Match-up Discussion POST PATCH: Discussion Smokes new tier positioning

[Helter Skelter]

If 3 was a low starter he would be a low risk/high reward character, and totally bypass the risks Mileena and Scorpion make when attempting a mixup. They should make his Enhanced Smoke Bomb a low with same OTG properties it has now. That would be the best solution.

 

[G4S KT]

While I don't think Smoke needs any buffs, I also don't think anyone who plays a different character would have issue with giving him an 8 frame uppercut.

It's a victimless crime.

 

[FrothyOmen]

While I don't think Smoke needs any buffs, I also don't think anyone who plays a different character would have issue with giving him an 8 frame uppercut.

It's a victimless crime.

Especially with the removal of the original OTG. I wouldn't say it crippled his antiair, but dammit it made him less scary when controlling airspace. A quicker uppercut could help fix that. 8 frames seems a tad quick to me... I'd take 10-11 though.

EDIT: I hate theorycrafting buffs like this but I just had a pretty nifty idea if i do say so myself... you know how if you use invisibility (ex or not) theres a few frame window where you can sidestep projectiles and go invisible for free? Why not just widen that window and give smoke the option to either sidestep for a free invis, or shake for a parry? Many who don't play smoke seem to think his potential lies in invis... let's see if they're right. Oh, and for my sanity's sake, when i'm invisible please don't display the huge cloud of smoke when i do his front/back teleports...

tldr give smoke mixups in his defense/utilities instead of his offense. It'll be like hangin' some fuzzy dice on the pain train... real nice.

 

[kabelfritz]

While I don't think Smoke needs any buffs, I also don't think anyone who plays a different character would have issue with giving him an 8 frame uppercut.

It's a victimless crime.

id also be ok with 10 frames. people who think he needs a low need to learn to mix up with throws.

 

[Helter Skelter]

id also be ok with 10 frames. people who think he needs a low need to learn to mix up with throws.

Word.

 

[Metzos]

Smoke has a very good AA and thats the 2 i think which can be linked into a smoke bomb.So no he doesnt need more than that omg...

 

[FrothyOmen]

his standing 2 barely reaches 6 inches in front of smoke. It's quite literally one of the shortest ranged normals in the game. I almost think that d1 reaches farther <_< If anyone AA'd you consistently with standing 2, they're either a jedi or you were playing too predictably, its nearly impossible to do on reaction, at least from my personal experience...

 

[G4S KT]

his standing 2 barely reaches 6 inches in front of smoke. It's quite literally one of the shortest ranged normals in the game. I almost think that d1 reaches farther <_< If anyone AA'd you consistently with standing 2, they're either a jedi or you were playing too predictably, its nearly impossible to do on reaction, at least from my personal experience...

Yes, standing 2 doesn't have the range or hit box needed to be a consistent AA. it really only works if they're not timing the jumping punch correctly.

Smoke's best jump in AA is sweep (100% serious).

Smoke's best cross up AA d1 but it's fucking risky. EX shake is the only "real" cross up defense.

The patch is going to make things much harder for Smoke after half the cast got armored moves. Smoke is a freight train, yea? Hard to get going and hard to stop? Now a ton of characters can spend one meter to shut down the Smoke train whenever they want.

 

[FrothyOmen]

I want an armored smoke bomb. Spend meter to trump their meter. Because fuck you, I'm Smoke.

 

[AK BeerGuyEd]

I love all the talk about Smoke getting a buff, or what he needs to get into the "Hat Tier" but damn the patch just came out and we are talking about buffs. We talked about how Smoke was balanced before the patch came out, and now we are talking about buffs. Just weird I guess.

What I would like is Smoke's standing 2 to be a real hit with a decent frame rate. I have been messing around with Rain and it is just so nice to hit 2 to AA and go into a combo. Not a big deal as I am getting really solid on AA with telepunch.

 

[kandehbar]

ok these are crazy ideas

***Faster D2
***Special/guard cancel ex smoke away/towards
***Smoke Bomb safe on block at any range

**A low start string
**Smoke away at the edge of the screen makes you appear at the other side
**Standing 1 becoming a 7 frame attack
**Ex invis gives damage boost

*Smoke bomb doing 1% chip
*Smokes B2-3 and B1-4 safe on block
*Guard Cancel teleport

Stars indicate what could be viable and resonable the lower the star the lower the priority

"Takes out flame sheild"

I made this so people could choose like 2 or three from the list. HOW would smoke bomb doing chip be broken you can dodge it by walking forward. Personally i want a faster D2 or a seven frame combo starter

 

[kandehbar]

Ok three ideas that would solve all of smokes problems
Ex Smoke bomb hits low
Ex smoke bomb gains armor
9 frame uppercut or standing 2 is 8 frames

 

[kabelfritz]

Ok three ideas that would solve all of smokes problems
Ex Smoke bomb hits low
Ex smoke bomb gains armor
9 frame uppercut or standing 2 is 8 frames

still, no need, except a slightly quicker uppercut which is no need too but would be nice.

 

[kandehbar]

Im pretty sure that smoke bomb ex smoke bomb hitting low would solve most of his mix up problems cause to be honest you can only mix up with the B2 its good but since all they have to worry about it low pokes and sweeps it really limits his options
Yeh sure you can attempt a grab but now that his jip grab option is gone grabing is way to much of a risk

but i guess im might be imparcial cause all my friend play raiden kabal reptile and kitana

 

[kabelfritz]

Im pretty sure that smoke bomb ex smoke bomb hitting low would solve most of his mix up problems cause to be honest you can only mix up with the B2 its good but since all they have to worry about it low pokes and sweeps it really limits his options
Yeh sure you can attempt a grab but now that his jip grab option is gone grabing is way to much of a risk

but i guess im might be imparcial cause all my friend play raiden kabal reptile and kitana

you should grab after 3 or b2 or 3d2 or sth, thats what i mean with mixup.

 

[MKF30]

If 3 was a low starter he would be a low risk/high reward character, and totally bypass the risks Mileena and Scorpion make when attempting a mixup. They should make his Enhanced Smoke Bomb a low with same OTG properties it has now. That would be the best solution.

If they made it safe on block like it is now, I can't see how that's a risk lol.

 

[PunisherAlive]

Ok three ideas that would solve all of smokes problems
Ex Smoke bomb hits low
Ex smoke bomb gains armor
9 frame uppercut or standing 2 is 8 frames

Ever seen a EX Projectile hitting low wich leads into 30%+ damage into pressure if you end the combo with JK > Airthrow (Whiff teleport)?

Madness!

all Smoke really needs is just a faster uppercut, and maybe his 3 and B2 a little faster.

 

[Big Pampering]

?

his ex smoke away/toward is invinsible

trust me i had it beaten into me when i suggested his normal away toward gets invincibility as a buff

go ahead argue the fact that smoke away toward has no invulnerability

I thought somebody said he had armor which he ofcourse doesnt have on the ex smoke away/towards. But seriousely I commented on this without testing it but just had have experiences where I got hit out of the startup of my ex version just saying.

BTW since you seem to have some smoke knowledge, is wakeup smoke towards or smoke away a wakeup option now because of the 4 extra invulnerability frames on wakeup( im talking about normal not ex version)?

 

[Big Pampering]

stagger

13 gives decent stagger on hit but isn't safe on block. It gives enough stagger to dash up and attempt a throw and they have to jump out to escape. Im 75% sure that you can jail into standing 2 as well.

doesnt 2,1 stagger?

 

[Big Pampering]

Yes, standing 2 doesn't have the range or hit box needed to be a consistent AA. it really only works if they're not timing the jumping punch correctly.

Smoke's best jump in AA is sweep (100% serious).

Smoke's best cross up AA d1 but it's fucking risky. EX shake is the only "real" cross up defense.

The patch is going to make things much harder for Smoke after half the cast got armored moves. Smoke is a freight train, yea? Hard to get going and hard to stop? Now a ton of characters can spend one meter to shut down the Smoke train whenever they want.

using teleport as aa on reaction against cross up punch works perfectly fine for me, am i the only one doing this? and if so is there a reason why? I dont see any reason for the teleport to be blocked since its on reaction and you cant block in the air

 

[kabelfritz]

using teleport as aa on reaction against cross up punch works perfectly fine for me, am i the only one doing this? and if so is there a reason why? I dont see any reason for the teleport to be blocked since its on reaction and you cant block in the air

in doing that too. i tried it with sweep at the beginning but id absolutely didnt work. i thought it would duck and hit but it doesnt.

 

[kandehbar]

I know 3-D1-2 is safe but does it give advantage

 

[G4S KT]

I know 3-D1-2 is safe but does it give advantage

Yea, enough to jail into d1. That's why it's so good.

 

[Doctor_V]

For Smoke Get rid of his resets. Make his EX smoke away/Towards have super armor and make his uppercut like 7 or 8 frames.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

If he had a 7 frame uppercut (Sonya speed) would he be able to link an AA uppercut into a smoke bomb? Because that'd be retarded lol.

It noticed he doesnt have any good AA moves, but considering how easy spacing is with him its not hard to punish a jump with a B23 starter the moment they land.