Scorpion Matchup Discussion Thread

[ELC]

Just a few changes, but I agree with most.

5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
6-4 vs Cyrax
5-5 vs Ermac
xxx vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
5-5 vs Jax
4-6 vs Johnny Cage
4-6 vs Kabal
5-5 vs Kano
xxx vs Kenshi
4-6 vs Kitana
4-6 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
5-5 vs Noob Saibot
5-5 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs Raiden
xxx vs Rain
4-6 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Sektor
5-5 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
5-5 vs Sindel
xxx vs Skarlet
5-5 vs Smoke
5-5 vs Sonya Blade
5-5 vs Stryker
5-5 vs Sub-Zero

And gg at Evo btw Konqrr, I was hella salty afterwards. But you lived up to your hype when we played and was very solid. Nice stuff.

Double the post, double the tightness.

Scorpion:

5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
4-6 vs Cyrax
5-5 vs Ermac
xxx vs Freddy Krueger (never played one)
6-4 vs Jade
5-5 vs Jax
5-5 vs Johnny Cage
3-7 vs Kabal
5-5 vs Kano
5-5 vs Kenshi
4-6 vs Kitana
4-6 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
6-4 vs Nightwolf
5-5 vs Noob Saibot
5-5 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs Raiden
5-5 vs Rain
4-6 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Sektor
5-5 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
5-5 vs Sindel
xxx vs Skarlet (never played one)
5-5 vs Smoke
5-5 vs Sonya Blade
5-5 vs Stryker
5-5 vs Sub-Zero

First: Baraka Matchup is missing: I'm guessing 5-5 + or - 1 myself, but I await Slips' response. Second: highlighted matchups which were added, hurt, or helped.

Finally, I'm gonna play devil's advocate and say the SCO|NWO matchup is indeed 5-5. Not that I don't agree with Slips reasoning (it's all very accurate), but what I think he's forgetting that Scorpion has less tools that are viable at jump-distance than Nightwolf (Shoulder and Hatchet are two that come to mind).

EDIT: By viable, I mean something that isn't extremely dependent on reading your opponent.

 

[Slips]

Baraka is 6-4. Good catch I didn't even see that.

If you ask me Scorpion has every bit of advantage as NW at jump distance. Shoulder can be ducked and launched. Hatchet can be whiffed and speared. Jump in can be anti-aired for a vortex. I don't feel NW has any more or safer options than Scorp. If anything, Scorp has the safest option with takedown.

6-4 still in my book.

 

[vegeta]

Baraka is 6-4. Good catch I didn't even see that.

If you ask me Scorpion has every bit of advantage as NW at jump distance. Shoulder can be ducked and launched. Hatchet can be whiffed and speared. Jump in can be anti-aired for a vortex. I don't feel NW has any more or safer options than Scorp. If anything, Scorp has the safest option with takedown.

6-4 still in my book.

Yeah I gotta say that sounds about right. I can see either 6-4 or the mentioned 5-5 I've gotten used to ducking his shoulders and seemingly a lotta the times if he does it as I'm jumping or hitting apex he goes under me and it puts us back at square one. just an opinion.

 

[SLASH]

I need some help with the Kung Lao matchup.

 

[vegeta]

I need some help with the Kung Lao matchup.

yick. kung lao. Post patch it's even a bit easier to fight him. For ME at least I like to bait out spins with scorpion. I generally get just out of reach of a spin and jump straight up, most of the time they get anxious and do it, when I come down a quick dash 1,1 spear or if I'm too far away just a straight spear. you can punish a blocked low hat that's in your face now with 1,1, then spear. I also like to stay a decent distance away from him. 3 things usually happen. 1, they try to throw the low hat, if I see it comin I usually teleport into vortex. I'm not sure but I think you can EX Spear his low hat too? haven't tried. 2, they try to either dash in OR the better scenario, get nervous if you block dash back and forth in place and they dive kick. I just block (Again baiting it out) and then punish accordingly. The third thing and the most difficult to react to UNLESS you just KNOW it's coming is a teleport. if he does his REGULAR teleport and you react fast enough you can jump kick, teleport and spear him. I've even gotten in a jump kick, tele, dash 1, 1 spear. Again you have to kinda plan it out. This stuff isn't the word of god LOL it's just worked for me pretty well up until now.
Be careful with jumping in on him as the spin kills that as well as teleports. Also if you pressure him do it carefully. again...the spin is to be respected. not necessarily feared BUT respected. That's about the extent of what I try with the limited Kung Lao's I've played.

 

[Big Pampering]

ive been having trouble with the sektor matchup lately, anybody got tips?

 

[vegeta]

The tournament I was in yesterday had a good sektor, unfortunately I didn't get a chance to play him really so I'm at a loss. I however did face a sub zero for the first time and lost. That matchup and that clone is a BITCH. Still got 5th overall and 3rd in the last tourny so I'm not mad. Knowing about sektor would probably help me out a bit too just in case. Never really saw a real good one till yesterday.
I can say from what I saw though if he spams missiles I can try and teleport or if HE teleports (bait him to do it) you could punish. Again just speculation on what I watched yesterday.

 

[Slips]

You can't really zone Sektor, his TP and missiles beat hellfire with ease. So you gotta go after him. Once you have meter he can't missile much anymore without risking getting EX Speared. Scorp, like most characters, can d4 a homing missile to avoid it. When you block a EX TP from Sektor do 334, it will stop all his options. Sektor isn't an easy match, but those are the basics.

 

[Big Pampering]

You can't really zone Sektor, his TP and missiles beat hellfire with ease. So you gotta go after him. Once you have meter he can't missile much anymore without risking getting EX Speared. Scorp, like most characters, can d4 a homing missile to avoid it. When you block a EX TP from Sektor do 334, it will stop all his options. Sektor isn't an easy match, but those are the basics.

thanks, you dont think the matchup is a bit in sektors favor? not enough to be a 6-4 though. maybe 5.5 in his favor

 

[Slips]

I think its 5-5. Neither character can really abuse their zoning options too much. Sektor gets too predictable with missiles just iaTP and you get in with 111 pressure or 50/50 of your choice. And once Scorp gets meter then it becomes even riskier for him to zone. Sektor is a little better at jump distance, but Scorp is better at point blank. I think it comes down to 5-5...and I don't like .5 in match-up charts personally.

 

[vegeta]

sweet. Any thoughts on reptile? I had to fight one in an exhibition match and even though I was pretty tired I got SLAUGHTERED and the dude hit me with a babality, never will I take pride damage like that again and I will have "vengence" just gotta figure out how to do it. Dude likes to turn inviso and do the ball and then run at me. Though I noticed he runs and jumps straight up so maybe I should be neutral punching the guy....I dunno I honestly think I wasn't all there but still.....yick. that reptile rushdown man...

 

[Big Pampering]

sweet. Any thoughts on reptile? I had to fight one in an exhibition match and even though I was pretty tired I got SLAUGHTERED and the dude hit me with a babality, never will I take pride damage like that again and I will have "vengence" just gotta figure out how to do it. Dude likes to turn inviso and do the ball and then run at me. Though I noticed he runs and jumps straight up so maybe I should be neutral punching the guy....I dunno I honestly think I wasn't all there but still.....yick. that reptile rushdown man...

Not too much experience with reptile vs scorp, I usually like to pick smoke against him, reptile is a pretty bad match for smoke but I trained that match up so much with somebody, so it isnt really bad for me anymore.


Anyhow
I like to make reptile jump by using hellfire at the range he can't punish it and if he jumps meet him with an air to air, which scorpion is supposed to win, scorpion has so many options in the air.

BTW dont abuse the hellfire either, I use it 3 times max. I like to be either up close or at full screen, jumping back and right before you land try an air grab, whiffing air grabs builds you meter. And if you have meter use EX teleport to get in. and pressure with 1,1 and suprise him with some mix ups.

In other words I like to play safe until I have meter.

 

[Slips]

I think eventually, in time, the Reptile match will be 4-6, but as it stands right now, I think its 5-5. Reptile can't zone with acid spit because of hellfire and iaTP. He can't really abuse balls too much either because you can iaTP. Which leaves him trying to whiff a dash to try and get in. Reptile players will do 1 of 3 things after a whiffed dash. a) jump b) d4 c) dash again.

So with Scorp, for a) jnp b) jump towards reptile for cross up. c) block and punish dash.

The damage potential is greater for Scorp in these scenarios. So just pick up on your opponent's patter and you should come out on top.

Just don't fall for the classic dash set-ups like after a whiffed jump or blocked acid backhand.

 

[Big Pampering]

I think eventually, in time, the Reptile match will be 4-6, but as it stands right now, I think its 5-5. Reptile can't zone with acid spit because of hellfire and iaTP. He can't really abuse balls too much either because you can iaTP. Which leaves him trying to whiff a dash to try and get in. Reptile players will do 1 of 3 things after a whiffed dash. a) jump b) d4 c) dash again.

So with Scorp, for a) jnp b) jump towards reptile for cross up. c) block and punish dash.

The damage potential is greater for Scorp in these scenarios. So just pick up on your opponent's patter and you should come out on top.

Just don't fall for the classic dash set-ups like after a whiffed jump or blocked acid backhand.

reptiles I meet also dash right in front of you and try to grab

 

[Slips]

reptiles I meet also dash right in front of you and try to grab

Yea, thats the range you want to stay OUT of. Either have Reptile at full screen, or at the range where you can block his dash and punish. Like all fighters, its a game of spacing.

 

[vegeta]

Alright I'll keep it in mind, that's good to know. As for scorps IaTLP is that done the same way as kitana's IAF? I haven't gotten a chance to look it up yet but that DEF sounds useful

 

[Big Pampering]

Alright I'll keep it in mind, that's good to know. As for scorps IaTLP is that done the same way as kitana's IAF? I haven't gotten a chance to look it up yet but that DEF sounds useful

its much harder to do than an instant air fan. because you need to be JUST off the ground to have it to work. if you just want to do a just frame teleport instead of instant off the ground, you can just either jump forward or jump back and do a teleport right before you land on the ground.

BTW, Kitana and Kabal aren't that bad for a matchup I think I used to think it was 7-3. It would actually even be better for people to do instant airfireballs instead of normal ones because you can now catch them with a teleport into a combo if they are in the air.

But somebody any clue on dealing with those crazy dash cancels?

 

[Slips]

Its done the same way as instant air fan yes. You don't need to do the just frame version necessarily, just as long as enough to hit them before they can block. And like PerfectMindGame said, for air fireball characters you actually do NOT want the jf version so you hit them out of the air into a vortex.

PerfectMindGame, you talking about dash cancels when Kabal gets in or from full screen?

 

[Metzos]

[MENTION=2760]Slips[/MENTION] : Hey m8 i have a question, i an an Ermac player and i wanna ask you. Why Ermac vs Scorpion 5-5 ?

 

[Slips]

If this were pre-patch Scorpion without the safe takedown it'd prolly be 4-6 in Ermac's favor. But since he has that now he has a safe and practical tool to pressure Ermac with after a block tkp.

 

[Metzos]

If this were pre-patch Scorpion without the safe takedown it'd prolly be 4-6 in Ermac's favor. But since he has that now he has a safe and practical tool to pressure Ermac with after a block tkp.

True but no Ermac player will do a TKP when in range of the takedown. Plus its only safe it doesnt have adv on block i think ( correct me if i m wrong) which means i have mixups up close too ( F4, 31, U4 , throw, 121, low pokes). What else except the safe takedown ?

 

[Big Pampering]

Its done the same way as instant air fan yes. You don't need to do the just frame version necessarily, just as long as enough to hit them before they can block. And like PerfectMindGame said, for air fireball characters you actually do NOT want the jf version so you hit them out of the air into a vortex.

PerfectMindGame, you talking about dash cancels when Kabal gets in or from full screen?

I meant the block infinite actually, I dont know anybody who can perform this block infinite well, so I am curious about the properties, can you use ex spear to check kabal? same for JC, there are cases were I EX speared him out of the frame traps but there are also cases he would just catch me with his attacks.

BTW is takedown safe on block against ermac? he cant lift you after blocking it?

 

[Slips]

True but no Ermac player will do a TKP when in range of the takedown. Plus its only safe it doesnt have adv on block i think ( correct me if i m wrong) which means i have mixups up close too ( F4, 31, U4 , throw, 121, low pokes). What else except the safe takedown ?

The point is after a blocked tkp Scorp can dash in and d4 into takedown or d4 into mix-up. Only after a max distance blocked tkp does he still have to respect another one and dash block in again. Scorpion, if he's feelin frisky, can always hellfire after a blocked tkp as well to get the ermac play a different game of spacing other than dashing back and tkp'ing all day. If Scorp has meter ex takedown and ex tp is something Ermac has to respect as well.

Scorp wins the projectile at full screen with hellfire, which means Ermac either has to take a risk doing a tp or work his way into tkp range.

Ermac has all types of answers for what Scorp can do, but I don't see how the door doesn't swing both ways. Scorp's got a lot of answers for what Ermac does as well, which is why I think its 5-5.

 

[Metzos]

The point is after a blocked tkp Scorp can dash in and d4 into takedown or d4 into mix-up. Only after a max distance blocked tkp does he still have to respect another one and dash block in again. Scorpion, if he's feelin frisky, can always hellfire after a blocked tkp as well to get the ermac play a different game of spacing other than dashing back and tkp'ing all day. If Scorp has meter ex takedown and ex tp is something Ermac has to respect as well.

Scorp wins the projectile at full screen with hellfire, which means Ermac either has to take a risk doing a tp or work his way into tkp range.

Ermac has all types of answers for what Scorp can do, but I don't see how the door doesn't swing both ways. Scorp's got a lot of answers for what Ermac does as well, which is why I think its 5-5.

I dont think Scorpion wins fullscreen in a projectile war against Ermac but ok. You can hellfire fullscreen but i can tp on reaction or even do an EX tp for a decent combo dmg. When Scorpion has meter the only thing i fear from him is the EX spear. I have caught many Scorpions with TKP while they were doing an EX tele. As for hellfire i can always do levitate and then cancel it or jump and do an air blast to bait an AA spear. Plus you cant escape when Ermac has you in the corner and he keeps zoning you like hell with TKP's. My point is that the only thing you have to be careful from Scorpion is the EX spear when he has meter.

 

[Slips]

I dont think Scorpion wins fullscreen in a projectile against Ermac but ok. You can hellfire fullscreen but i can tp on reaction or even do an EX tp for a decent combo dmg. When Scorpion has meter the only thing i fear from him is the EX spear. I have caught many Scorpions with TKP when they were doing an EX tele. As for hellfire i can always do levitate and then cancel it or jump and do an air blast to bait an AA spear. Plus you cant escape when Ermac has you in the corner and he keeps zoning you like hell with TKP's. My point is that the only thing you have to be careful from Scorpion is the EX spear when he has meter.

I haven't met anyone who can react to hellfire on reaction. There are people that react to first movement and jump or teleport, so I use feints to bait people into doing so and punish accordingly. If you get too predictable with levitate I can tp to catch you out of the air and put you in a vortex. I agree doing ex tp within tkp range is silly, I meant as a full screen option, my bad. Within tkp range Scorp has would use ex spear like you said or ex takedown as a safer option if we are talking about burning meter. Its playing out just like I said, every counter you have for Scorpion I have one for Ermac, its the essence of a 5-5 match.

I agree Ermac is strongest when he has his opponent cornered, but thats not just Scorpion specific, thats just Ermac at his best. Thats like me saying Scorpion beats Ermac because you can't escape my vortex. It has nothing to do with the match-up.