Match-up Discussion Ra Helios (Catwoman) Match up chart

[Ra Helios]

Preach.

I'm cool with the BG/WW numbers, though I think Wonder Woman could be 6-4 her favour since she beats you on wakeup along with slightly higher meterless damage.

True but there a way to get around the wake up so it won't have that effect. But its not a big problem to make it a 6-4 mu in my opinion

 

[Yoaks]

I strongly disagree. Mu are determine how well you play the mu and how you use your tools properly. Finding tech to beat the character and finding tech to make the character better which I do. Its not my fault that other people struggle in the mu badly and I have a success with the mu. Obviously I use the tools properly. Have better tech specific on the character. Have tech that makes my character better. Have better fundamentals.

For example laos boy. He struggle in the zod mu against pig. Is that a bad mu for catwomen because he struggle in the mu.


When I play against pig the score was 8-10. He doesn't have the tech fundamentals and etc to play in the mu like I do.

Mu are determine on how well you play it like I said before

If you watch the stream you would know how well I played in th mu

Mu numbers are determined by "Character vs Character." Not "Player vs Player." That's what Mayo and a bunch of others have been trying to tell you.

 

[Ra Helios]

This just means you're a better player than Lao's boy (no offense to him, of course). You're really unique: you're the first player I run across who wants the character credited for his wins, rather than his skills as a player, lol.

I know that but how under the mayo saying it that is not the case. Mu are determine how each people play. Like I explained. i use laos boy to prove my point because we both use catwoman.

 

[Ra Helios]

Mu numbers are determined by "Character vs Character." Not "Player vs Player." That's what Mayo and a bunch of others have been trying to tell you.

Yeah. I know. I explained it. Better fundamental tech and etc

 

[OG Mannimal]

I actually think what Ra is saying makes sense. Think of it this way, if someone doesn't use Ravens trait, is their MU chart going to be the same as someone who does use it? That's essentially what he's saying, and I think it makes sense

 

[Captain Oxygen]

Match ups arent determined by "Beating really good players"
Matchups are determined by comparing tools and how they correlate to the other characters tools. Actual discussion and facts.

I can't say "I beat 16bit a lot so Lobo beats Catwoman"

I CAN argue that Lobo footsies and antiairs Catwoman well, and that Catwomans Wakeup/Damage aren't as good as Lobo's. It is possible for Catwoman to jump in on Lobo after a knockdown to avoid the 2nd hit of hook charge, but that can be avoided with the AA grab.

Lobo can walk back and out space Catwoman well with his Standing 3, J1, Low Hook, and Trait Pumpshots. And go ham once knocked down, Without trait she has no wakeup options as Catdash is very stuffable, and even with trait you can armor through it.

You can argue matchups with information and tools, don't say "I beat decay a lot online so CW wins"

 

[Vocket]

This just means you're a better player than Lao's boy (no offense to him, of course). You're really unique: you're the first player I run across who wants the character credited for his wins, rather than his skills as a player, lol.

Ra Helios biggest downplayer of Ra Helios.

 

[Death]

Can we please stop pretending like online and offline is really that huge of a difference.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

I strongly disagree. Mu are determine how well you play the mu and how you use your tools properly.

This is why you get blown up dude. You fundamentally do not understand what a matchup is. It's fine, we all started somewhere and had to learn. But you need to actually get right on your terminology. MUs are not determined by how well you play them. That makes no sense. It doesn't matter if you strongly disagree. You're disagreeing with the freaking definition of what the term is.

This is why on streams they'll say "PR Rog making this match look 5 - 5." They say that because the actual matchup is not 5 5, but he handles his disadvantages so well and outplays the other guy, that it gives the illusion of an even match. Fundamentals have nothing to do with it. Catwoman doesn't have fundamentals or reactions. She is controlled by people that do (or don't). The Matchup is the character's tools against the others, that is it. Otherwise, MUs would be absolutely random.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

If MU numbers are determined by playing online sets does that mean WoWo beats Catwoman 15-0*?

 

[Ra Helios]

Match ups arent determined by "Beating really good players"
Matchups are determined by comparing tools and how they correlate to the other characters tools. Actual discussion and facts.

I can't say "I beat 16bit a lot so Lobo beats Catwoman"

I CAN argue that Lobo footsies and antiairs Catwoman well, and that Catwomans Wakeup/Damage aren't as good as Lobo's. It is possible for Catwoman to jump in on Lobo after a knockdown to avoid the 2nd hit of hook charge, but that can be avoided with the AA grab.

Lobo can walk back and out space Catwoman well with his Standing 3, J1, Low Hook, and Trait Pumpshots. And go ham once knocked down, Without trait she has no wakeup options as Catdash is very stuffable, and even with trait you can armor through it.

You can argue matchups with information and tools, don't say "I beat decay a lot online so CW wins"

i agree at the same time I dont see Lobo beating the character. I hope relaxstate can set something up so we can play.

i play emperor murk and I see the nightwing mu even. Even though I blew him up bad. Its still even and today we go back and forth. But Lobo I dont see it.

 

[Ra Helios]

This is why you get blown up dude. You fundamentally do not understand what a matchup is. It's fine, we all started somewhere and had to learn. But you need to actually get right on your terminology. MUs are not determined by how well you play them. That makes no sense. It doesn't matter if you strongly disagree. You're disagreeing with the freaking definition of what the term is.

This is why on streams they'll say "PR Rog making this match look 5 - 5." They say that because the actual matchup is not 5 5, but he handles his disadvantages so well and outplays the other guy, that it gives the illusion of an even match. Fundamentals have nothing to do with it. Catwoman doesn't have fundamentals or reactions. She is controlled by people that do (or don't). The Matchup is the character's tools against the others, that is it. Otherwise, MUs would be absolutely random.

Lol idk. You probably dont see where im coming from

 

[LRK128]

What was the BANE number again?

 

[Qwark28]

I find it amazing that Ra has brainwashed quite a few fools.

 

[Shaazzyam]

No, STB Shujinkydink would suggest you actually talk to a player before you dismiss it on "lulz online players"

I'm all ears but what I'm seeing is " I beat this guy online." I've seen Ra's eloquently put points and here I am, still not sold.

Show me what I'm missing here.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Can we please stop pretending like online and offline is really that huge of a difference.

WHAT???? lol, dude the same people who beat me like 30 to 5 online, I can beat offline in sets no problem..... smh

 

[LRK128]

WHAT???? lol, dude the same people who beat me like 30 to 5 online, I can beat offline in sets no problem..... smh

probably because you were physically interfering with them offline

 

[Ra Helios]

I'm all ears but what I'm seeing is " I beat this guy online." I've seen Ra's eloquently put points and here I am, still not sold.

Show me what I'm missing here.

My mu charts goes by playing people in long sets to determine my mu. Beating them in real sets comes later when the mu is already establish,

 

[LRK128]

My mu charts goes by playing people in long sets to determine my mu. Beating them in real sets comes later when the mu is already establish,

We need to define our terms here. Fill in the blanks:
Reality:
Beating:
Establish:

 

[astronout]

Can we please stop pretending like online and offline is really that huge of a difference.

the meta of online play is completely different than an offline competitive setting. there's really no debate there. you can get away with a lot more online than offline. my favorite examples are reptile's dash and catwoman's catdash. both are easily punished offline, but online, that figure changes to about 70%.

 

[Ra Helios]

the meta of online play is completely different than an offline competitive setting. there's really no debate there. you can get away with a lot more online than offline. my favorite examples are reptile's dash and catwoman's catdash. both are easily punished offline, but online, that figure changes to about 70%.

? I do not understand. I can easily punish catdash online. No!!! Bad example. Good example is offline you can punish black adam dive kick which is -22. Online with Catwoman character specific. Catwoman cannot punish black adam dive kick with a f1. Which give black adam a advantage to catwoman online. Offline will be punishable

 

[HellblazerHawkman]

im not even gonna argue... but how in the hell does catwoman beat hawkgirl.



im done.....

I'd call it a 5-5 myself. I'd say 6-4 if it wasn't for CW's hurtbox being so weird

 

[Ra Helios]

I'd call it a 5-5 myself. I'd say 6-4 if it wasn't for CW's hurtbox being so weird

She can also b3 her win evade and her mace charge and easily get her out of the air.

 

[Captain Oxygen]

Having at least 1 frame of delay/difference means I can't do 1f punishes or difficult links.

People have trouble punishing Hook Charge online because its Harder to punish Hook Charge online. Hook Charge is a distance dependent on its - frames and if people miss out on even a frame I miss out on losing 50%.

It also means tight combos are harder, Getting the B3 after MB Czar Toss/Martian Grab is a 2f link, in a pressured situation chances are I'm even LESS likely to land it or even GO for it.

 

[LRK128]

Having at least 1 frame of delay/difference means I can't do 1f punishes or difficult links.

People have trouble punishing Hook Charge online because its Harder to punish Hook Charge online. Hook Charge is a distance dependent on its - frames and if people miss out on even a frame I miss out on losing 50%.

It also means tight combos are harder, Getting the B3 after MB Czar Toss/Martian Grab is a 2f link, in a pressured situation chances are I'm even LESS likely to land it or even GO for it.

Go for it. I believe in you.