What's new

Match-up Discussion POST PATCH: Discussion Smokes new tier positioning

but considering how easy spacing is with him its not hard to punish a jump with a B23 starter the moment they land.
Could you possibly explain more? Not really that great at fighting games, and I'm not sure how exactly this is something Smoke would excel at. Do you mean smoking away on prediction to a jip then punishing with b23 because of its awesome range? Backdashes seem way too small to be feasable, but maybe i'm wrong? :s
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
If he had a 7 frame uppercut (Sonya speed) would he be able to link an AA uppercut into a smoke bomb? Because that'd be retarded lol.

It noticed he doesnt have any good AA moves, but considering how easy spacing is with him its not hard to punish a jump with a B23 starter the moment they land.
Spacing is easy with Smoke; awesome standard dashes + smoke drifts makes for moving into position really easy. punishing a jump ini with b23, while effective, is really situational, can be blocked so it isn't really a punish, and is unsafe on block. I actually thought I was the only person that did this lol.

I definitely did it in my one on stream match at SBV but bifuteki cleaned up their archive and it got deleted :(

basically, when someone jumps at you and you're near the tip of their jump range you back dash and then throw b23 right as they hit the ground. It normally catches them off guard because it's so quick. It might work in other set ups, but I have to test it before I can say definitively.
 

kandehbar

The Gryphon
you know I sweep JIP when they land since he goes so low when he sweeps and mix it up with B2 (only B2 not the string)
But smoke could either use a better D2 or a low Ex smoke bomb. But he doesnt really "need" anything per say
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Isn't b3 one of Smoke's better AAs? I know it's 14f, but still.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
you know I sweep JIP
Sweep will beat jump in punches 99.99999% of the time. It's cross ups that give Smoke the worst trouble.

EX Smoke bomb is already really useful, it doesn't need to be any better. Regular smoke bomb can't chip because it's indirect properties are so good; it's start up and cool down are probably the best in the game for a combo starting "projectile" and it isn't even techinically a projectile so it beats reflect moves. Also, you can punish a whiffed anything from anywhere on screen with it.

my wish list of reasonable Smoke changes (let's be clear, I'm not asking for these just playing "fantasy MK character" instead of "fantasy football)

-take away the reset
-faster uppercut
-faster canceling out of EX shake

that's about it.

As much as I would like to see it, Smoke is never going to get an armored move because the reasoning behind armor distribution was that characters could get "easily zoned out" and couldn't return fire (ie. non teleporters like Kabal, NW, JC, Subz, Reptile, Jax, etc. There are characters that under this criteria shouldn't have armor: Sonya and Rain. But, that's a whole 'nother discussion). Smoke can't be zoned out and therefore will never get armor, and we won't ever see the REAL benefit of having it.

Clearly, the best use of armor is to break pressure with a guaranteed retaliation. I'm going to put it out there and say that the single most important thing in this game is MOMENTUM. It's true for every character but espcially for Smoke. This patch is bad news for Smoke; hard to get going, can be stopped by spending one meter.

Yes, EX Shake is good to break pressure USUALLY, and there would be some level of redundancy if he had, say, armored EX t punch. But, armor is 100% guaranteed pressure reversal and there is plenty of shit that beats EX shake.

OFF TOPIC: most hype way to end a match with Smoke?

X-Ray > dash cancel > throw

EDIT: I know X-ray has armor. That doesn't count lol.
 

SZSR

Noob
Isn't b3 one of Smoke's better AAs? I know it's 14f, but still.
Often times, Smoke will negative edge in his Smoke towards or Smoke away. It's an excellent anti-air (I could actually hit Kitanas out of the air with it when they did square wave) but negative edge kills it for him.
 

kandehbar

The Gryphon
Sweep will beat jump in punches 99.99999% of the time. It's cross ups that give Smoke the worst trouble.


OFF TOPIC: most hype way to end a match with Smoke?

X-Ray > dash cancel > throw

EDIT: I know X-ray has armor. That doesn't count lol.
'

lol i got 7th at river city runbacks that way it was the first time i tried it.

But i know he doesnt "need" Ex smoke bomb hitting low, but tbh he needs nothing at all. All im saying is since everyone else
some form of low in either a special or a combo except smoke, Ex smoke bomb would be the perfect solution cause to be honest if standing 3 was a low 3-D1-2 would be the most over powered string in the game since its so safe.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
2's the best AA in the game by like a bajillionX
:confused:

not from my experience lol.

Quick, everyone re-test standing 2 as AA; I just rented gears 3 and want to beat campaign before I have to take it back.





What? Don't give me that look.
 
So guys, forgive me if this is old news, but I was messing around with the ex smokebomb reset, and I accidentally hit standing 3~exSB instead of f4~exSB and it WORKED. After I finished raising my eyebrow and pursing my lips at the television screen, I tried it again. I've now been able to replicate it about 10 times out of around 25 attempts. The other times, the exSB just does the normal unscaled 10% otg thing. Can anyone confirm if this is legit or just a training mode thing? Here's the specific combo I was doing:

b23~smoke cloud, dash, 32, dash, 3d12, dash 3~ex smoke bomb (reset into whatever juggle you like)

Thanks!

Edit: Expanding on the above (if it does indeed work), I've found ways to get RELIABLE exSB resets in both the corner and mid-screen using a combination of standing 3 and 214. If anyone can confirm if this is legit (or if it's already known and I'm barking up a well-marked tree), I'd appreciate it.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
So guys, forgive me if this is old news, but I was messing around with the ex smokebomb reset, and I accidentally hit standing 3~exSB instead of f4~exSB and it WORKED. After I finished raising my eyebrow and pursing my lips at the television screen, I tried it again. I've now been able to replicate it about 10 times out of around 25 attempts. The other times, the exSB just does the normal unscaled 10% otg thing. Can anyone confirm if this is legit or just a training mode thing? Here's the specific combo I was doing:

b23~smoke cloud, dash, 32, dash, 3d12, dash 3~ex smoke bomb (reset into whatever juggle you like)

Thanks!

Edit: Expanding on the above (if it does indeed work), I've found ways to get RELIABLE exSB resets in both the corner and mid-screen using a combination of standing 3 and 214. If anyone can confirm if this is legit (or if it's already known and I'm barking up a well-marked tree), I'd appreciate it.
I'm about 90% sure it's not real (because there are many ways to get a set up that gets EX bomb to reset but they're all blockable except f+4). But, you need to test it with human controlled blocking. So grab a friend or a second controller and have at it.
 

kandehbar

The Gryphon
well one thing i want to test is how safe is JIK to teleport while still in the air. Ive never been blocked when i do a teleport in the air'
does he still ball up if its blocked in the air. if not test if that is safe and how safe JIK'ing/JOK'ing is now
 

hardwire

Noob
well one thing i want to test is how safe is JIK to teleport while still in the air. Ive never been blocked when i do a teleport in the air'
does he still ball up if its blocked in the air. if not test if that is safe and how safe JIK'ing/JOK'ing is now
yes he balls up even if blocked in the air
 
So, what you're saying is pull a pseudo-mileena? Off of a high blocked jump kick, cancel into a telepunch and try to whiff it above their head? I have no idea if that's even possible.
 

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
It should be possible. That's pretty wacky though. Could be good to throw someone off balance.

Then again, block stun on jump kick might be enough that they are still unable to move as the JK > TP cancel happens. If so, there is no chance of them whiffing a retaliation. If this is the case, they will see the whiffed air TP every time and even someone with turtle reactions could beat you out.
 

SZSR

Noob
It should be possible. That's pretty wacky though. Could be good to throw someone off balance.

Then again, block stun on jump kick might be enough that they are still unable to move as the JK > TP cancel happens. If so, there is no chance of them whiffing a retaliation. If this is the case, they will see the whiffed air TP every time and even someone with turtle reactions could beat you out.
Is this on hit or block? Because the TP has to be a good distance above their head to whiff properly and that's pretty hard to do in a hectic match...
 

SZSR

Noob
Kandehbar, we already know he's a hard matchup... we just don't have many good Jaxes to practice the match-up with, so we're pretty limited on Jax knowledge (KT I think does have some knowledge on the matchup though)
:confused:

not from my experience lol.

Quick, everyone re-test standing 2 as AA; I just rented gears 3 and want to beat campaign before I have to take it back.


What? Don't give me that look.
You can actually AA with it if you can predict a Jump-in and follow up with a dash in 2, d4 smoke bomb. I've been able to do it following up a 3d12, could work as an actual AA.