Scorpion Matchup Discussion Thread

[Slips]

I meant the block infinite actually, I dont know anybody who can perform this block infinite well, so I am curious about the properties, can you use ex spear to check kabal? same for JC, there are cases were I EX speared him out of the frame traps but there are also cases he would just catch me with his attacks.

BTW is takedown safe on block against ermac? he cant lift you after blocking it?

Its not a block infinite anymore. If you want my honest opionion his rush down with his dash cancels are overrated. You can d1 or jump out of his dash cancel strings now. I don't recommend using ex spear because your right it tends to whiff at point blank range.

Takedown is completely safe now.

 

[Big Pampering]

Its not a block infinite anymore. If you want my honest opionion his rush down with his dash cancels are overrated. You can d1 or jump out of his dash cancel strings now. I don't recommend using ex spear because your right it tends to whiff at point blank range.

Takedown is completely safe now.

okay thanks, I thought people were punishing me after a blocked takedown, maybe its because im not blocking on time.

 

[Metzos]

I haven't met anyone who can react to hellfire on reaction. There are people that react to first movement and jump or teleport, so I use feints to bait people into doing so and punish accordingly. If you get too predictable with levitate I can tp to catch you out of the air and put you in a vortex. I agree doing ex tp within tkp range is silly, I meant as a full screen option, my bad. Within tkp range Scorp has would use ex spear like you said or ex takedown as a safer option if we are talking about burning meter. Its playing out just like I said, every counter you have for Scorpion I have one for Ermac, its the essence of a 5-5 match.

I agree Ermac is strongest when he has his opponent cornered, but thats not just Scorpion specific, thats just Ermac at his best. Thats like me saying Scorpion beats Ermac because you can't escape my vortex. It has nothing to do with the match-up.

True. But. Its all about fuzzy guard to deal against the vortex. I m not saying that its easy (personally me i cant do it yet consistentaly, still trying to perfect it ). About the levitate yeah you can tp in reaction if someone uses it 24/7. Its the way around like hellfire. I m not saying Scorpion isnt a solid character but he has very high risk mixups, with high rewards ofc, but still... high risk. One mistake and 35% of your life is gone against Ermac. Still you have a point though. Thnx for sharing Slips.

 

[Slips]

True. But. Its all about fuzzy guard to deal against the vortex. I m not saying that its easy (personally me i cant do it yet consistentaly, still trying to perfect it ). About the levitate yeah you can tp in reaction if someone uses it 24/7. Its the way around like hellfire. I m not saying Scorpion isnt a solid character but he has very high risk mixups, with high rewards ofc, but still... high risk. One mistake and 35% of your life is gone against Ermac. Still you have a point though. Thnx for sharing Slips.

Fuzzy guarding Scorp's 50/50 is a fallacy. I've never come across anyone that can block it consistanty. f4 and b2 are literally a difference of 1 frame. So its already a just frame to do in the first place. Take into account the different height you can land your jip punch with to mess up any fuzzy guarding attempts and you have a pure 50/50.

Everyone acts like Scorp has no other options but high risk/ high reward. If you ask me, Scorp has better guessing games than Ermac up close even without the 50/50. Scorp's safe 50/50 does more than Ermac's, and his 111 pressure is better than any of Ermac's pressure strings as well. So the fact Scorp has a high risk/high reward to dominate or steal a round is more of a bonus than a liability if you ask me.

One mistake against Scorpion and you lose 35%...and then a vortex, which is also better than what Ermac has to offer. Good thing Ermac zones better, otherwise this would easily be a 6-4 match for Scorpion.

 

[Metzos]

Fuzzy guarding Scorp's 50/50 is a fallacy. I've never come across anyone that can block it consistanty. f4 and b2 are literally a difference of 1 frame. So its already a just frame to do in the first place. Take into account the different height you can land your jip punch with to mess up any fuzzy guarding attempts and you have a pure 50/50.

Everyone acts like Scorp has no other options but high risk/ high reward. If you ask me, Scorp has better guessing games than Ermac up close even without the 50/50. Scorp's safe 50/50 does more than Ermac's, and his 111 pressure is better than any of Ermac's pressure strings as well. So the fact Scorp has a high risk/high reward to dominate or steal a round is more of a bonus than a liability if you ask me.

One mistake against Scorpion and you lose 35%...and then a vortex, which is also better than what Ermac has to offer. Good thing Ermac zones better, otherwise this would easily be a 6-4 match for Scorpion.

True but dont forget i have a reset too (F4 ender combo). Pressure ? 121 same as yours (high special highx2) just yours has adv on block i think (not sure). Plus i have a vortex also Anyway its a pity that we cant play and see the advantages and weaknesses our characters have against each other.


EDIT : About the fuzzy yeah its not easy to do it i told you that. But you know what they say, practice makes perfect.

 

[Ermaculate_Slim]

While in the vortex cant you just block low and react to B2 since its slower then F4.I did it a couple times but now that I think of it you could just do 2 1+2 on a opponent doing that.This is why I hate fighting scorpion u have to think too much

 

[Metzos]

While in the vortex cant you just block low and react to B2 since its slower then F4.I did it a couple times but now that I think of it you could just do 2 1+2 on a opponent doing that.This is why I hate fighting scorpion u have to think too much

I think 2 1+2 is very unsafe on block. But then again if the opponent blocks it he can cancel it to takedown.

 

[Slips]

True but dont forget i have a reset too (F4 ender combo). Pressure ? 121 same as yours (high special highx2) just yours has adv on block i think (not sure). Plus i have a vortex also Anyway its a pity that we cant play and see the advantages and weaknesses our characters have against each other.


EDIT : About the fuzzy yeah its not easy to do it i told you that. But you know what they say, practice makes perfect.

Actually, my 111 only has 1 special high, and each hit has advantage on block, not just the last. Ermac's f+4 is good but you sacrifice a nice chunk of life to do it whereas Scorp doesn't.

And I agree it is a shame, and its exactly why I think the community match-up chart will never happen. Top players are too spread out. In Japan if there was a dispute they could go play eachother to see who was right. This will never happen here sadly.

EDIT: You can practice all you want, you won't be able to fuzzy block it dude lol. Nobody has, nobody will.

 

[Metzos]

EDIT: You can practice all you want, you won't be able to fuzzy block it dude lol. Nobody has, nobody will.

I didnt say all the time m8... But most of the time. And with enough practice and good reactions it can be done. Anyway thnx for the reply.

 

[Slips]

I didnt say all the time m8... But most of the time. And with enough practice and good reactions it can be done. Anyway thnx for the reply.

How can you 'most of the time' see a 50/50 mix-up 100% of the time? lol Alright man have a good one.

 

[Metzos]

How can you 'most of the time' see a 50/50 mix-up 100% of the time? lol Alright man have a good one.

I meant being able to fuzzy, for example, 7 or 8 of Scorpion's mixups. Sorry but i cant be clearer than that Slips. Anyway lets end it here. You have your opinions and i have mine about this MU.

 

[PimpUigi]

With the B2/F4 mixup, I don't really do it much anymore against my friends.
They all block it near 75% of the time, and claim they can see the B2 coming...they block low, and wait to see if it's a B2, then let go of block, and they block the overhead in a crouching animation.
They say "You have to crouch block the B2! See!"

But they could be just BSing me.

 

[GGA soonk]

Its not a block infinite anymore. If you want my honest opionion his rush down with his dash cancels are overrated. You can d1 or jump out of his dash cancel strings now. I don't recommend using ex spear because your right it tends to whiff at point blank range.

Takedown is completely safe now.

2 dash cancel is a block infinite if you block it standing. idk if it jails standing, I would assume yes or it wouldnt be a block infinite.

you know what else whiffs at point blank(besides half of my EX spears)? the ex takedown. happened last week at gga casuals, trying to get out of pressure/corner against cage. ex takedown went right through cage, i took the hit of damage, cage was left standing. this game is amazing up close.

 

[Slips]

With the B2/F4 mixup, I don't really do it much anymore against my friends.
They all block it near 75% of the time, and claim they can see the B2 coming...they block low, and wait to see if it's a B2, then let go of block, and they block the overhead in a crouching animation.
They say "You have to crouch block the B2! See!"

But they could be just BSing me.

Trust me man, just delay your f4 just barely and it will hit. A good thing to do is instead of jailing f4 after a jip is to NOT jail it. It will slightly delay your f4 and it will come out the same time as a jailed b2. Doing stuff like this screws up even some of the best reactionary players. I don't do the 50/50 that often unless I need a comeback or if I have breaker. And the fact I only do it so often denies them reps to practice fuzzy guarding to begin with and I can keep a mental note of how they are guarding every other time I do not go for it.

And yes there will be streaks of them guessing right, and there will eventually be streaks of you guessing right. Its just one of those things.

 

[Kedra]

I use B+2 on the vortex if ever I had 2 meters for breaker. But if I don't, I usually F+3.
Delaying normals, which Slips said, is one thing that makes the vortex harder to fuzzy.

EDIT: Delaying B+2 normal looks like a F+3 imo.

 

[PimpUigi]

Good stuff as always Slips!

 

[vegeta]

Slight delay - that makes sense actually, had a lotta ppl "fuzzy" guarding my vortex on occasion. I've learned so much more with him cuz of you guys in the last 3 days, with practice it'll take me to a whole new level. I owe u guys, gettin top 5 consistently in tournies now
btw that front page scorp double spear tech is nice, gonna integrate that into my game and also practice my IaTP later.

 

[BR3N7]

So just got back into the game , just trying to get a grasp on what Scorpions bad matchups are :

Even the 5-5's .

 

[vegeta]

Started Training on using IaTP. For some reason it's harder for me to accomplish than kitana's IaF. I manged to do hers almost 100% on the left side and on 2p side it was more like 80% (I play on pad so it's prolly thumb placement issue which I started working out) anyway for scorpion on EITHER side I'm more like 35%. I only had one day of training on it so far but is there any trick u guys are doin? I started stick training and freddy is easier to handle on it than scorp (course I just started freddy so naturally I don't have a "used to pad" issue yet) Anyway I need to get this 100%, it'll actually shut down a LOT of zoning ppl that I fight against and I got about a month and a half till the next tournament so I got some time. Maybe just practice till I get it right? Im pretty close to the ground when I teleport but sometimes it's not low enough it seems..

 

[Slips]

iatp is really hard, I don't think its possible to get 100%. I try to do it to the point where i either get a jnk or the iatp. Use it as a mix-up with ex tp. Depending on how that player counters ex tp allows you to set them up hard with iatp.

 

[vegeta]

Alright yeah I'll take note of that and you said it hard as **** but I'm determined to at least get it as much as possible.
thx again slips

 

[Scoot Magee]

Vs Cyber Sub - I do not feel confident in this match up with scorpion. I was playing with j360 recently and it was really tough to get anything going. His dive kick works really well against scorpion and it makes it extremely hard to get good spacing. Hellfire is really risky as well as trying to AA spear. As far as I know none of scorpions AA options work besides a risky ass spear and that's only if the cyber sub player whiffs in front of you. I'm not sure about meeting him in the air but I think the dive kick beats air to air moves clean. From what I know you can punish well placed dive kicks with ex hellfire but that doesn't seem like much considering you have to burn meter for 8%. I would take block pressure over that any day but he recovers too fast to get my 1's going. Up close scorpion can get some good pressure going but dive kick, d3 and parry are always an option for sub which will put the match right back in his favor. I've only played the match a few times but it seemed pretty rough.

 

[PimpUigi]

I don't have any experience against good CSZ players, but I'd jokingly suggest "spam air throw".
lol
Who knows, it might work. It's supposed to be invincible to air moves, right?

I think some well read AA Spears would do it, except if it whiffs full screen, he gets full jump in punish for free.
Ask J360 to help you next time.

 

[OutworldKeith]

You can punish a blocked CSZ dive kick w/ a well timed spear

 

[vegeta]

I don't have any experience against good CSZ players, but I'd jokingly suggest "spam air throw".
lol
Who knows, it might work. It's supposed to be invincible to air moves, right?

I think some well read AA Spears would do it, except if it whiffs full screen, he gets full jump in punish for free.
Ask J360 to help you next time.

My second experience fighting a CSZ, I avoided the DK by jumping back a bit, and had to space out attacks, that counter can hurt rushdown. Better than the last time I fought this dude where he stomped the crap outta me. I messed a few things up but it was 8 hours into the tourny and at that point we were doin the team tourny, crashing off of 5hr so I did some dumb crap LOL.