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Match-up Discussion POST PATCH: Discussion Smokes new tier positioning

kandehbar

kandehbar

The Gryphon
He didnt recieve buffs because he didnt need it the people that recieved buffs are irrelevent because smoke moves stil make it 5/5 his worst match ups have been equallized because with buffs to the other characters came with core nerfs. I'm not to sure hes top ten but if he is hes at the number 10 spot
 
kandehbar

kandehbar

The Gryphon
Well balanced doesnt always mean mid tier cause smoke is upper mid IMO but there is probably some technology with smoke noones discoverd yet what i want to find out is if there is a way we can wiff Smoke-port on command without having to knock down the opponent or them moving
 
hardwire

hardwire

Noob
PerfectMindGame said:
No he doesnt, he receives hits if people time it really well( or get lucky). its not invinsible and does not have armor. I think smoke away/towards is his best tool, because its basically the one thing that is unique about him, its so nice to troll JC players by smoking behind them while they are still doing their strings and then throw a smoke bomb. I like how he is a hit and run character that will annoy the hell out of people
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his ex smoke away/toward is invinsible

trust me i had it beaten into me when i suggested his normal away toward gets invincibility as a buff

go ahead argue the fact that smoke away toward has no invulnerability
 
G4S KT

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
kandehbar said:
Question does smoke have a move that staggers???
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13 gives decent stagger on hit but isn't safe on block. It gives enough stagger to dash up and attempt a throw and they have to jump out to escape. Im 75% sure that you can jail into standing 2 as well.
 
kandehbar

kandehbar

The Gryphon
Well Smokes main weaknesses are characters that can out manuever smoke bomb checks i.e kabal raiden reptile
Kabal and reptile are like smokes worst match ups, even though the match up isnt bad kabal is just a better mid range character then smoke is and smoke is best at mid range.
The only thing that you can do is be a better blocker and hope you block a dash.

Jax is now a HUGE threat to smoke. Jax is now a pure guessing game now that he has like 3 over heads that can lead into retarded damage. Jax is top tier IMO
 
H

Helter Skelter

CHIPPINGxTRAPPINGxZONING
If you guys feel Smoke is meh because of his normals. How bad does that make Mileena? Mileena's normals are way slower than Smoke's and I still use nearly all of her strings for something.

Oh, and Mileena is not meh.

kandehbar said:
Jax is now a HUGE threat to smoke. Jax is now a pure guessing game now that he has like 3 over heads that can lead into retarded damage. Jax is top tier IMO
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How? Jax still has sub par damage midscreen even with meter. He does all his damage in the corner. A place that Smoke and Kitana players never ever have to be if they have meter. Jax isn't top tier the players that use him in tournaments usually are. If Jax is on top you and you are guessing, fair play to the Jax player because they are probably working quite hard to mindfuck you.
 
H

Helter Skelter

CHIPPINGxTRAPPINGxZONING
Go to training mode and just compare their normals. Basically, I used to think Mileena normals would hold her back but had other things to work with. Cyber Sub's normals are slow and I still think he has a lot to offer.

I just wish that NRS could have found a better way of nerfing Smoke's throw combo with removing it. It made him dynamic.
 
kandehbar

kandehbar

The Gryphon
Helter Skelter said:
If you guys feel Smoke is meh because of his normals. How bad does that make Mileena? Mileena's normals are way slower than Smoke's and I still use nearly all of her strings for something.

Oh, and Mileena is not meh.

How? Jax still has sub par damage midscreen even with meter. He does all his damage in the corner. A place that Smoke and Kitana players never ever have to be if they have meter. Jax isn't top tier the players that use him in tournaments usually are. If Jax is on top you and you are guessing, fair play to the Jax player because they are probably working quite hard to mindfuck you.
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Jax gained another overhead, his damage is FAR from subpar at mid screen since jax doesnt need to combo you to much to do sufficient damage. Dash punch is very baneful to smokes game because people with quick jolting moves to counter smoke bomb really criples smoke game. Jax can do a great job at pinning you to the corner because he has comand grabs that can put you back in there. Also with him getting a new over head it take very little time to get mind fucked by the ground pound cancels.
 
SZSR

SZSR

Noob
Helter Skelter said:
If you guys feel Smoke is meh because of his normals. How bad does that make Mileena? Mileena's normals are way slower than Smoke's and I still use nearly all of her strings for something.

Oh, and Mileena is not meh.
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Exhibit ABC ad infinitim: Mileena has way more reliable lows than Smoke has. And he only has really one good overhead. Some of Smoke's strings have really long recovery (112) or just plain are outclassed by other strings (like b1, 4). Really, his best strings are 3d12, b2 3, 214, and 32. And two of them have a 15 frame startup. Not that awesome when you have things like Elbow Dash and Spin lurking around.
 
kandehbar

kandehbar

The Gryphon
what smoke needs is a combo off D1 that leads to a launcher for the luls
but not only that the way smoke positions his hands is so fucking awkward he looks like a fucking retard when he attacks and its just his hit boxes are weird as shit when hes attacking but thats what we get for maining a Prague ninja right
 
InstantClasSiik

InstantClasSiik

Noob
hardwire said:
i still say make our 3 d1 2 a low starter

or make smoke bomb a true low hit
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3 d1 2 as a low starter could be really viable to give us some better options than just sweep for lows, so i totally agree with that.

Smoke bomb hitting as a low though? that would make smoke retarded good, people would bitch about it too much and we wouldnt hear the end of it
 
hardwire

hardwire

Noob
InstantClasSiik said:
3 d1 2 as a low starter could be really viable to give us some better options than just sweep for lows, so i totally agree with that.

Smoke bomb hitting as a low though? that would make smoke retarded good, people would bitch about it too much and we wouldnt hear the end of it
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why

it would just make people finnaly have to duck us like we have to duck kano or kung wow heck even quan chi has a better low starter that ends with an over head

talk about retarted cheap i can not play a quan chi when im rolling on my back meds i can never remember ok down ok up.
 
FrothyOmen

FrothyOmen

P!
low 3d12 starter would be horrible. That would mean that off of a jump in punch, it's essentially a guess as to whether to block high or low. I'm not sure if there's enough time for it to be fuzzy guarded well enough to not be imbalanced. Guarding that online would be actually impossible.
 
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