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Strategy - Hellfire So, time we had a discussion about Hellfire

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
Can't Stunt Double effectively whiff punish it with a raw MRS?


Well I guess if you have them in the corner without Flame Aura activated yet and you don't have full stamina ready then yeah why not.
Yeah on read I guess he can

But I don't play SD much anymore and I much prefer Alist but there a few chars that can whiff punish because no hurtbox which pisses me off more

He won't get nerfed but I'm sure you agree this nerf makes sense and would not hurt his playstyle
 

kelevra

Steel cable bungee jumper
Nah I played like absalutely trash and he outplayed me.... bad day

I'm usually not that free

I feel HF wins but 6-4 nothing unbeatable
Not saying that you didn't get outplayed because that's obviously the case.
I'm just saying that you play an empty shell that once was a great character.
 

Jelan

Aquaman is dead lel
Premium Supporter
And I'm just waiting here, seeing if anyone can actually post a video of them doing f4 ~FBRC.
I've seen someone posting, maybe in this topic don't know, that F4 fbrc 2 is a 4 frame link. I'm not sure to be honest, I can do most HF cancel combos quite consistently, but I don't believe I've hit F4 into 2 and 4 frames is plenty of time, not that tight imo. Maybe I'm not cancelling the fb soon enough for this.

Can someone confirm if it works raw not just meaty please?
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Yeah on read I guess he can

But I don't play SD much anymore and I much prefer Alist but there a few chars that can whiff punish because no hurtbox which pisses me off more

He won't get nerfed but I'm sure you agree this nerf makes sense and would not hurt his playstyle
With all due respect I'm not sure if it does.

If other characters whiff one of their best buttons, they don't lose access to it for 8 seconds. Pretty sure that's the intended trade off behind it remaining active for the whole recovery.

I've seen someone posting, maybe in this topic don't know, that F4 fbrc 2 is a 4 frame link. I'm not sure to be honest, I can do most HF cancel combos quite consistently, but I don't believe I've hit F4 into 2 and 4 frames is plenty of time, not that tight imo. Maybe I'm not cancelling the fb soon enough for this.

Can someone confirm if it works raw not just meaty please?
F4~FBRC 214 is a 2f link. (Was actually a 1f link at the time I discovered it)

Into standing 3 however it's a 4f link. With proper execution it will work regardless of how meaty it hits.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
How is Hellfire high execution?

I can even do F4 fbrc 214 and i'm supposed to be a potato only user.

If you main the character and cannot do everything 10/10 besides F4 fbrc 214, idk what to tell you lol.
He is as hard as you want him to be. Sitting in training doing a 2 frame link is much different than when under pressure.

Conversions are a huge part of the character aswell and learning all the different ones is a learning curve.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
The more you argue the more you will prove my point so lets just keep going.

Yes, you neutral duck Cage's armor to punish it. That's because it's unpunishable on block. So you only have 1 way to punish his armor. Whereas with Scorp there is 2; Block it or jump to make it whiff.

Cassie's is punishable on block from afar and punishable on whiff up close. From both distances you are technically forced to block at one point or the other since there are two parts to it. You can't jump around and make it whiff like Takedown. So again, technically still 1 way to punish the armor vs. Scorpions 2 ways.

Predator's is punishable on block and only 1 hit of armor so there are 2 options to blow it up like Scorp's. I would argue the utility of it being a launcher if it connects gives it an edge though. But this is the only only armor move you've listed which has a legit argument of MAYBE being worse than Scorp's. And it's very debatable since it has more utility.

And thanks for proving my point yet again about letting Scorp come to you. Yes if you are sitting back you might eat an 8% hellfire, (which is very risky) or a 4% d4 which doesn't guaranteed any follow-up since it doesn't give him enough frames for a guaranteed follow-up. And he won't run meter to cancel his d4 to get a guaranteed follow-up since he has to use the run meter to get in.

My whole argument was that Scorpion cannot launch you and has to settle with low damage 50/50's, pokes and throws if you make him come to you which thwarts his explosiveness for comebacks.

This just proves you have no idea what I'm saying and you have no idea what you're talking about.
The only person who believes anything you say is yourself.

The downplay has to stop.
 

Jelan

Aquaman is dead lel
Premium Supporter
With all due respect I'm not sure if it does.


F4~FBRC 214 is a 2f link. (Was actually a 1f link at the time I discovered it)

Into standing 3 however it's a 4f link. With proper execution it will work regardless of how meaty it hits.
Thanks for the reply, going to get to grinding it out, 2 framers are still rather managable :3
 
I think they mean as a meaty on opponents' wakeups. That I know for sure works, and isn't that hard. Never seen it done otherwise...
I've seen someone posting, maybe in this topic don't know, that F4 fbrc 2 is a 4 frame link. I'm not sure to be honest, I can do most HF cancel combos quite consistently, but I don't believe I've hit F4 into 2 and 4 frames is plenty of time, not that tight imo. Maybe I'm not cancelling the fb soon enough for this.

Can someone confirm if it works raw not just meaty please?
Yea some people claim it's possible but again, till I see someone post a video of it im not believing it. You can't cancel f4 into FBRC too fast because the fireball will just come out. He'll even b12~FBRC seems too tight.
 

Icefyre

Shadows
Yea some people claim it's possible but again, till I see someone post a video of it im not believing it. You can't cancel f4 into FBRC too fast because the fireball will just come out. He'll even b12~FBRC seems too tight.
f4~FBRC into 214 is definitely possible raw. Meaty it's a lot easier. Honestly, though, b12 cancel isn't that tight. Only hellfire run cancel that's legit tight is off f4. The rest of them, any HF scorpion player will nail 10/10.
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
Yea some people claim it's possible but again, till I see someone post a video of it im not believing it. You can't cancel f4 into FBRC too fast because the fireball will just come out. He'll even b12~FBRC seems too tight.
I'd have to say that's crap. I occasionally run sets (get wrecked mostly) with STB AV_DA_MAN, one of the best hellfires around. Never seen him do it. Never seen any tourney player do it. We would have seen it by now.
 

ryublaze

Noob
Premium Supporter
ok I did some testing myself

midscreen it could be a gimmick as tweedy said to catch people trying to get back at b3xxfbc BUT

in the corner it's where the fun begins thanks to mkx engine, breathing hitboxes and paulo
spend a few minutes then post again your thoughts
Midscreen u have to do max range b3 ex spear to punish people trying to poke out of b3 fbrc. In the corner u mix up b3 aura and b3 fbrc.
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
f4~FBRC into 214 is definitely possible raw. Meaty it's a lot easier. Honestly, though, b12 cancel isn't that tight. Only hellfire run cancel that's legit tight is off f4. The rest of them, any HF scorpion player will nail 10/10.
Yeah ILuvFightGames and I were talking about guys like this who say f4 fbrc into 214 is possible without doing it meaty. Have to say I've never seen it
 

Icefyre

Shadows
Yeah ILuvFightGames and I were talking about guys like this who say f4 fbrc into 214 is possible without doing it meaty. Have to say I've never seen it
Didn't Jin post a video of it at some point? And why are you so dead set against this? Go into the lab yourself. It took me less than 10 tries to link it my first time trying it. Just because you can't do it/haven't seen it doesn't mean everyone is lying and pulling this out of their ass.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
Why would you try to do the harder link if you can just do the s3 link? Why maximize your chance to miss the link when you can get plenty of damage still from the easier link. Why are these guys so dead set on using 214?
 

Icefyre

Shadows
Why would you try to do the harder link if you can just do the s3 link? Why maximize your chance to miss the link when you can get plenty of damage still from the easier link. Why are these guys so dead set on using 214?
If flame aura is already active, 214 leads to more meterlessly. Otherwise yeah linking into s3 is the preferred option.
 
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STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Just to put to bed the idea that 214 can't be linked from F4~FBRC without it hitting meaty:


And this was pre-XL when it was a true 1f link (you can tell by the 214~tele connecting much lower than it does now)
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
Just to put to bed the idea that 214 can't be linked from F4~FBRC without it hitting meaty:


And this was pre-XL when it was a true 1f link (you can tell by the 214~tele connecting much lower than it does now)
Thanks for taking the time to post an actual video. So it is indeed possible, but probably not viable in the heat of a competitive online match. Unless you're the Daigo Umehara of MK or something.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
@Red Raptor just out of curiosity, in your personal opinion, assuming the highest (realistic) level of play and execution, do you think that Hellfire is potentially a top 5 variation?