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Match-up Discussion The New Kenshi MU Chart - Prepare for Debate

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Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
Do you think baraka is 8-2 instead of 9-1?

I was originally giving barakas props

real talk, ive never seen his win pose
I would give baraka a little more credit due to a couple of things. He at least has a safe armored way in with the EX Blade Charge. I'm not saying it's great, but a full screen armored mobility move that goes unpunished is more than a lot of characters have. And the corner. I feel like Baraka's options make his corner pressure pretty good too. Definitely not a good MU for him, but I wouldn't say its as bad as 9 - 1.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I was about to on Friday but someone pulled you to the side.

After that I dont really know, Im kind of lazy when it comes to that stuff tbh

Edit: And yeah that shit was so fun lol
Pig Of The Hut

vs baraka 9-1??
not by the hairs on my chinny chin chin :p

imo kabal vs baraka is at highest possible level of both players knowing the MU 100% is 8-2 and id play a kenshi over kabal anyday with baraka,
that my other char is mileena who really does get raped and shutdown by kenshi,using baraka in the MU is not as bad to play.
i sure its possible with while you've played a baraka and made it look 9-1 or even that you have cage marked at 8-2 and most of this kommunity wrongly sees baraka as the poor mans cage so hence baraka is 9-1.

imo theres no way its a 9-1 MU,
*not many chars can punish a max range whiffed shoulder for any damage outside blockstring without having to risk jumping,
*not many chars can use a bar of meter to be right on top off you and out trade you completly if u tried TF/ex TF, kenshi has to also use a bar if he wants to punish ex charge or max range normal charge and like in all MUs fear of the charge will help inch in also
*even the stupid thing of not many chars can meter drain glitch kenshi by choice (22 1+2,d1 if u tried to ex thinking a f4 was coming u get the meter drain glitch from buffering a special when in block stun)
*his huge hitbox means its open up strings that would whiff on crouching opponents but hit kenshi neutral ducking.
*spark can be a annoyance to reflect because of its odd speed so even that is not totally shut down and opens up charges when your looking for sparks
*baraka does have resets where kenshis armor is not a option and he must guess right or lose 40%+ &/or be put in guessing game again.

while kenshi has a lot adv in the MU, he does not shut down barakas tools/options enough to make it 9-1 imo it walks the very fine line inbetween at 7.5-2.5 to 7-3, prob closer to 7-3,tough but no way unwinable and but i def wouldnt even call it a 2-8 at this point in time.
like im in no way trying to put you on blast here cause ya know i love ya but not so long ago u said kenshi rapes shang and now your thinking it could be 5-5/4-6 after you played woundcowboy so whatever it is that making u think baraka is 9-1 i hope u play a baraka soon that changes your mind
I would give baraka a little more credit due to a couple of things. He at least has a safe armored way in with the EX Blade Charge. I'm not saying it's great, but a full screen armored mobility move that goes unpunished is more than a lot of characters have. And the corner. I feel like Baraka's options make his corner pressure pretty good too. Definitely not a good MU for him, but I wouldn't say its as bad as 9 - 1.
Ok guys i went in to edit and give you guys the credit for the doubt i was having and change it to 8-2
then i noticed that he'd be 8-2 on same lines w cage, kit and said NO
Theres no way a top tier baraka player is on same par and level in difficulty as a top tier kit and cage
Something has to give here
thoughts?
 

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
Ok guys i went in to edit and give you guys the credit for the doubt i was having and change it to 8-2
then i noticed that he'd be 8-2 on same lines w cage, kit and said NO
Theres no way a top tier baraka player is on same par and level in difficulty as a top tier kit and cage
Something has to give here
thoughts?
IMO 9-1 sounds right. Jade *also* has a safe armored full screen attack (EX shadow kick) along with a few things that make this matchup not completely losing (overhead hops over and punishes shadow charge on read), but it's STILL 9-1. The only thing I could see making this MU 8-2 for Baraka is his corner game, but that means shit for Sub in this matchup, too.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Ok guys i went in to edit and give you guys the credit for the doubt i was having and change it to 8-2
then i noticed that he'd be 8-2 on same lines w cage, kit and said NO
Theres no way a top tier baraka player is on same par and level in difficulty as a top tier kit and cage
Something has to give here
thoughts?
I dont really care tbh. 9-1 or 8-2 is a small difference, they both freaking suck lol.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
IMO 9-1 sounds right. Jade *also* has a safe armored full screen attack (EX shadow kick) along with a few things that make this matchup not completely losing (overhead hops over and punishes shadow charge on read), but it's STILL 9-1. The only thing I could see making this MU 8-2 for Baraka is his corner game, but that means shit for Sub in this matchup, too.
yea if anyone should get points in the MU chart for corner game its cage and sub and they are currently 8-2 lol
 

Krayzie

Co-founder
Administrator
Founder
Pig Of The Hut - To solve the problem you have against H.Cyrax. He is fully punishable on teleport. He might have invincibility frames, but this does not mean he is not punishable.

And of course... Anti-Air...

There, I said it. The answer is Anti-Air.

Against Smoke - If you shoot a net, and anti-air before the net hits him on a shake reflect, it goes right through him.

Against Kenshi - If he reflects and Cyrax Anti-Airs, the net will go through him, but because of his huge hitbox, it wont go all the way through, instead, it will catch him on the end frames of his reflect and get raped by a 100% combo. - Solution? Just delay the reflect.

Against Nightwolf - Doesn't work against him, the spirits are strong with him.

Against the entire cast - For some reason, when you anti-air before the collision of a Cyrax projectile, the projectile goes through their body. What happens is that it wont juts go through, but it will go half way inside before the hitbox makes contact. Meaning if you use Ex-Bomb, and anti air a blocking opponent, you will get a free Ex-Ragdoll on block. You cant jump out, you cant armor out, or even D3 out. Cyrax is + and is able to frame trap an opponent from full screen.

Anyway, I'm just a 9th place scrub with a terrible Cyrax. I'm probably making all of this up anyway, so carry on and see you all at NEC.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Pig Of The Hut - To solve the problem you have against H.Cyrax. He is fully punishable on teleport. He might have invincibility frames, but this does not mean he is not punishable.

And of course... Anti-Air...

There, I said it. The answer is Anti-Air.

Against Smoke - If you shoot a net, and anti-air before the net hits him on a shake reflect, it goes right through him.

Against Kenshi - If he reflects and Cyrax Anti-Airs, the net will go through him, but because of his huge hitbox, it wont go all the way through, instead, it will catch him on the end frames of his reflect and get raped by a 100% combo. - Solution? Just delay the reflect.

Against Nightwolf - Doesn't work against him, the spirits are strong with him.

Against the entire cast - For some reason, when you anti-air before the collision of a Cyrax projectile, the projectile goes through their body. What happens is that it wont juts go through, but it will go half way inside before the hitbox makes contact. Meaning if you use Ex-Bomb, and anti air a blocking opponent, you will get a free Ex-Ragdoll on block. You cant jump out, you cant armor out, or even D3 out. Cyrax is + and is able to frame trap an opponent from full screen.

Anyway, I'm just a 9th place scrub with a terrible Cyrax. I'm probably making all of this up anyway, so carry on and see you all at NEC.
GGA HAN ^^^
L0rdoftheFLY

Wait so you mean to tell me if you shoot a net and do his AA move the net will have different properties and i have to wait hella to reflect?

And where/when is h cyrax punishable and what is he mINUS?
 

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
Ok guys i went in to edit and give you guys the credit for the doubt i was having and change it to 8-2
then i noticed that he'd be 8-2 on same lines w cage, kit and said NO
Theres no way a top tier baraka player is on same par and level in difficulty as a top tier kit and cage
Something has to give here
thoughts?
I don't think its crazy to put baraka and kitana on the same level. Kitana is far more fucked from full screen because she doesn't have ANY way to get in. Baraka AT LEAST has a far advancing safe armored move. And compare getting hit with a 10% Blade Spark to a 6% fan while zoning. He takes 40+ if he jumps an SC, which isn't kitana damage but its not that far from it. And Kitana's other big probably is that she doesn't have sustainable offense. Her offense starts and stutters, and she doesn't have a single normal that doesn't hit high that's worth a damn. Baraka at least has strings that start with mids that Kenshi won't be low poking under. And it's harder to tell when Baraka's strings are gonna start. Kitana's are easy to see.
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
Pig Of The Hut - To solve the problem you have against H.Cyrax. He is fully punishable on teleport. He might have invincibility frames, but this does not mean he is not punishable.

And of course... Anti-Air...

There, I said it. The answer is Anti-Air.

Against Smoke - If you shoot a net, and anti-air before the net hits him on a shake reflect, it goes right through him.

Against Kenshi - If he reflects and Cyrax Anti-Airs, the net will go through him, but because of his huge hitbox, it wont go all the way through, instead, it will catch him on the end frames of his reflect and get raped by a 100% combo. - Solution? Just delay the reflect.

Against Nightwolf - Doesn't work against him, the spirits are strong with him.

Against the entire cast - For some reason, when you anti-air before the collision of a Cyrax projectile, the projectile goes through their body. What happens is that it wont juts go through, but it will go half way inside before the hitbox makes contact. Meaning if you use Ex-Bomb, and anti air a blocking opponent, you will get a free Ex-Ragdoll on block. You cant jump out, you cant armor out, or even D3 out. Cyrax is + and is able to frame trap an opponent from full screen.

Anyway, I'm just a 9th place scrub with a terrible Cyrax. I'm probably making all of this up anyway, so carry on and see you all at NEC.
What the fuck. TO THE LAB
 

Krayzie

Co-founder
Administrator
Founder
GGA HAN ^^^
L0rdoftheFLY

Wait so you mean to tell me if you shoot a net and do his AA move the net will have different properties and i have to wait hella to reflect?

And where/when is h cyrax punishable and what is he mINUS?
For some reason projectiles wont make full contact with the hitbox until the end of Anti-Air.

Also, as far as the teleport goes. The misconception is that he is safe because of those invincibility frames, but he is actually vulnerable before and after his invincible frames. My advice is to punish right after.

If Cyrax teleports in the air, you will punish an air-born Cyrax, but if he teleports grounded, you will full punish a grounded Cyrax.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
For some reason projectiles wont make full contact with the hitbox until the end of Anti-Air.

Also, as far as the teleport goes. The misconception is that he is safe because of those invincibility frames, but he is actually vulnerable before and after his invincible frames. My advice is to punish right after.

If Cyrax teleports in the air, you will punish an air-born Cyrax, but if he teleports grounded, you will full punish a grounded Cyrax.
i require video, ive tried to punish this :(
 

Krayzie

Co-founder
Administrator
Founder
I have never been hit out of teleport if I block my opponents attacks on purpose. When both are attacking, i have had the trade go in kenshis favor but its usually cause I made the mistake.

I need video also
I don't have any way to record this. But its a guaranteed punish.

This is all stuff I've known about for months. I've tested the H.Cyrax thing with Chef and other SoCal players.
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Scorp 6-4 (possibly 5-5)
This MU is slight advantage Kenshi. Hellfire trades keep Kenshi's zoning honest. En Spear is also a big factor into forcing Kenshi to fight at closer distances. However, the slight advantage goes to Kenshi because it's hard for Scorpion to build meter for En Spear on his own.

Kenshi can just fight him between sweep and mid-screen to avoid the threat of Hellfire. At the same time making En Spear reactions harder.
 
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