Why Sub Zero Should Not Be Nerfed. The GrandMaster Speaks.

[sub_on_dubs]

As some of you may know, Sub Zero has a history of being really good when the game comes out, but then shortly after the game comes out, he gets nerfed into oblivion while other characters get to keep their dirt. I say let everyone have their dirt until there's an abundance of evidence to suggest that they should be nerfed. Let's at least wait until we have a few majors under our belt. In this video, Tom Brady speaks about why Sub Zero should not be nerfed. Besides making a lot of good points about why they should let him be, it's highly entertaining. I could not control my laughter at certain points in this video, but I will let the grandmaster do the speaking for me as only he can do, with intelligence and a side of humor.

 

[Braindead]

I wasn't aware that attempting to blow up the fuzzy block in the vortex makes the low whiff. Good stuff.

 

[Braindead]

The rant in the last 3 minutes oh my god fucking gold. I'm dead.

TELL 'EM TOM!!!!!!!!

 

[M.D.]

The fear is real.

Only for the reason that this nerf panic exists he should be nerfed.

Make him feel the a-list pain.

Ok watched the entire thing, it's full of crap as I thought.

99% of the time i'm gonna flawless block this -> misses 5 flawless blocks. Good luck doing that with 10% life in the tournament bub. Nerf that shit.

Then about the mixup, he spent the entire video "if he delays it, if he does that, if he does that". Brah, that's called GUESSING. It's called a MIXup and it is there.
The problem is not that it is there, the problem is that it is SAFE. He doesn't do overhead in ice ball, he does the kicks. As many times as it takes, you still die.
If you guess one right, TOUGH luck. Back in the blender.

Everyone with a mixup should have one option -20 or more. The balanced mixup chars in the game have this. He guesses your mixup, YOU EAT 30% period.

That is the problem here and he mentions none of that, obviously.

Nerf that piece of crap character back to mid tier.
And yes, along with erron, obviously.

 

[Moms4lif3]

I myself find the concept of 50/50s kinda stupid and think it should always be high risk, low reward. In this case we are not even talking about a true 50/50 tho, so clearly people are just lazy and want shit to be as easy as possible -.- I don’t understand how people were fine with the mix in MKX and complain about this kinda stuff wtf

 

[sub_on_dubs]

The fear is real.

Only for the reason that this nerf panic exists he should be nerfed.

Make him feel the a-list pain.


99% of the time i'm gonna flawless block this -> misses 5 flawless blocks. Good luck doing that with 10% life in the tournament bub. Nerf that shit.

I think flawless block online will definitely be unreliable, but offline is doable. Slayer is already flawless blocking consistently and the game has only been out a week.

 

[M.D.]

They were fine with the mix because they had it as well.

Play Kitana here vs Subzero and see what mix you have.

I can tell you, it's a 50-50 between going back to char select or guessing 50 mixups while trying to play footsies with 3 mid strings and hope you whiff punish something. In subzero's case, you can't.

 

[Geoffmeister]

+22 is enough time for a dash into the B3... tho... I don't see how this fuzzy argument holds any merit here... ... ???? (literally just tested this)

Subs f4 isn't a problem... it's one of those Must-Flawless-Block moves... for some silly reason not everyone can capitalize off it though..

And imo,, Sub shouldn't be touched too hard, his overall toolkit is a bit too strong but he's not on the same stupid levels.. stupid but not THAT stupid.

 

[james1926]

The fear is real.

Only for the reason that this nerf panic exists he should be nerfed.

Make him feel the a-list pain.

Ok watched the entire thing, it's full of crap as I thought.

99% of the time i'm gonna flawless block this -> misses 5 flawless blocks. Good luck doing that with 10% life in the tournament bub. Nerf that shit.

Then about the mixup, he spent the entire video "if he delays it, if he does that, if he does that". Brah, that's called GUESSING. It's called a MIXup and it is there.
The problem is not that it is there, the problem is that it is SAFE. He doesn't do overhead in ice ball, he does the kicks. As many times as it takes, you still die.
If you guess one right, TOUGH luck. Back in the blender.

Everyone with a mixup should have one option -20 or more. The balanced mixup chars in the game have this. He guesses your mixup, YOU EAT 30% period.

That is the problem here and he mentions none of that, obviously.

Nerf that piece of crap character back to mid tier.
And yes, along with erron, obviously.

The kicks are punishable too man.

 

[JBeezYBabY]

Listen, NOBODY should be nerfed! Im getting tired of NRS scene always screaming nerfs when the devs need to start the habit of buffing lower tier characters to catch up to the good ones. Sub does not need any nerfs whatsoever. If anything, i would buff his damage output a bit.

 

[M.D.]

Sure thing, buff the rest of the cast to Erron tier, then we can play mkx again > : )

 

[JBeezYBabY]

Sure thing, buff the rest of the cast to Erron tier, then we can play mkx again > : )

It would make the game waaaaaaay more fucking fun, thats for damn sure! I mean, they buffed Scorpion and made his frames better. Why not Sub? He seems like a pretty solid character but his moves are a bit weak. Give him more damage and Sub is a fucking monster!

 

[The_Tile]

Listen, NOBODY should be nerfed! Im getting tired of NRS scene always screaming nerfs when the devs need to start the habit of buffing lower tier characters to catch up to the good ones. Sub does not need any nerfs whatsoever. If anything, i would buff his damage output a bit.

Buff his damage lol

 

[sub_on_dubs]

I'm pretty much expecting them to nerf Dead of Winter mostly because of the outcry from certain players like Dragon, but please don't touch Thin Ice. I think it's a really solid variation and you can't freeze after F2 in this variation. The most you can do is finish the string which is hella negative or amplified slide which is also hella negative and sends the opponent full screen which leads to no opportunity for another 50/50. For me, he's the only the character that's enjoyable to play at the moment so that would be a bummer if they did.

 

[JBeezYBabY]

I'm pretty much expecting them to nerf Dead of Winter mostly because of the outcry from certain players like Dragon, but please don't touch Thin Ice. I think it's a really solid variation and you can't freeze after F2 in this variation. The most you can do is finish the string which hella negative or amplified slide which is also hella negative and sends the opponent full screen which leads to no opportunity for another 50/50.

See....I HAAAATE that Top players are asking for nerfs already! Fuck that. Thats how D'vorah died and ill be damned if NRS kills another character because some top little boy has an outcry for characters. We seriously need to stray away from this nerf culture. Its too common in NRS which is sad....We're not Smash Bros!

 

[Eldagrin]

I would rather just have them take away Sub’s 50/50 vortex since you can’t really fuzzy starters but he can keep everything else. I want them to nerf Sonya’s 50/50 too because b12 vs b14 ERC in the corner is the dumbest shit ever. Most of the characters in this game only really need fairly minor nerfs to bring them in line. The game feels pretty balanced off early impressions.

 

[SaSSolino]

Brady is back I see.

Nerf that shit.

 

[sub_on_dubs]

See....I HAAAATE that Top players are asking for nerfs already! Fuck that. Thats how D'vorah died and ill be damned if NRS kills another character because some top little boy has an outcry for characters. We seriously need to stray away from this nerf culture. Its too common in NRS which is sad....We're not Smash Bros!

Not going happen in this day and age. It would have been hilarious to see the reaction of today's gamers to old fighting games that were actually broken, but people played them anyway and had fun. The mentality back in the day was to try to overcome really cheap tactics by just outplaying your opponent and avoid putting yourself in a situation where you could lose. I'm glad games are way more balanced than they used to be, but the nerf culture is definitely a problem that has no end in sight unfortunately.

 

[Moms4lif3]

I feel like the ‚nerfing culture‘ in NRS games gets better over time tho. This game is pretty well balanced for week 1 I feel, but some characters could use slight buffs in order to make them way better and some other character could be slightly nerfed to make them a bit less overwhelming.

I for example play kotal and geras, I simply like both characters a lot. BUT I already feel like the difference between these two is quite significant.

Kotal is way too unsafe on many of his strings and making some of them safer would be a HUGE help for him. It would take the character from pretty bad to pretty good imo.

Geras just has everything. Good strings, mix ups, damage, versatility. I feel like taking him to kotal‘s damage level would make him way more fair, feel less cheap and the character would still have ALL the tools to be good.

I feel like buffing the bottom tier and slightly nerfing the top tiers would already influence the meta in a very good way. Some people want all characters to have crazy good shit like geras, but honestly he feels a little overpowered. I like playing him, but yea, he is a little TOO good.

If all characters had tools like him, this game would be really fucking crazy and I like it more ‚normal’ to be honest.

 

[Moms4lif3]

To add to the topic: a possible nerf for sub would be to add like 2-4 frames on his oh. He would still have mix, but it would be way easier to fuzzy guard. I don’t feel that would destroy the character, but make him slightly more fair, I do not see any other things that would need to be addressed at all. I play sub too btw, I like good characters

 

[Marinjuana]

I don't know man I think I'd rather just complain

 

[Kanalratte]

If anything, i would buff his damage output a bit.

yeah besides that bring back his clone in all his variations. that would make him perfectly balanced. /irony off

 

[RM Ree]

They should take Kold Shoulder away from DoW. That way he only has one special move in ex ice ball and less damage overall.

 

[GLoRToR]

As some of you may know, Sub Zero has a history of being really good when the game comes out, but then shortly after the game comes out, he gets nerfed into oblivion while other characters get to keep their dirt. I say let everyone have their dirt until there's an abundance of evidence to suggest that they should be nerfed. Let's at least wait until we have a few majors under our belt. In this video, Tom Brady speaks about why Sub Zero should not be nerfed. Besides making a lot of good points about why they should let him be, it's highly entertaining. I could not control my laughter at certain points in this video, but I will let the grandmaster do the speaking for me as only he can do, with intelligence and a side of humor.

I don't think he should be nerfed, I think his options should be just as negative as others'.
I don't want him destroyed, I want his guessing game to be risky, for his overhead and his low to both be heavily punishable if someone guesses right. This is only fair.

 

[Apex Kano]

Sub Zero OH just needs more start up and lower his dmg from his crushing blows. Nothing crazy to nerf on him, I'm glad he is respectable again.