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Scorpion Matchup Discussion Thread

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
I realize that there might be a matchup thread already in this forum, but the point of this thread is to discuss matchups to make the Matchup Chart as accurate as possible.

The Matchup Chart thread:
http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?3075-Mortal-Kombat-(2011)-Matchup-Chart

When you discuss or list what you think the matchups are, please do so in alphabetical order. Also, they should be listed in either whole numbers or .5 notations.

The current Matchup Chart for Scorpion is as follows:
5-5 vs Baraka
5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
5-5 vs Cyrax
5-5 vs Ermac
xxx vs Freddy Krueger
5-5 vs Jade
5-5 vs Jax
4-6 vs Johnny Cage
4-6 vs Kabal
4-6 vs Kano
xxx vs Kenshi
4-6 vs Kitana
4-6 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
4-6 vs Nightwolf
5-5 vs Noob Saibot
5-5 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs Raiden
xxx vs Rain
4-6 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Sektor
5-5 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
5-5 vs Sindel
xxx vs Skarlet
5-5 vs Smoke
5-5 vs Sonya Blade
5-5 vs Stryker
5-5 vs Sub-Zero


Agree? Disagree? DISCUSS!

4-6 vs Cyrax ??
6-4 vs Jade ??
5-5 vs Kano ??
5-5 vs Nightwolf ??
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Just a few changes, but I agree with most.

5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
4-6 vs Cyrax
5-5 vs Ermac
5-5 vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
5-5 vs Jax
4-6 vs Johnny Cage
4-6 vs Kabal
5-5 vs Kano
5-5 vs Kenshi
4-6 vs Kitana
4-6 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
5-5 vs Noob Saibot
5-5 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs Raiden
5-5 vs Rain
4-6 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Sektor
5-5 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
5-5 vs Sindel
xxx vs Skarlet
5-5 vs Smoke
5-5 vs Sonya Blade
5-5 vs Stryker
5-5 vs Sub-Zero

And gg at Evo btw Konqrr, I was hella salty afterwards. :p But you lived up to your hype when we played and was very solid. Nice stuff.
 

ELC

Scrublord McGee
I also thought Kitana would be at a 3-7 due to the difficulty of the matchup?
 
I think its cool that Scoprion breaks even w/ just about every character & his harder match-ups are still winnable. Wouldnt that make Scorpion one of the more balanced characters in the game?
 

ELC

Scrublord McGee
Just a few changes, but I agree with most.

5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
6-4 vs Cyrax
5-5 vs Ermac
xxx vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
5-5 vs Jax
4-6 vs Johnny Cage
4-6 vs Kabal
5-5 vs Kano
xxx vs Kenshi
4-6 vs Kitana
4-6 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
5-5 vs Noob Saibot
5-5 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs Raiden
xxx vs Rain
4-6 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Sektor
5-5 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
5-5 vs Sindel
xxx vs Skarlet
5-5 vs Smoke
5-5 vs Sonya Blade
5-5 vs Stryker
5-5 vs Sub-Zero

And gg at Evo btw Konqrr, I was hella salty afterwards. :p But you lived up to your hype when we played and was very solid. Nice stuff.
Let me see if I got my logic right:

@ Cyrax 6-4: Seems about right: Cyrax is as slow as Sub-Zero when it comes to specials, and Cyrax can't really escape pressure as well as Sub-Zero. If it weren't for the massive damage resets and combos Cyrax could pull off, I'd put this as a 7-3 in Scorpion's favor, but everyone has to respect Cyrax's damage output.

@ Jade 6-4: Does spear bypass flash? Anyhow, it comes down to being able to escape pressure, which Jade cannot do, and being able to zone, which she can do well.

@ Kano 5-5: Basically a zoner who can escape pressure, just like Noob.

@ Nightwolf 5-5: I'm pretty sure spear bypasses Reflect, but I'll have to do some more testing since it's been awhile since I fought Nightwolf. If so, then I agree.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Actually, I meant for Cyrax to be 4-6 lol. Scorp has no option of zoning against Cyrax. Hellfires and spears trading with nets and bombs are never in Scorps favor. Leaving him no options but to move forward into Cyrax's mine field of death or throwing out a TP that could cost you 70%. My bad for the typo. :p

Jade, hellfire bypasses flash. I don't have much respect for Jade's zoning or Jade in general to be honest.

Scorp's hellfire trades well with Kano. Noob can zone better than Kano but Kano has better mix-ups. It all equals out to 5-5 at least for me.

Nightwolf, same thing as Jade as far as reflect. Jax is a harder match-up than NW when it comes down to it here, this may be 6-4 in Scorp's favor honestly.
 

ELC

Scrublord McGee
Ah: gotcha. Now that you explain the Cyrax matchup: it does sound like it would be pretty difficult to get in. How does it compare to vs. Kitana?
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
They are both equally shitty. Once Scorpion has meter the match becomes 5-5 because his ex moves are great for killing zoners. It's gettin that meter in the first place which makes it hard. Cyrax is a pain cause your forced to jump and throw out TP when you don't want to because of bombs. Kitana your forced to stay grounded and deal with her f21, cutter and d1 bs because iaf will blow you up jumping.
 
Now slips I have been playing scorpion since day 1 and I was wondering how to kombat kitana. She is his worst matchup and my strategy so far is to ex spear fans, don't jump and get hellfire and random teleports in when I can. Also the sub zero match up is interesting because that match up is all about staying calm and patient. But what is your opinion on the matchup.
 
If slips doesnt mind I can help out w/ the Sub-Zero match-up...

First off the ideal range you want to be is full screen or jump distance. Respect the clones, so that means don't try reckless rush downs. Most Subz players like to turtle behind the clones & wait for mistakes so every time you can read an ice clone make him uncomfortable w/ a hellfire. Now he will have to read hellfire so he cant just sit back & turtle. He has the option to slide (which is easily read from jump & full screen) ice ball or jump. You get full combo off of blocked slide & free hellfire off of a jumped slide. Ice ball does no chip which means you can just block it or if you have meter ex spear the ice ball for full combo. Finally if you can make him jump in on you, you have 3 option NJP, Sword Overhead, or 3~teleport. Your best AA option is 3~teleport for full combo. To some it up you have to out zone Subz
 
Thanks I didn't mean to single out slips and leave out the rest of the community. That was my bad and thanks for the valuable insight koe.
 

ELC

Scrublord McGee
Drebin (or eyehaveyou17, if you'd prefer :p ), my suggestion for the Kitana matchup would be to keep ducking (not duck-blocking) under her fans, then get about 1/2 screen away (best place for recovery on fan toss in my experience). The next time she goes for fans, dodge, dip, duck, dive, dodge, and then punish with hellfire. Eventually, she'll either get the idea that she needs to square wave away or start the pressure games. If she flies away, repeat the counter-zoning process a few times to condition her to repeat the same strat, then prepare a spear when she goes for the wave. If she decides to pressue ... well, I'm not really sure what you can do. Just don't jump in on her. ^_^

Though, I haven't had much experience with Scorpion in a practical setting (all number-crunching theory here), so I suggest waiting for Slips or KOE's thoughts.
 

King

Sig Maker
If slips doesnt mind I can help out w/ the Sub-Zero match-up...

First off the ideal range you want to be is full screen or jump distance. Respect the clones, so that means don't try reckless rush downs. Most Subz players like to turtle behind the clones & wait for mistakes so every time you can read an ice clone make him uncomfortable w/ a hellfire. Now he will have to read hellfire so he cant just sit back & turtle. He has the option to slide (which is easily read from jump & full screen) ice ball or jump. You get full combo off of blocked slide & free hellfire off of a jumped slide. Ice ball does no chip which means you can just block it or if you have meter ex spear the ice ball for full combo. Finally if you can make him jump in on you, you have 3 option NJP, Sword Overhead, or 3~teleport. Your best AA option is 3~teleport for full combo. To some it up you have to out zone Subz
This is some solid advice here. What I'd like to add (as a Sub main) is that Hellfire for Sub is extremely annoying to deal with since Sub is at his strongest on the ground. In this matchup, I also like not to keep Sub in the vortex; I like to get him once, nail 40%, then throw him away and force him to come back to me again. The only thing you have to watch for is his EX Ice Ball; it can trade with most of your zoning options and give him free entry and a combo.
 
The Kitana match-up is a bitch!!! Frankly because of the Square Boost ( causes knock down ) & the air Fan Toss ( which she gets full combo ). These 2 moves can completely shut down Scorpion's air game which is one of his strong points. Now in this match-up you want crouch at full screen to bait the Square Boost & pay close attention to the spacing so she lands either directly in front or in back of you. Here's where Scorpion takes advantage, as soon as she lands use 3,3~spear or D+3 into 3,3~spear because 3 starts at 10frames & D+3 starts at 7 frames & all of Kitana's strings start above 10frames. The only way to interrupt is D+1 ( which moves Kitana players use more than once on a confirmed hit ) & if that happens jok~air throw. If she knocks you down she will most likely rush in w/ F+2,1 if blocked you can interrupt w/ D+1 or D+3 into safe jump or you can simply wake up w/ :en Spear into full combo. A risky option would be to jump~teleport when she throws an air fan to juggle her. Don't :en Spear from full screen she can block the recovery is great. So your best option is to get in close range to gain advantage.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
There's no clear cut way to fight Kitana, she decides when the match begins really lol. However, once you have meter its very risky for her to throw fans. EX TP and EX Spear will blow fans up. A good Kitana will recognize this and cause you to waste the meter by ducking, but that just means you can hellfire and actually fight her like a normal character since she knows its risky to continue her zoning game.

If you don't have meter, well, you got an uphill battle. Just walk forward, duck fans, watch out for f+2,1 and do what you can. Cause you can't play MK9 with Scorpion when Kitana's on the screen until you get at least one bar. lol

This constant reliance on meter also means you typically won't have a breaker either...God I hate that bitch.
 

ELC

Scrublord McGee
I agree Drebin, though I can see why some might think its 5-5

It's actually a bit of a rock-paper-scissors match. proactive Ice Ball and Ice Puddle beats Spear and Hellfire, reactive Spear and Hellfire beat Ice Clones, proactive Ice Clones beat Teleport, reactive Teleport beats Ice Ball and Ice Puddle, being capable of blocking low beats Takedown and Slide. The difference is that Sub-Zero relies heavily on a proactive assault whereas Scorpion is reactive, meaning as long the Scorpion has good reflexes, he can punish whatever the Sub-Zero is doing. Not sure how the matchup changes with meter, but I'm guessing Scorpion has the upper hand with a well-timed EX Spear.
 
When Scorpion has meter against Subz the ice ball is completely shut down because the recovery is so bad that Scorpion can :en Spear from full screen & still land it
 

ELC

Scrublord McGee
How does one go about the Raiden/Freddy/Smoke matchups? Teleport/Dream Shift/Smoke Away-Towards is really killing me.
 

Jet3000

Let’s go crazy!
Just a few changes, but I agree with most.

5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
6-4 vs Cyrax
5-5 vs Ermac
xxx vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
5-5 vs Jax
4-6 vs Johnny Cage
4-6 vs Kabal
5-5 vs Kano
xxx vs Kenshi
4-6 vs Kitana
4-6 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
5-5 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
5-5 vs Noob Saibot
5-5 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs Raiden
xxx vs Rain
4-6 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Sektor
5-5 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
5-5 vs Sindel
xxx vs Skarlet
5-5 vs Smoke
5-5 vs Sonya Blade
5-5 vs Stryker
5-5 vs Sub-Zero

And gg at Evo btw Konqrr, I was hella salty afterwards. :p But you lived up to your hype when we played and was very solid. Nice stuff.
Cyrax vs Scorpion is not in Scorpion's favor, with all those bombs and other in the way makes a eazy 80% Combo so i think this MU is 4-6 Cyrax IMO
 

ELC

Scrublord McGee
Cyrax vs Scorpion is not in Scorpion's favor, with all those bombs and other in the way makes a eazy 80% Combo so i think this MU is 4-6 Cyrax IMO
See above posts: Slips made a typo. Cyrax is about as bad of a matchup as Kitana is.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Scorpion can whiff teleports vs reptile even when in standing block animation by doing qcf 3 right as you pass over his head during a crossup jump. The timing isn't strict at all and as long as reptiles blocking animation is facing the direction you teleport in from it will whiff. It is 100% punishable if sniffed out but it's something. If anyone has a similar stand block hitbox it'll probably work on them also. I tried against mileena and kitana but it didn't work.

I randomly got teleports to work with my back facing the corner against characters like sub. If I crossup jump kick really deep and cancel into teleport it would whiff sometimes but I couldn't do it every time.

If theres more ways to whiff his teleport vs standing characters or other situations it could help him lead to some good pressure.