn meter just to get the combos we want to work, it almost leaves us with the 1 option of guessing correctly.
If he's already easier to punish, why make it harder to combo? All of that mostly comes from reducing the ice ball start up. So now, Cyber Sub Zero is easy to punish, is almost forced to have little meter, and his combos only connect against CERTAIN characters. Comboing from an overhead is impossible to do without once again spending a bar of meter. His only overhead attack is B1 (back 1) and you can enhance it to freeze them in place. It's so hard to get a good offense going with Cyber Sub without meter.

i use B2 as a very viable OH, when i use the mixup game of F13 into F131 i can usually get a safe ice bomb setup after conditioning them to block.

even though B2 is 29 startup, its only half that after the first half and can be canceled into any special he has. you can set bomb, slide for a very quick unreactible low. and if you set bomb in corner u can slide or oh and get a pressure loop. you can also throw a freeze off the B2 as well.

this creates a guess game for your opponent.

yes i think they should have made his recovery on the freeze 5 frames longer instead of the startup so his combos would stay intact. but i am just letting you know, how i have been finding success with his current options as of late.

 

[ThePunisher026]

i use B2 as a very viable OH, when i use the mixup game of F13 into F131 i can usually get a safe ice bomb setup after conditioning them to block.

even though B2 is 29 startup, its only half that after the first half and can be canceled into any special he has. you can set bomb, slide for a very quick unreactible low. and if you set bomb in corner u can slide or oh and get a pressure loop. you can also throw a freeze off the B2 as well.

this creates a guess game for your opponent.

yes i think they should have made his recovery on the freeze 5 frames longer instead of the startup so his combos would stay intact. but i am just letting you know, how i have been finding success with his current options as of late.

I'll check that out

 

[Kindred]

Fuckin 3 pages for the pinned combo thread...That's what happens when a good character is neutered for obscure reasons. Fucking maddening.

 

[RetribuZion14]

If you feel like losing all the damn time against anyone with a brain.

Ignorance is what comes to mind when reading your post...CSZ can still be ruthless and any top notch player will tell you that. Was online last night for a few hours with a few friends that are tourney class and after re-working him a little and changing things up,I can still pull 41% corner combos, decent mid-screens and beat the shit outa the best of em. Ya his ice ball up+5 frames from 21 and f13 setup gone, dive kick punishable, blah blah, blah, blah.etc. My point is quit bitching and adjust because we've all got a better chance of hitting the lottery than getting a 21 frame ice ball back...that's just the way it is...CSZ IS STILL THE SHIT, just re-learn how to use him. Still vicious in the corner, can zone, neutral not the best, not gonna argue with anyone there but hey, life's never perfect!