MKK Hanzo's Crazy 2018 UMK3 Matchup Chart

[ded]

What does the explosive combat option do? Does it eliminate the unblockables on incoming characters in 2v2?

yep, at least 99% of it

 

[MRIGOTBASS]

Yes, I have watched mafioso and he is really great and nice person.

I have general question tho: for me and the guys i am playing, no matter casuals or competitive, we always use 2on2 with explosive kombat option. i believe this is how the game should be played nowdays.

would you consider that or you want to keep 1on1 standard?

Would be nice if 2v2 was available online on a console, only way to play 2v2 online is use Mame, which is considered a bootleg version of the game, I personally will only play umk3 on official releases of the game by the OEM manufacture, XBL MKAK or 06, or PSN. Mame is not an official release of the game, IMO tournaments should never be played on Mame, Arcade Hardware or Console only.

 

[Mikemetroid]

I DONT KNOW HOW TO PLAY ONLINE

Completely unrrelated, do you remember playing UMK3 on the DS wayyy back in the day?

 

[ded]

Would be nice if 2v2 was available online on a console, only way to play 2v2 online is use Mame, which is considered a bootleg version of the game, I personally will only play umk3 on official releases of the game by the OEM manufacture, XBL MKAK or 06, or PSN. Mame is not an official release of the game, IMO tournaments should never be played on Mame, Arcade Hardware or Console only.

Sorry to go off topic, but what is wrong with MAME? I have played almost every single MK game on almost every single platform (including Arcade) and MAME is really great.

The XBLA version would be my second choice, if there were not the arena cycling and hidden characters issues + the fact that xbox 360 controller is horrible for this game and you cannot even customize the controls.

MKAK on PS3 had incredible delay, even offline. I have just tested it even on RPCS3 and it is there as well.

Both Xbox360 and PC version played way better and I have not noticed any differences between the two, but the MAME input feels better to me.

In addition, all MKAK are actually an emulation of the arcade version and are slower than MAME and real Arcade. I believe @MKK hanzo even made a video demonstration of that.

 

[MRIGOTBASS]

Sorry to go off topic, but what is wrong with MAME? I have played almost every single MK game on almost every single platform (including Arcade) and MAME is really great.

The XBLA version would be my second choice, if there were not the arena cycling and hidden characters issues + the fact that xbox 360 controller is horrible for this game and you cannot even customize the controls.

MKAK on PS3 had incredible delay, even offline. I have just tested it even on RPCS3 and it is there as well.

Both Xbox360 and PC version played way better and I have not noticed any differences between the two, but the MAME input feels better to me.

In addition, all MKAK are actually an emulation of the arcade version and are slower than MAME and real Arcade. I believe @MKK hanzo even made a video demonstration of that.

Its not the official version of the game, its bootleg, its a bootleg non official release of the game, you want to set world records u want to keep shit official then you play an official release of the game.

You want the prestige of being the man, either play it on a official release or the arcade hardware.

Fact of the matter is that Mame runs like a pile of shit on even the best hardware, it slows down offline, minor shit affects the game wifi, windows updates, background processes, other software interacting with the video subsystem, its beyond a pile of shit, not official midway or WB release and shouldnt be used for tournament play EVER.

This is why Billy Mitchell aka The King of Kong just got busted cheating with mame, the game can be manipulated, save states, modified, ect. To keep it short and sweet its bootleg as hell and no other game or official record or event would ever allow that to be used.

 

[Badboy Takuma]

bass is right! classic mk is only playable on highest levels at the original arcade cabinet! all other ports have some lag among other problems.
i played back then in chile at highest levels also i am owner of 2 original cabinets.
my 2 cents

 

[Juggs]

Yes, I have watched mafioso and he is really great and nice person.

I have general question tho: for me and the guys i am playing, no matter casuals or competitive, we always use 2on2 with explosive kombat option. i believe this is how the game should be played nowdays.

would you consider that or you want to keep 1on1 standard?

2v2 is great, as long as there’s a rule that you can’t pick the same character twice.

 

[Konqrr]

I agree with @MKK hanzo on the playing online thing... I am very sensitive to even the slightest delay and can't play effectively at all. Even offline MAME has input lag on a high end computer. I recently played on an arcade cabinet and it was night and day how it felt.

 

[Juggs]

I agree with @MKK hanzo on the playing online thing... I am very sensitive to even the slightest delay and can't play effectively at all. Even offline MAME has input lag on a high end computer. I recently played on an arcade cabinet and it was night and day how it felt.

I am the same way, it’s why I stopped playing UMK3 online. No point, not fun and people take it seriously when there’s a shit ton of lag and delay. Absolutely pointless.

 

[MRIGOTBASS]

I agree with @MKK hanzo on the playing online thing... I am very sensitive to even the slightest delay and can't play effectively at all. Even offline MAME has input lag on a high end computer. I recently played on an arcade cabinet and it was night and day how it felt.

Laptop with Xeon Processor, 64 gigs of ram, a 8 gig hardware video card, nvme drives cost $5000, runs Visual Studio, SQL Server, shit is amazing, yet ....... Wont run Mame 119 at full speed and is slow offline.
Spent hours disabling every damn thing in the world, WIFI, Aero Peek, watching taskmgr, processes all that cannot get mame to run correctly.

Xbox live, Power Button, Start, Play.

Mame should have never been used for any events, and should never EVER be used again.

Funny to think that the tournaments that I went to were being run on DLP Projectors and 40" first gen flatscreen TVs attached to Mame like it was ok.

Unreal

 

[Juggs]

Laptop with Xeon Processor, 64 gigs of ram, a 8 gig hardware video card, nvme drives cost $5000, runs Visual Studio, SQL Server, shit is amazing, yet ....... Wont run Mame 119 at full speed and is slow offline.
Spent hours disabling every damn thing in the world, WIFI, Aero Peek, watching taskmgr, processes all that cannot get mame to run correctly.

Xbox live, Power Button, Start, Play.

Mame should have never been used for any events, and should never EVER be used again.

Funny to think that the tournaments that I went to were being run on DLP Projectors and 40" first gen flatscreen TVs attached to Mame like it was ok.

Unreal

I actually agree. I think the best would be using the arcade cabinets. But I heard there’s slight delay with the controller modification on them.

I still believe offline that 06 UMK3 is the best, aside from arcade of course. I think 06 is the best then MAME, again, in regards to offline.

To me, online they all suck. But that’s also because I have shit internet so it’s whatever. I just want to play the damn game without massive amounts of lag and delay, is that too much to ask?

 

[MKK hanzo]

I actually agree. I think the best would be using the arcade cabinets. But I heard there’s slight delay with the controller modification on them.

I still believe offline that 06 UMK3 is the best, aside from arcade of course. I think 06 is the best then MAME, again, in regards to offline.

To me, online they all suck. But that’s also because I have shit internet so it’s whatever. I just want to play the damn game without massive amounts of lag and delay, is that too much to ask?

I also like a LOT 06UMK3, sadly it doesnt has button config for pad users.

I agree with @MKK hanzo on the playing online thing... I am very sensitive to even the slightest delay and can't play effectively at all. Even offline MAME has input lag on a high end computer. I recently played on an arcade cabinet and it was night and day how it felt.

The next best solution I have found is on a modded console (360) and use MAME + a CRT TV and wired sticks. If there is a difference, it might be minima, but it doesnt throw my timing off like MKA offline vs Arcade

2v2 is great, as long as there’s a rule that you can’t pick the same character twice.

Ugh, and from there we start going Smash Bros with rules. That is why I stopped playing MKT seriously.

Completely unrrelated, do you remember playing UMK3 on the DS wayyy back in the day?

Yes, and even then I sucked more at compensating for the online. Ermac, Mileena and all those other chars are out of the question for me.

Does people REALLY consider online is the same or some sort of valid gameplay when one is NOT accustomed/playing his 100%?

Yes, I have watched mafioso and he is really great and nice person.

I have general question tho: for me and the guys i am playing, no matter casuals or competitive, we always use 2on2 with explosive kombat option. i believe this is how the game should be played nowdays.

would you consider that or you want to keep 1on1 standard?

Ugh no. I dont like 2 on 2 or 3 on 3. Just for fun and kicks I somehow play those modes. Matches drags for TOO long IMO.


Happy Easter everyone BTW(Is today right?)

 

[Konqrr]

Laptop with Xeon Processor, 64 gigs of ram, a 8 gig hardware video card, nvme drives cost $5000, runs Visual Studio, SQL Server, shit is amazing, yet ....... Wont run Mame 119 at full speed and is slow offline.
Spent hours disabling every damn thing in the world, WIFI, Aero Peek, watching taskmgr, processes all that cannot get mame to run correctly.

Xbox live, Power Button, Start, Play.

Mame should have never been used for any events, and should never EVER be used again.

Funny to think that the tournaments that I went to were being run on DLP Projectors and 40" first gen flatscreen TVs attached to Mame like it was ok.

Unreal

I don't know for sure, but perhaps that version of MAME (or all?) could be programmed to only use one processor core or something like that. This would explain the poor performance.

Sadly we don't have UMK3 arcade cabinets that we can bring to events, well... @tehdrewsus has the hookup for his tournament this month!

 

[MKK hanzo]

Speaking of emulators, delay and stuff. This seems interesting!

https://www.libretro.com/index.php/retroarch-1-7-2 - achieving-better-latency-than-original-hardware-through-new-runahead-method/

 

[Shock]

I can have portable MK stations made with lagless video, and USB but they are expensive.

 

[tehdrewsus]

I can have portable MK stations made with lagless video, and USB but they are expensive.

Are you talking about a super gun or what?

 

[MKK hanzo]

Are you talking about a super gun or what?

I can have portable MK stations made with lagless video, and USB but they are expensive.

And if so, would they output to crt tvs? Or hd lcds? For both, how do you overcome the "jumping screen" that most cga encoders produce?

(Really interested if someone manage to consolize a UMK3 board!)

 

[THTB]

Speaking of emulators, delay and stuff. This seems interesting!

https://www.libretro.com/index.php/retroarch-1-7-2 - achieving-better-latency-than-original-hardware-through-new-runahead-method/

Jesus, a 70.66% decrease in game performance at a 2f read-ahead...

That method would be fantastic if it wasn't so intensive on your CPU lol. If that gets optimized somehow to dramatically reduce the performance hit by like 75% of that figure, it could potentially make SBC setups super viable as a low-latency option for emulation. But yeah, emulation just has to hold that, otherwise, as convenient they can be on an accessibility scale. Especially MAME.

That said, I do have a Pi setup I wanna test with the crowd someday to see how stuff fares with latency and performance. If by some blasted miracle I can make it to GIIO, I'll bring it.

 

[Shock]

You can do whatever video output you'd like but it depends what you want to do with the signal ultimately. I have to discuss it further and get a final cost but I've played arcade games on a pretty sophisticated setup and I was blown away.

Unrelated, I started a project over 5 years ago with Mud409, before the tech improved, but he disappeared about 75% of the way through. He has a Zeus board of mine, and a few hundred dollars worth of hardware, I think he had a family issue but I'm not sure, he had other projects with the Vampire Savior community as well that he dropped. It was going to be a BNC output that required a specific CRT monitor, with a video adapter that handled the refresh rate which came out around the time, and a 4 port PSX controller bar but now we have other options. If it's going to be a practical possibility, I'll post it ASAP, but it is possible.

 

[MKK hanzo]

Really interested Shock! BTW Im uploading some vids now that may gather some interest!

 

[tehdrewsus]

This would be great conversation at Ohio this weekend! Even some stream time could be allocated! @Shock @THTB @MKK hanzo @ded

 

[tehdrewsus]

@MKK hanzo I'm having trouble with Jade being so much lower than Mileena and Kitana, especially with the logic used for justifying Mileena being #8 on that list - female ninja offense/defense properties on normals, etc.

Mileena has to work VERY hard for her high damage combos. Jade and Kitana have the same 4 hit HK combo, Jade has the 7 hit combo, the 4 hit knockdown that can be swept at the end on certain characters/timing. Not to mention the novelty of projectile invincibility, directional AND return boomerang options... Mileena just doesn't add up with the height on her sais, and the insane liability of punishment if the roll or the tele kick are blocked. I'm from North America and I've only been around the game for 5 years, but I don't see A) the viability for Mileena to be up that high, and B) the disparity between her and Jade on the tier list.

@Shock @Juggs @dubson @MRIGOTBASS @ded @Biggs

 

[Biggs]

@MKK hanzo I'm having trouble with Jade being so much lower than Mileena and Kitana, especially with the logic used for justifying Mileena being #8 on that list - female ninja offense/defense properties on normals, etc.

Mileena has to work VERY hard for her high damage combos. Jade and Kitana have the same 4 hit HK combo, Jade has the 7 hit combo, the 4 hit knockdown that can be swept at the end on certain characters/timing. Not to mention the novelty of projectile invincibility, directional AND return boomerang options... Mileena just doesn't add up with the height on her sais, and the insane liability of punishment if the roll or the tele kick are blocked. I'm from North America and I've only been around the game for 5 years, but I don't see A) the viability for Mileena to be up that high, and B) the disparity between her and Jade on the tier list.

@Shock @Juggs @dubson @MRIGOTBASS @ded @Biggs

Mileena's roll punishes sweeps, LK, and HK for full combo. Its possible to get her sai to hit at the right hieght, but the charge time is the issue. Mileena simply has higher damage output with the same normals. Its just that America does not have any high level Mileenas like we have with Jade and Kitana

 

[tehdrewsus]

Mileena's roll punishes sweeps, LK, and HK for full combo. Its possible to get her sai to hit at the right hieght, but the charge time is the issue. Mileena simply has higher damage output with the same normals. Its just that America does not have any high level Mileenas like we have with Jade and Kitana

I keep her in my pocket. She's not as developed as she could be in my Arsenal, but I do okay with her. But that role activates damage protection and even in the corner it's hard to get high damage with it

 

[Biggs]

I keep her in my pocket. She's not as developed as she could be in my Arsenal, but I do okay with her. But that role activates damage protection and even in the corner it's hard to get high damage with it

Yes the roll activates damage scaling, but even then her average damage output in a combo will exceed Kitana and Jade.

A blocked teleport vs Mileena results in a 50% damage punish (like Kitana), which Jade struggles to meaningfully punish. Mileena has a pop-up mid hitting knee that will result in around 30%. In comparison, I think the female ninja 4 hit kick combo does 24%. Mileena's 5 hit combo is also a excellent punisher that will result in around 40% (also option selectable with glitchjab). Any respectable roll combo midscreen will do at least 30%. In the corner a good roll combo will hit around 40%.

Mileena is basically Jade with a higher damage output and better punishes. In contrast Jade has a boomerang, which does not really matter, and glow, which is matchup specific. Mileena has roll that is a mid launcher that punishes sweeps, HK, LK and crossover jumpins for more damage than Shadow Kick, Sai (You have to charge it, but its a nice combo ender and is sufficiently plus on block with the instant air version), and Teleport (This move is good vs jumps and allows mileena to switch sides during combos to offer better positioning towards a corner).

Mileena is just a higher exectution character, and very hard to play at a high level