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Strategy - Hellfire So, time we had a discussion about Hellfire

rubmytaco

CarriedByClone
Yeah but he gets opportunities in EU tournaments and doesn't do as well as Murko/Happypow/Ktop and Foxy/Madzin/St9rm/Jupe/etc before them.

You know as well as any that if you're up there in EU, you'll get your chances at Burbank and what not. If Shura's never gotten a shot, it's for a reason. He'll have more on Injustice 2.

Your tournament was great Taco, but correct me if i'm wrong.

Neither Foxy, Madzin, Jupe, Murko or Ktop were present, yet Shura failed to make top 8? I'm sure there are other great EU players who were not present.

Yeah the oppression is on him at that point.
As far as I know, Shura wasn't playing the game as seriously as he is currently and AFK was the first 'big' offline tournament he entered to my knowledge. It's very unlikely that you do great at your first offline event and everyone can have their bad days. As far as I know, Shura does very well against pretty much every EU player at the moment and I do consider him a top 10 player in EU. Yes NA tournaments are more stacked overall, but to blatantly say he'd go 1-2 at best at any given tournament is a bit disrespectful imo.
 

Tweedy

Noob
As far as I know, Shura wasn't playing the game as seriously as he has previously and AFK was the first 'big' offline tournament he entered to my knowledge. It's very unlikely that you do great at your first offline event and everyone can have their bad days. As far as I know, Shura does very well against pretty much every EU player at the moment and I do consider him a top 10 player in EU. Yes NA tournaments are more stacked overall, but to blatantly say he'd go 1-2 at best at any given tournament is a bit disrespectful imo.
When I watched him play Murko on stream Murko beat him with variationless Scorpion and he whined. I've also played him some. Maybe I should watch more but I was going off of those things and AFK.

You guys will have opportunities on Inj 2 with ESL and stuff i'm sure. The rise of Shura will commence.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
You pretty much miss my point.

Internationals have gotten a lot of chances and they have backed it up.

The ones who haven't proved themselves to be top in EU alone and just ride coattails, are not entitled to anything. That's all i'm saying.
I agree and the top EU players would agree as well.
 

ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
As far as I know, Shura wasn't playing the game as seriously as he is currently and AFK was the first 'big' offline tournament he entered to my knowledge. It's very unlikely that you do great at your first offline event and everyone can have their bad days. As far as I know, Shura does very well against pretty much every EU player at the moment and I do consider him a top 10 player in EU. Yes NA tournaments are more stacked overall, but to blatantly say he'd go 1-2 at best at any given tournament is a bit disrespectful imo.
You don't know how you'll do until you attend. After that you get a clear picture of where you stand and who's ahead. We could say he would make top 8, we could say he'd go 1-2, but ultimately no one would know unless he travelled (and trust me I know how hard travelling is).

I don't want this misunderstood as a shot at Shura, I really like Shura, but ya gotta show up and see how you'd do for yourself.

Also Hellfire is nuts but I don't know enough about the game as a whole to comment on a placing.
 

rubmytaco

CarriedByClone
When I watched him play Murko on stream Murko beat him with variationless Scorpion and he whined. I've also played him some. Maybe I should watch more but I was going off of those things and AFK.

You guys will have opportunities on Inj 2 with ESL and stuff i'm sure. The rise of Shura will commence.
I know you don't mean to shit on anyone. I just think making tough statements like that isn't cool. In addition to my last post, here's who I think is currently top 10 in Europe (not in order and based purely on who I've played or seen play)

Foxy, Madzin, Crathen, HappyPow, Murko, RZA, IrishMantis, Shura, Jupe (when he isn't sandbagging in the weekly PC cups) and Ktop.
 
Why is everyone arguing about whos the best hellfire? Its so irrelevant. Everyone has their own tech and plays different.
Far from an exact quote but i'll toss that up as TYM being TYM.
I wasnt exactly quoting you, im just proving my point. You complain about it so much but you do it too. Hypocrite at the pure noble gas form
 

ryublaze

Noob
Premium Supporter
-we- (at least me) never said that murko is the best because of his results (and in the op i clearly stated that i wanted a discussion on the character non the usual e-penis, offline/online option select)

but he's the one individual that:

considering his playstyle,
considering his results in the competitions we have, considering the countless sets he's playing against everyone in EU (and believe me when I say that murko ranges from the casual scrub koth rooms in public matches to ranked and private against top sets)

is giving the face to the character: he's explosive, converts off basically anything, scares players to press buttons because he's relentless and consistent in combos and on top of that he adjusts quickly to the opponent
and if you go 10-9 against him today, chances are you're set to get 10-0'd the next time
Well everywhere I go whether it's TYM, Twitter, Youtube or Stream chats people are always talking about this. I brought it up so they can stfu and also because this thread (and site) has gotten super boring.

Your post makes no sense since you said that it's not because of his results but then you go on and talk about results lol. Saying Murko is the face of a character is the same as saying he's the best and that is simply not true. Idc about online casuals and scores, I could talk about how I beat a bunch of top players in casuals but I don't because at the end of the day it's RESULTS that matter.

this is the exact reason I don't like this stupid option select and didn't want in this thread
I know for a fact that this community, while mostly driven by offline placements, is biased towards new faces that are popping because they finally gave us a decent netcode and good players kept getting better once the money flow stopped
I don't see how it's an option select when offline placements have been what this community's been going by for years. And I'm not new, I've been placing with a character called Takeda for the past year and a half. ;)

but you're making a huge mistake thinking that the EU = foxy or madzin, you all should know by now that a lot of us are top16 material, same old, same old we can't get over there and viceversa so easily as we can play online
That's not what I said at all lol.

and btw a:


yet you quote an online tactic, telecancel is reactable due to its animation even more than a f4 off a +26
and if we want to think strategically even if you try to hard read the telecancel it's still a 5% damage trade and a blockstring, possibly a 5050 with all the consideration you just did, against a full launch
It's not an online tactic. You cannot react to EX Tele mixed with Tele Cancel. If you try to interrupt too soon, you'll get launched by the 2nd hit of EX Tele. If you react too late, Tele Cancel->EX Tele launches you for a full combo.
 

rubmytaco

CarriedByClone
You don't know how you'll do until you attend. After that you get a clear picture of where you stand and who's ahead. We could say he would make top 8, we could say he'd go 1-2, but ultimately no one would know unless he travelled (and trust me I know how hard travelling is).

I don't want this misunderstood as a shot at Shura, I really like Shura, but ya gotta show up and see how you'd do for yourself.

Also Hellfire is nuts but I don't know enough about the game as a whole to comment on a placing.
I'm not saying anything about his placement :) That's my exact point. You really can't say anything unless he would enter a couple of tournaments. Both sides are wrong to predict anything, really.
 

Yer_Da

I don't sell Avon.
The ones who haven't proved themselves to be top in EU alone and just ride coattails, are not entitled to anything. That's all i'm saying.
I think that's a very arrogant and misinformed statement. I know for a fact that Shura is one of the busiest guys behind the scenes in the EU FGC and works nonstop alongside the likes of ESL and other players to try and establish a stronger scene in the EU and bring together a community. At no point am I willing to dismiss anything he says as nonsense because he hasn't placed.

@Youphemism is another one, that guy does a ton for the community, both offline and online, I'm not discarding that because his tournament resume isn't up to a certain standard.

Infact, didn't a ton of people doubt you before TCW? I'd hope you'd be a stronger advocate for people getting themselves out there and doing their best, top 8's or not.
 

SylverRye

Official Loop Kang Main
Lol i feel red raptors post. Every time i stream or play i see people asking who's the best liu.. murk or xarakamaka or me or zyphox and it's really annoying and causes unnecessary drama. The need to be the best with a character just seems like needing to give yourself false validation. Being the best doesn't mean anything if you aren't winning.. sorry to derail but nowadays you see "whos the best this" as much as you see tier talk...
 

TheGoldenJew

PSN: The_Golden_Jew1
Madzin made top 8 (the only Sub Zero to do so in NA), Jupe made top 8 by taking out PL and Toxin.
Madzin is an honorary American. Jupe is solid. I don't know anyone named Murko though. All this nonsense about someone being better than another without results is just an idiotic argument. Raptor beats the best with the character.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
Madzin is an honorary American. Jupe is solid. I don't know anyone named Murko though. All this nonsense about someone being better than another without results is just an idiotic argument. Raptor beats the best with the character.
Ignorant or naive. Not sure which but I do know that you're a tosspot.
 

Yer_Da

I don't sell Avon.
Madzin is an honorary American. Jupe is solid. I don't know anyone named Murko though. All this nonsense about someone being better than another without results is just an idiotic argument. Raptor beats the best with the character.
You asksd for examples, I gave you them. I'm not interested in who the best Hellfire is but if you want to know who Murko is, please get yourself the EU version of the game, I'm sure he'll be happy to play.

Infact, EC Lion, to his credit, at least wanted to see what the big deal was and challenged him to a FT10 on K&M's stream.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
You asksd for examples, I gave you them. I'm not interested in who the best Hellfire is but if you want to know who Murko is, please get yourself the EU version of the game, I'm sure he'll be happy to play.

Infact, EC Lion, to his credit, at least wanted to see what the big deal was and challenged him to a FT10 on K&M's stream.
I watched the youtube upload of that ft10 match the other day. Pretty entertaining.
 

rubmytaco

CarriedByClone
This whole NA vs EU thing needs to stop. I'll be working on something to settle this, not in the "who is better" way, but in a way that brings both communities together. It's quite apparent that there's a big lack of respect on both sides in cases.

We're all ONE community, not two or more.