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Why Sub Zero Should Not Be Nerfed. The GrandMaster Speaks.

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John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
wtf is this? "vortex is okayyy, because overhead is unsafe"... do you realize most of the characters doesn't even have 50/50 (or just an overhead) combo starter?

and it's not like his neutral sucks, it's actually amazing. Amazing pokes, amazing range, amazing damage, you cannot trade projectiles vs iceball, space control with air axes... bUt HiS oVerHeaD Is uNSafE
Preachh
 

Gruntypants

THE MUFFINS ARE BEEFY
The only thing I want to see nerfed is sub zeros slide. It's too fast to react to even at 3/4 screen. Also the hitbox on blocked slide is bs, all my highs will whiff, so it should be more than -15 on block.
 

Gruntypants

THE MUFFINS ARE BEEFY
Disagree with what you said.

But points for the profile pic. Good album.
What do you disagree with? His slide is literally the only special I can't block on reaction, even at half screen plus distance. Scorps teleport? No problem. The wonky hitbox is a fact and it should either be fixed or made more negative on block. The slide is way too safe for being an unsafe move.
 
Slide is already -20 on block, how unsafe do you want it to be, be unsafe as Scorpion's Spear? Lol

Moves like Sub-Zero's Slide, Jade's or Johnny's dash kick, Liu Kang's dash kick, Jacqui's dash punch, Kitana's butt move (dk what its called, just to name a few) are dash-in moves, are unsafe on block, and hence are supposed to be fast, Also, they are fairly easy to predict. When playing against Sub-Zero in the neutral game at mid-screen, always keep a lookout and assume that Sub-Zero is planning to Slide when possible. Space out to get out of the range, or you can cautiously approach him, then block LOW to counter it. You are just asking for it if you keeping spamming HIGH projectiles against Sub-Zero, or casually set up a support move with considerable startup or active frames. Can't believe people need a Sub-Zero player to teach others how to play against Sub-Zero himself lol.

Don't nerf the character, buff your own skill people (by practicing). Know the matchup, predict the playstyle, then kounter accordingly. No hate, but its FACTS
 

Samsara

Resident Cynic
The only thing I want to see nerfed is sub zeros slide. It's too fast to react to even at 3/4 screen. Also the hitbox on blocked slide is bs, all my highs will whiff, so it should be more than -15 on block.
Fuck off. You guys got clone killed, you think ice ball is too strong, and now slide is too fast.

Watch Sub Zero have 0 special moves in MK12
 

Dogeofthesea

Apprentice
Isn't this like complaining about MK9 Scorpion's vortex? Pretty comparable it seems.

-Most in MK9 didn't have it.
-B2 and F4, Spear led to big damage and a vortex, but were full combo punishable.
-Or he could stay safe with F4, Takedown.
-On top of the damage and vortex, you had to worry about staggers with 1 or 1,1 or 1,1,1 and throw.

I wouldn't say in hindsight that Scorpion was playing MKX while most others were playing MK9.

(which is what that video claimed after he ate consecutive unsafe overheads)
Do you know that in MK9 Scorpion had the worst footsie in the game? d1 -15 on block and -1 on hit. d4 is short and -1 on hit. Ex take down -5 on hit. Hellfire (the unblockable flame move) is -1 on hit. His 111 is the best string but DOESN'T COMBO INTO SPEAR because of MK9 mechanics. You have to hit confirm from 11 and that's insane because of how fast 11 is. And why the hell do you think takedown was safe?
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
My two cents is that F24 should be an automatic string with F2 only and you have to commit with no special cancel. Do that and I have no problem with his mix. Having a variation that is strong counter zoning via the AMP'd ice ball is still strong, and the trade off is you get the slide in his other.
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
Do you know that in MK9 Scorpion had the worst footsie in the game? d1 -15 on block and -1 on hit. d4 is short and -1 on hit. Ex take down -5 on hit. Hellfire (the unblockable flame move) is -1 on hit. His 111 is the best string but DOESN'T COMBO INTO SPEAR because of MK9 mechanics. You have to hit confirm from 11 and that's insane because of how fast 11 is. And why the hell do you think takedown was safe?
I know this. MK11 Sub-Zero is better than MK9 Scorpion. But the vortex is comparable. Which is what a lot of people seem to take issue with and specifically what that video claimed was MKX-like. Which is silly.

And MK9 Scorpion's Takedown was safe.
 

mrapchem

Apprentice
FACTS

1) Despite his mix-up versatility, Sub-Zero LACKS in raw damage department compared to most other characters (eg. ErronBlack, SonyaBlade, NoobSaibot just to name a few). His 1 meter combos are LOWER than meterless combos of some characters in the game, requiring Sub-Zero players to play very smartly and utilize his KBs and Fatal Blow to cash out damage. Sub-Zero players know this, but other players choose to ignore this (out of spite perhaps).

2) His amplified IceBall is only available in 1 variation (Dead on Winter), not to mention his Slide (hits LOW) is also replaced by Cold Shoulder (hits MID and slightly harder, but is slower and dashes a shorter distance) in this variation as well. Hence, Sub-Zero only has TWO special moves in this so-called OP variation, limiting his playstyle in a game where teleporting (Scorpion/Noob/KungLao etc) and projectile spamming (ahem Skarlet, thus requiring him to use ExIceBall duh) is so common. Also, he can't punish his opponents from afar with Slide anymore as well, not to mention his Slide/Cold Shoulder are very unsafe on block.

3) While the ExIceBall grants Sub-Zero ability to execute full Overhead combos as well as absorb projectiles, it requires Sub-Zero to utilise 1 bar of meter, and the damage output for this 1 meter overhead combo is not spectacular at all, proven by the video. It's laughable that people do not mention about ErronBlack's pistol special move that can swiftly destroy enemy projectiles as well (both meterless and amplified), even Sub-Zero's amplified IceBall @.@

3) People always define Sub-Zero as a mix-up god, but they do not realise that aside from the first hit of his kombos, Sub-Zero is the ONLY character in the game where ALL of his kombo strings only hit MID. Therefore, if someone manages to block Sub-Zero successfully on the first hit, all he/she needs to do is to block LOW. Example, his overhead string hits OVERHEAD, MID, MID, and his low string hits LOW, MID, MID, you get my drift. Therefore, he is not as OP as losers portray him to be.

In conclusion, no, Sub-Zero does not need a nerf. Players need to learn how to counter and overcome each character in the game through TRAINING, and not RAGE and COMPLAIN about Sub-Zero being OP whenever they lose to Sub-Zero's exIceBall @.@ I feel that his low damage output already justifies the reason that he should not be nerfed. As what MKTomBrady said in his other video, ragers be like "Imma do my mix, and you gonna do your mix, and if your mix beat my mix, your mix got to go". Quite ironic that aside from his one OVERHEAD starter (19 startup btw, easily punished and kountered by faster moves) and one LOW starter (13 startup), his kombo strings all hit MID, so his mix-ups are not that strong as people say. So no more hating on Sub-Zero alright, just practice and be better at playing the game before you complain next time. Cheers
All. Of. This.
 

Perk

coffee now
My two cents is that F24 should be an automatic string with F2 only and you have to commit with no special cancel.
do you mean that f2 auto completes the 4 after? I've gone to very sparingly using the f2 after the first week after everyone learned how to block and punish for it. If they really need to change anything on sub, I could see f2 just not special cancelling. BUT, if we're going that rout, let f2 hit out of the air. can't tell you how many times people jump it and the axes visually go through the character. if we're gonna take that cancel out of his tools, if I want to risk throwing out the F2, I'd like a better hotbox.
 

Dante

Mortal
Honestly, sub zero feels like what every character in the game should be. He is alot stronger than most of the cast, but thats because most of the cast isnt really well designed. On that note, other chars should get buffed
 
D

Deleted member 61096

Guest
Mind blowing people want this character nerfed. Same people probably want all the f3’s removed from injustice.

If the character doesn’t have meter it’s not even a guess and yeah you can fuzzy it.

Only think I would nerf is the slide as well. His entire dead of winter mix is super punishable and if you can’t jab punish then go beat your grandmother at Mario party to feel good about yourself.

He has to play by the rules of game unlike Geras and erron.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
A lot of people don't really want to learn, they just want to complain over and over and are not even bothering exploring the training mode options this game is given to actually learn how to defend themselves.

I really do hope NRS takes a good look at most of those cries and ingnores it, there isn't really much to be changed in this game at all.
 

DragonofDadashov24

Let’s see whose fire burns hotter
A lot of people don't really want to learn, they just want to complain over and over and are not even bothering exploring the training mode options this game is given to actually learn how to defend themselves.

I really do hope NRS takes a good look at most of those cries and ingnores it, there isn't really much to be changed in this game at all.
So you would leave Sub and Erron the way they are?
Cage, Jade, fucking Cetrion?
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
I don't think Sub-Zero is overpowered, I think he's braindead, sometimes people tend to confuse the two, especially people who main a braindead character that still want some modicum of recognition for being a 'decent player.'
This is facts.
He is linear like lines.

------------insert sub-zero here------------

Part of me likes that he's so strong.
Part of me thinks 50/50's are the devil.
 

Dogeofthesea

Apprentice
I know this. MK11 Sub-Zero is better than MK9 Scorpion. But the vortex is comparable. Which is what a lot of people seem to take issue with and specifically what that video claimed was MKX-like. Which is silly.

And MK9 Scorpion's Takedown was safe.
It was -21 according to this expert https://testyourmight.com/threads/scorpion-frame-data.12489/
I found takedown hard to punish, but that was because of its weird blockstun, recovery and MK9 stupid mechanics
 
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