Scorpion Frame Data

[Somberness]

How to understand this.
Execution (singular | cumulative)
1 - 12
1,1 - 16 | 31
1,1,1 - 15 | 50
1,1,4 - 17 | 52
2 - 12
2,1 - 16 | 29
2,1,2 - 21 | 53
2,1+2 - 19 | 32
3 - 10
3,3 - 12 | 24
3,3,4 - 19 | 46
4 - 21
D+1 - 6
D+2 - 10
D+3 - 7
D+4 - 12
B+2 - 18
B+4 - 16
F+2 - 19
F+2,1 - 16 | 39
F+2,1,4 - 26 | 68
F+3 - 26
F+4 - 17
F+4,3 - 13 | 34
Throw - 10
Spear - 13
Spear (full screen) - 34
Demon Fire - 22
Teleport - 35
Teleport (air, minimum) - 23
Takedown - 21
Air Throw - 8
Flame Spear - 13
Flame Spear (full screen) - 34
Hell Fire - 22
Flameport - 35, 58 second hit
Flameport (air, minimum) - 23, 42 second hit
Takeout - 21
Scorpion Sting - 37 (freezes both characters for 8 frames, lowering the total to 29 frames for linking purposes)

Advantage (block | hit)
1 - 0 | 0
1,1 - 0 | 0
1,1,1 - 0 | +7
1,1,4 - -8 | +16, +14
2 - 0 | 0
2,1 - 0 | 0
2,1,2 - -21 | +29, +37
2,1+2 - -20 | +28, +11
3 - -7 | +6
3,3 - -8 | +2
3,3,4 - -2 | +46, +29
4 - -5 | +4
D+1 - -13 | +1
D+1 (vs crouch) - -13 | -1
D+2 - -1 | +31, +24
D+3 - -7 | -7
D+3 (vs crouch) - -7 | -6
D+4 - 0 | 0
D+4 (vs crouch) - 0 | -6
B+2 - -25 | +60, +49
B+4 - -6 | +17, +14
F+2 - -9 | +1
F+2,1 - -10 | +4
F+2,1,4 - -15 | +42, +18
F+3 - 0 | +6
F+4 - -5 | +1
F+4,3 - -9 | +1
Forward Throw - N/A | +11
Backward Throw - N/A | +10
Spear - -27 | +77
Spear (full screen) -27 | +83
Teleport - -43 | +37
Takedown - -4 | +1
Flame Spear - -27 | +77
Flame Spear - -27 | +83
Flameport - +10 | +67, +39
Takeout - -4 | +1
Scorpion Sting - -2 | +9

Duration (whiff | block | hit)
1 - 25 | 25 | 25
1,1 - 48 | 48 | 48
1,1,1 - 68 | 69 | 69
1,1,4 - 87 | 87 | 87
2 - 30 | 30 | 30
2,1 - 44 | 44 | 44
2,1,2 - 101 | 101 | 101
2,1+2 - 79 | 79 | 79
3 - 37 | 37 | 37
3,3 - 52 | 52 | 52
3,3,4 - 75 | 75 | 75
4 - 53 | 53 | 53
D+1 - 25 | 25 | 25
D+2 - 49 | 38 | 63
D+3 - 20 | 20 | 20
D+4 - 33 | 33 | 33
B+2 - 70 | 70 | 52
B+4 - 48 | 48 | 48
F+2 - 55 | 55 | 55
F+2,1 - 76 | 76 | 76
F+2,1,4 - 110 | 110 | 110
F+3 - 46 | 46 | 46
F+4 - 49 | 49 | 49
F+4,3 - 70 | 70 | 62
Forward Throw - 36 | N/A | 178
Backward Throw - 36 | N/A | 195
Spear - 95 | 59 | 113
Demon Fire - 68 | N/A | 98
Teleport - 48 (20 in front, 28 behind) | 97 | 48
Teleport (air, minimum) - 32 (14 in front, 18 behind) | N/A | N/A
Takedown - 63 | 52 | 91
Flame Spear - 95 | 59 | 113
Hell Fire - 68 | N/A | 98
Flameport - 75 (20 in front, 55 behind) | 75 | 75
Flameport (air, minimum) - 59 (14 in front, 45 behind) | N/A | N/A
Takeout - 63 | 52 | 91
Scorpion Sting - 66 | 66 | 463

Cancel Advantage (block | hit)
1 - +17 | +23
1,1 - +16 | +27
1,1,1 - +18 | +17
2 - +19 | +33
2,1 - +24 | +28
2,1+2 - +18 | +66, +49
3 - +18 | +31
3,3 - +17 | +27
4 - +25 | +33
D+1 - 0 | +14
D+1 (vs crouch) - 0 | +12
D+3 - +2 | +8
D+3 (vs crouch) - +2 | +7
D+4 - +24 | +18
D+4 (vs crouch) - +24 | +12
F+2 - +23 | +33
F+2,1 - +24 | +38
F+4 - +23 | +29
F+4,3 - +20 | +22

Miscellaneous
Breaker (when grounded vs grounded opponent) - ~+12, ~+11
Flame Spear - armor on frames 2-37
Takeout - armor on frames 2-23
Scorpion Sting - invincibility on frames 1-27 (not sure, but he can be hit once he switches sides)
1,1,4 - 1 frame gap
3,3,4 - 2 frame gap
F+2,1,4 - 2 frame gap
Flameport - 3 frame gap

 

[Somberness]

Yes, his down 4 is that bad (0 on hit).

 

[Playpal]

looooool at D4 being 0 on hit. What if it was on crouch hit though? Also surprised ex tele is +10.

 

[Slips]

The d+3 on hit is even more sad.

 

[ELC]

D4 seems decent; certainly better than D3 and arguably better than D1.

Shame to see 2,1,2 has much negative advantage on block, since I thought it was Scorpion's only quick low-risk overhead. Seems as though Scorpion players will have to set-up the vortex first before they can start checking with F3 (way too slow startup to use against a neutral opponent) or forgo checking altogether.

 

[Playpal]

What a shame, D4 has such good range too. I see Scorpion's D4 being of limited use if it's not +12. Maybe if you wanted to condition your opponent to block low, then hit them with the over head? I guess any one who knows the scorpion match up will try to D1 out of pressure after being hit with D4.

 

[PimpUigi]

The d+3 on hit is even more sad.

You're not kidding. The Dominicans and I were making fun of it in their hotel room.
Thank you so much for this Somber!

 

[ELC]

Brief Analysis of Frame Data (aka A Little Late, ELC?)
Takedown seems like a nice addition to any of his blockstrings, especially since his frame trap capabilities are very poor.
3,3xxSpear seems like the go-to starter for close-range punishes, otherwise, naked Spear seems like it would do just as well.
D4 is still pretty good: not the best, but it's better on block than D1 and better than D3 overall.
Speaking of D3, Scorpion seems to have some pretty fast footsie pokes (D1, D3, 1), though I'm skeptical whether they are effective, and if they are, at what range.
Finally Vortex is fuzzyable on 1 frame, which means its pretty damn good.

 

[PimpUigi]

So Spear and :enSpear is -95 on whiff, and -27 on block.
Interesting.
While Hellfire is -68 on whiff.
I think normalizing Hellfire and Spear to make Spear and :enSpear 68 frames would be fair.

If not make Spear and :enSpear 46 frames (10 frames past where the spear leaves full screen).

 

[xenogorgeous]

yeah, if you whiff Scorpion's Spear, you can just cry out salty, lol, because the animation remain enough time for you to be punished pratically by anything your oponent chooses .... haha

 

[ELC]

So Spear and :enSpear is -95 on whiff, and -27 on block.
Interesting.
While Hellfire is -68 on whiff.
I think normalizing Hellfire and Spear to make Spear and :enSpear 68 frames would be fair.

If not make Spear and :enSpear 46 frames (10 frames past where the spear leaves full screen).

Actually, wouldn't it be 68 - 22 = -46 on whiff? Or would you actually include the startup?

Anyhow, making suggestions for buffs, either as patches or for the next iteration of the series, should probably go in a separate thread. Not a bad idea now that I think about it ... I'll go ahead and start one in the MK10 subforums.

 

[PimpUigi]

Yeah, I included the startup of hellfire which is 22. If hellfire misses that's 68 frames of you not being able to block.

 

[Somberness]

Actually, wouldn't it be 68 - 22 = -46 on whiff? Or would you actually include the startup?

Anyhow, making suggestions for buffs, either as patches or for the next iteration of the series, should probably go in a separate thread. Not a bad idea now that I think about it ... I'll go ahead and start one in the MK10 subforums.

Duration is the total time it takes for a move to complete, so it includes the startup.

Yeah, I included the startup of hellfire which is 22. If hellfire misses that's 68 frames of you not being able to block.

The startup of it is actually 21, the 22 is the execution number which includes the first active frame. I'm just following what others have started but I don't like it because of things like parries where the total number would be longer than the duration of the move. There's really no reason to use execution over startup. You know, I might just change it all.

 

[THTB]

Hellfire is 0 on hit.

Am I the only one who is pleasantly surprised at seeing this, considering Tom said it was -1?

 

[PimpUigi]

Yeah, I'm happy to see that myself.
And Somberness, I'm happy with the way you did the frame data, I think it's perfect.
How could it possibly be improved upon? It works the exact way I think it would work, 22 being the first active frame.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

You are so awesome for doing this! Including frame advantage and what not.

Could you do Sektor next?! Paweeeze?!

 

[Slips]

Yeah, I'm happy to see that myself.
And Somberness, I'm happy with the way you did the frame data, I think it's perfect.
How could it possibly be improved upon? It works the exact way I think it would work, 22 being the first active frame.

Agreed. Went ahead and stickied this thread since it has more information than the previous. And yes, hellfire 0 on block is interesting.

 

[Big Pampering]

Agreed. Went ahead and stickied this thread since it has more information than the previous. And yes, hellfire 0 on block is interesting.

wouldnt this be easy to test? do a hellfire at point blank against another scorpion and both do the d1 at the very first possible frame. if the trade is random, i dont think its -1

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Whiffed spear should be around the same recovery as subs ice blast.... not the duration that an opponent can be frozen. That had to be a major eff up.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

wouldnt this be easy to test? do a hellfire at point blank against another scorpion and both do the d1 at the very first possible frame. if the trade is random, i dont think its -1

that seems like a horrible way to do it. Why not simply use the b2 and f4... since one is faster by 1 frame.

 

[charlieonline]

I would like clarification on Scorpion's 1. It used to be listed as 9 and now it's 12. It seems a lot faster than 12. How come his 1 looks fast but is 12 in speed?

 

[Pagan]

I really hope NRS sees this if they plan on patching the game again.

Also, i always knew hellfire was 0 on hit from testing it out but I'm happy that somberness can confirm what suspected. It CAN get some advantage if you anti-air someone at the height of hellfire's hit box which is pointless lol.

 

[Playpal]

I would like clarification on Scorpion's 1. It used to be listed as 9 and now it's 12. It seems a lot faster than 12. How come his 1 looks fast but is 12 in speed?

When was his standing 1 ever 12? Dr Dogg has it listed as 12 if you check the old thread.

 

[charlieonline]

When was his standing 1 ever 12? Dr Dogg has it listed as 12 if you check the old thread.

I could swear I saw it listed somewhere as 9. I might be confused, because I play Sub and his 2 is 9 but looks slower than Scorpion's 1 yet 1 is 12. That's kinda slow IMO yet Scorpion's 111 seems easy to get started.

Take Noob for instance, his 2 is 10 yet seems slower than Scorpion's 1 at 12 frames.

 

[Pagan]

I would like clarification on Scorpion's 1. It used to be listed as 9 and now it's 12. It seems a lot faster than 12. How come his 1 looks fast but is 12 in speed?

It certainly doesn't feel anywhere near 9 frames to me. I really wish it was 9 frames because it would help a lot. Part of the reason might stem from how it's animated. Some moves have very subtle start up frames such as a footsweep. Thus a footsweep can look fast but in reality be 17 frames. For example: Smoke's b4.