Scorpion Matchup Discussion Thread

[Slips]

Now I am aware of the duck jab, but everytime I've tried he still hits me with his own crossup JP. Do I have to wait till he's on the other side of me to do it? I don't know the timing if there is any, or if I just hit D+1 will it auto correct for me? I saw you and check do it millions of times but for some reason I myself still get hit when trying to anti-air a crossup punch.
Thanks for all the help guys btw, I've already gotten more decent at this just by reading and trying to adapt. Just need to clean up a few more things and I'll be fine.

The trick for using d1 as anti-cross up is you gotta release block early and just learn the timing. But honestly, you can do d1 just as anti-air in general. Not just for corss-ups.

 

[vegeta]

The trick for using d1 as anti-cross up is you gotta release block early and just learn the timing. But honestly, you can do d1 just as anti-air in general. Not just for corss-ups.

OH ok I see, yeah I just hit it right after block. and just as AA is good too, figured that one out on accident lol. Fantastic. More MK for me tonight, time to get it together

 

[princemurphy]

Can someone tell me whats the best move to get out of Kabal's cancel string with scorp. Also when to do the move. I can never seem to poke out of it.

 

[Saint]

Can someone tell me whats the best move to get out of Kabal's cancel string with scorp. Also when to do the move. I can never seem to poke out of it.

Your 1 string will do the job

 

[Bluez]

Your 1 string will do the job

I use 1 string too, or just d1 to interrupt him and get a chance to breathe and react.

Edit: I also use 3,3 string too, its quick.

 

[The-Sky-Cries]

Ohh man, I love scorpion, but I think the match up should be 3-7 against Kung Lao. Once in a corner, scorpions will just get raped by pressure, with no real way to get out. And Kung Lao is probably the best corner pressurer there is.

 

[The-Sky-Cries]

That's great advice man but if you got within striking distance all she has to do is poke you and you cant attack her.

Off the square boost, you can safely spear her if you time it right. I believe the timing is like ask soon as she's over your head, start inputting spear.

 

[vegeta]

I fought a reptile in a tournament a week or so ago. That match at first was ok, I just hat to try and stop his momentum. lots of risky jumping and teleporting. Then he caught on. Now as I said I'm newer to THIS game so I don't know all the matchups yet and this was my first reptile, but I start going a bit old school UMK3 when I knocked him down I'd dash and block in his face and he'd try to run and I'd get to punish. as for ball pressure the dude force balled, I'd block the acid spit and he'd run behind the ball and jump (he'd stop in front of me) so I just anti aired him. OR if he ran behind the ball I'd teleport to the other side and get out of the balls way and he can't have two on the screen so I could try and get in. Also I used scorps EX teleport and touched the ball when I landed and nothing happened, I assume his armor cancels it? I was running on instinct and innovation and playing his few weaknesses. I'd hope that the more experienced scorp players will fill in any info I don't know. The fight was a pain in the ass though.

Speaking of learning, here's some matches after learning and listening to info u guys provided me with and practicing. I'm getting more consistent, still a lotta holes in the game and under SERIOUS pressure I can't keep my head on right just yet. I'm gettin there though. The quan and cage match I was winging it, never played a quan or a cage. Fought another scorpion player too. First time we played he won in the last round (we were doin ft3) the second time I wont last round. we're pretty even just got a different playstyle. Cool player

vs QUAN


vs scorp

vs Cage

 

[SpyderJ]

Hey vegeta, gotta say nice improvement from the last games you posted. Loved the pressure in the first quan match but made me sad that you didnt keep doing it. I generaly opt for that type of pressure and punish any mistakes they make in place of going for the vortex which I see that you like. Just my prefference so theres obviously no obligation to take this route in place of the vortex, but ive found that that pressure for a regular game plan and following up a combo has given me amazing results. Also it gets you into a much safer mindset since I saw quite a few opportunities in ur matches that with a more pressure oriented style would have been capitalized on better.

Still you have a pretty damn good scorp, but always room for improvement. What im reffering to with this is what ive seen in both slips's gameplay at tournaments and a specific match between Check's scorpion and Chris-G's reptile. The pressure and capitalization on the little things that you see from both of their scorpions makes all the difference, Since one little anti air turns into a safe 40-50% almost every time with the right pressure and approach.

 

[vegeta]

Hey vegeta, gotta say nice improvement from the last games you posted. Loved the pressure in the first quan match but made me sad that you didnt keep doing it. I generaly opt for that type of pressure and punish any mistakes they make in place of going for the vortex which I see that you like. Just my prefference so theres obviously no obligation to take this route in place of the vortex, but ive found that that pressure for a regular game plan and following up a combo has given me amazing results. Also it gets you into a much safer mindset since I saw quite a few opportunities in ur matches that with a more pressure oriented style would have been capitalized on better.

Still you have a pretty damn good scorp, but always room for improvement. What im reffering to with this is what ive seen in both slips's gameplay at tournaments and a specific match between Check's scorpion and Chris-G's reptile. The pressure and capitalization on the little things that you see from both of their scorpions makes all the difference, Since one little anti air turns into a safe 40-50% almost every time with the right pressure and approach.

Thx man but yes, Some of the things I could have done I hesitated too long or made a bad choice. I'm still trying to make lots of things second nature. for instance doing a 1,1 for anti air should get me a teleport punch (even after blocking my mirrors teleport) and I'm at least THINKING I can do it right after it's too late. soon it'll just be doin it. Now my problem with quan is I didn't play the character so I was fighting on reaction, plus the dude I play loves to just throw stuff out (I.E. Force push with ermac, TK attacks with kenshi and uppercuts with quan. Hell even random jump punches) so I get kinda nervous bout doin stuff. plus he ducks my first 1 in 111 all the time (in this case I needa do more mids lol)

 

[vegeta]

Oh and yeah, slips and check. Still amazed by those two. Very inspired by their gameplay. I owe em thanks for putting me back on track. I tried to run to other characters cuz things got WAY tough when I started this game. Scorp is my main and has been since MK1, and running aint my style. Glad I decided to stick with him

and apparently the mirror match vid got cut off so he took it down and put up the full thing. here it is if anyone didn't see it before it got removed.

 

[l3rainst0rm]

gotta say i agree with slips a hundred percent of all the possible match ups kitana cyrax and kung lao seemd to be the worst. ive never really had to much trouble with the cage though. i would say cyrax is 3-7 for scorpion almost cuz his net bomb set up is near impossible to punish let alone if u do avoid them both hell probly anti air you or if u teleport already be blocking. cyrax is scorpion bane in my mind. kung laos spin is litterally unfair against him i mean cmon.. theres not much safety when apply pressur to lao with scorpion. and kitana although a much easier match up then the other too can get rediculous with the frame advantage making u enhanced tele or use a down 1. but her zoning isnt too much trouble for him. all i know is ive had the most trouble with lao and cyrax and ive litterally played scorpion from when this game came out on the 20th of april.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

..

Nightwolf, same thing as Jade as far as reflect. Jax is a harder match-up than NW when it comes down to it here, this may be 6-4 in Scorp's favor honestly.

I don't know if it has been addressed but I'd say it's even. What does scorp have as an advantage over nw? Nothing. you have eh hell fire but I have eh lightning...and I can combo off mine...and you can't get out of my eh lightning at all if I time it right.

I don't need reflect at all in any match ups really...it just makes some easier. It's even IMO.

 

[Slips]

l3rainst0rm, KL and Kit are manageable yea. I'm still learning the ins and outs of the Kit match-up but the KL match-up I know pretty well and its just a matter of eliminating most of his options to try and get in. I think I've narrowed it down to where his main option to get in is just bullet kick, which I'll happily eat a few of those just to block one. But Cyrax is an absolute nightmare, don't even get me started.

L0rdoftheFLY, I personally feel NW is just a crappier version of Scorp. Not by much of course, I just feel Scorp does the same thing as NW does, just a little bit better, so he wins.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I couldn't disagree more. We do however need to find a way to agree. For this matchup chart to work we need all the character representatives to come to a consEnsus.

You can't put bias as a reason. 5-5

 

[vegeta]

I dunno, maybe it depends on the players but I've fought a few cyrax players and didn't have much trouble, so long as they weren't too aware of his anti-air throw I generally just cross him up or takedown through his bombs if they're trying to trap me. The ONLY time I had trouble with cyrax is before they fixed that bomb trap mess lol. I also recently started playing against a good nightwolf and as long as I jump the lightning or duck his shoulder ram I'm fine. Though I had to be careful cuz he would mix it up with the EX shoulder and that was a pain lol. Haven't played enough different people with the two but so far I'd say the matchups weren't too tough.

 

[l3rainst0rm]

hey slips i played with 16-bit the other day and he told me to watch sum of ur vids and i did and u had a grand finals match vs a cyrax at like dannys pub or something. anyway i just wanted to know why u didnt repick after u saw he was picking cyrax. if its because ur loyal to scorp then props bro. cyrax doesnt deserve the repick. also i tried using his shoulder combo instead of the back, 2 combo and its gotten easier to do for me cuz ive been playing chars like quan chi, baraka, csz. some chars where u have to press 2 buttons at once to finish the combo. but ya its a lot safer then the down swords and its been working nicely. so props dude ur a sick scorp

 

[l3rainst0rm]

i rly think its 6-4 in scorps favor for a NW matchup. never once had a problem against him

 

[Slips]

l3rainst0rm, its pretty easy to just fold when your obvious choices fail in a match-up and pick someone else. But you learn a lot about your character in their hardest match-ups. I used to think Kit was EASILY Scorp's worst match, but I've learned its not so bad after getting my ass kicked and learning a few things about the match-up. I plan on doing the same with Cyrax....he's definitely a motherfucker though so far lol.

I couldn't disagree more. We do however need to find a way to agree. For this matchup chart to work we need all the character representatives to come to a consEnsus.

You can't put bias as a reason. 5-5

Let me lay out my reasoning and if you still disagree, then we'll call it 5-5.

To me Spear is a riskier version of shoulder but warrants much more damage, So I'll call it even there. Hellfire is a less riskier version of Lightning that warrants the same damage but lightning knocks down so I'll call it even there too. Hatchet and arrow are good moves but nothing crazy. Takedown and TP are good too but again nothing to tip the scales.

EX shoulder vs. EX spear serve the same purpose, but again EX Spear warrants a lot of damage whreas NW is safer on whiff, so I still say even.

EX Lightning > EX Hellfire, can't argue with that. (+1 to NW)

EX Takedown & TP > EX Hatchet and arrow. EX Hatchet is good for extending combos and pressure and ex arrows are just whatever, but these are not near the impact Scorp has with his takedown and TP. EX Takedown is a safer version of Sub Zero's slide but not quite the reach. EX TP is practically a get in for free card if people aren't paying attention and blows up instant air fireball characters for half life. (+1 to Scorp)

So far its even and we are left with normals and the in close game and punishment.

NW doesn't have a mid/low mix up with his normals or special moves. Scorp has a safe overhead, and a safe low string that does 14%. He has a jab string that has an in-built overhead launch that can be mixed up with safe takedown. And finally if he needs to make a comeback he has high risk 50/50 that everyone already knows about. NW has nothing like this at all. NW only has pressure/throw mix-up...which Scorp can do almost as equally with his 111 string. (+1 Scorp)

Finally, Scorpion punishes harder than NW I think too. Spots where NW has to settle for a shoulder Scorp gets a spear. Punishments where the character is left flipping in your face (like blocking a Kano ball) both get about 40%, but Scorp gets a vortex which is huge. And finally some obscure punishments like Mileena EX TP, JC flip kick ect. Scorp gets 30% plus vortex. I don't think NW has anything close to that to my knowledge. (+1 Scorp)

So there's my reasoning. Scorp wins by 2 points in my book. Zoning-wise I think they even out pretty well, I just think Scorp wins with his mix-ups and his ability to punish better. If you still think its 5-5 then I don't mind, it'll make me feel better if you beat me in the future.

 

[l3rainst0rm]

how do u deal with kit using scorp. i have a lot of trouble dealing with the frame advantage stuff the most i think.

 

[shoshinsha]

Regarding the Nightwolf/Scorpion debate, I think 5-5 is the right number, but in a sort of unbalanced way. The reason is that, in general, Nightwolf is a much more balanced and much safer character. Just about the only thing that he takes much risk on is lightning, which you usually don't even throw out from more than 2/3 screen distance. A good Nightwolf can bully almost any character in the game (exceptions maybe being Raiden, KL, etc.), and can turtle with the best of them. And while everyone knows the value of shoulder, lightning, f31, and etc., few people really make adequate use of his hatchet, which is far more powerful than as just a combo starter/filler. From about sweep range, it can really control a lot of space.

Scorpion, on the other hand, has greater POTENTIAL for damage, because he can go on damage runs with his vortex and such. However, he can't go on those damage runs AND play very safe at the same time. He has to choose. He can opt to play it safe, but his damage becomes pretty limited, and an opponent who knows his strings knows what to watch for. He doesn't have the same all-purpose "bully" moves that Nightwolf has, and he doesn't have the same margin for error.

So while Nightwolf can control the pace of the match and safely dish out pretty good damage, Scorpion has the potential for enormous damage but has to make the right reads or guesses to do it. In the end, it comes down to which player successfully gets in the other's head the most, and that is (to me) the definition of "5-5."

 

[Slips]

You can't really 'bully' with shoulder, you got to be careful with that move ALMOST as much as Scorps spear. Someone ducks a shoulder you eat a full combo. The only time where shoulder is safer is if its blocked up close (obviously since spear is punishable up close) and using it for distance aa. So where its only 'slightly' safer and it doing a mere 12% Scorp is doing 35%. I think it works out even there, maybe even in Scorps favor...especially when you consider in punishment situations where NW settles for a charge and Scorp gets a spear.

You say Scorpion has to choose between high risk/high reward vs low/rick low reward....but thats all NW has to begin with, he doesn't even have a choice. If he needs to make a comeback, he has to rely on chip damage and throws. And that sucks.

I still say 6-4, but if everyone wants it to be 5-5, then I guess majority rules.

 

[RWDY Nori]

As a former NW player since day 1, I can easily say Scorpion wins this matchup. Scorpion does everything better, minus reflect, which is overrated in high level play regardless. Scorpion deals much better pressure, better recovery on fire, and EASILY has a better ability to stay in your face due to vortex mixups. Also, his D4 is just too strong. This is not a fun matchup for NW at all and I don't think many people have good exp against a competent NW, they seem to let his tools just scare them easily.

 

[vegeta]

As a former NW player since day 1, I can easily say Scorpion wins this matchup. Scorpion does everything better, minus reflect, which is overrated in high level play regardless. Scorpion deals much better pressure, better recovery on fire, and EASILY has a better ability to stay in your face due to vortex mixups. Also, his D4 is just too strong. This is not a fun matchup for NW at all and I don't think many people have good exp against a competent NW, they seem to let his tools just scare them easily.

I played a nightwolf for the first time a while ago. Instead of me posting vid after vid in here I'll put in a link to our recorded casual matches around my area. I'm always open for constructive criticism on how I play, any flaws people can see or anything you guys might know that could help me if I seem to be struggling with stuff, as well it goes in reverse, gives anyone that views this thread some scorpion games to watch. I am one scorp player and hatake osawa is another, this channel gets updated pretty regularly. The most recent posted matches contain a nightwolf match or two that I got into.

link: http://www.youtube.com/iLoveMeSomeSOVA#p/u/8/NIgCDkKjMpo

 

[vegeta]

That being said I noticed as of late that NW seems to struggle with pressure game. If you get on him it's hard for him to get you off of him. All the NW's Ive played up till this point like to keep you at arms length, especially with shoulder since it crushes a LOT of crap. I could be wrong, I've only played 2 on a regular basis but they both said similar stuff regarding NW and getting rushed or pressured.