Logical Suggested Balance MK9

[xxteefxx]

why nerf the projectile?
so what do you guys want him to do sit there and dash crouch his way in?
let me just ask who does jax really out-zone and i mean not based on if he get the first hit i mean completely out-zone?? lets see how long this list is gonna be



Im just gonna assume that you mean f+4,1,3 anywhere you have said f+4,1,2

you do realise that after a blocked d+1 you can poke back right there is no frame advantage

examine the F+4 string where is the mixup on block there is no overhead in the string its simply a low starter to highs if you opt for the low ender 2 lows, but yes you can put in the f4 into OS thats a mixup tru but its only gonna get poked out of at the very least, and yes with meter this f+4 OS is safe and kills pokers



in the corner even if you have a low hitbox the 1 always hit



so where exactly would you like him to be at an advantage
you take away his average zoning and the little advantage on his low starter combo hmm

so after you take away his his armour on his over head where does his wake up options go ??

wanna see it? simply have raiden using EX teleport and try to Special move counter it.

hey! thnx for posting. i have some time to quickly post some stuff , and so i shall do.

first off...AGAIN! this list is for FUN! it's called suggestion guys. storming my brains out trianing to understand the mentality around me so i can come at the end , with the CORRECT balance. instead of going on every section of a character, and talk about these suggestions, i instead put them all in one thread.

purpose? attraction instead of sayin words and they get neglected. other purpose? group work. last purpose, researching and gathering while having fun.

people instead think that THIS IS THE LIST! and they are taking it way seriously that they are crying about it too! without look at the whole notes as a whole.
if people are crying now! then you guys will hate me next week when i continue this list with what i got in here, and release the videos.....just FYI*!!
also, another FYI....this is a Draft ^_^ ...like people will hate me more that's for sure.

- as for the projectile. hmm so u dont think it's a little fast in that case?
alright, so u think Jax needs only projectile to zone? Not ground pounce, ground pounce Cancels, AA air, whiffed qcf+2 punch form distances,and standing 1 as AA ........ so because of projectile being fast, u think Jax can zone in and out? and in that case, how bout the other options i just mentioned?

- Im just gonna assume that you mean f+4,1,3 anywhere you have said f+4,1,2
correct, my mistake and will be fixed soon. f+4,1,3 and f+4,1,4

-you do realise that after a blocked d+1 you can poke back right there is no frame advantage

correct. ty for pointing this out. i was to lazy to write up the reason why because i will talk about this later on at the end of this week or POSSIBLE next week at most.
the reason why i put it like that here for now, is that i was thinking of doing cr+1 UNIVERSAL to all characters. and that instead of SPEED and hitbox affecting cr+1 to be used for some Air purposes, it will only be Hitbox issue. thus making the use of cr+1 to all characters easier.
also, it will be rewarding to use it to all instead just few from the cast as AA or anti cross over.

if cr+1 has been added with one extra frame recovery, this extra one frame recovery will help in making f+4,1,3 traps whiffing on some large to extra large hitbox opponents. it will give them a chance to breath and requiration for jax to dash in to input f+4 series . this making it

On large hitboxes and above, u dont have to dash after f+4,1,3 stagger, instead u can chain it anywhere on screen. med screen x2 and corner for infinite loop.
corner ofcourse is even deadlier on any hurtboxes but small ones.
thats why i mentioned this!! 1 extra frame wont hurt at all in any case but for THIS! ...still will be able to AA, anti cross over as well as even loops of ex ground pounce if they will still exist/not removed.

so i dont see why will that make people cry.
here's a reply to Foxy grandpa about f+4,1,3. u can really relate cr+1 example in here to the hurtbox so u can understand:


9 Character in the game,can fully punish f+4,1,3 ....and not f+4~ EX over head, Not f+4,1,4.not footsie, NOT f+3 before inputting f+4,1,3 in corner ..... they cannot even a standing Standing attack due to the HORRID block system where it adds frames on releasing block! by means, ur only solution of answering is a VERY fast 6 framer moves (whether special or normal or armored).
THAT IF JAX DID MIX IT UP!! by means if u tried to poke f+4,1,4, u will just poke him.....to counter the other miss up with FULL COMBOS! you have to use armored fast active frame moves. For example Kabal cant EX dash in between cause he will get stuffed by the last low hit from F+4,1,4
so ur basing an escape chance, OFF OF a mix up :S

though what about the rest of the roaster? where they cannot crouch block f+4 series due to their hitbox?
in that case, if your saying 10 others characters, what about the other 22 characters in the game?

let me explain in details here for others as well to read:the characters that can duck blocking from jax's f+4,1,3 are:
-Kung Lao
-Jhonny Cage
-Sektor
-Sonya
-Reptile
-Kabal
-Quanchi
-Skarlett
-Jax

There are 4 types of hurtboxes in the game while crouching. Small, Medium, Large and Extra Large and above.
Small: Reptile, Sonya, Cage, Kung,Kabal,sektor,Quachi,Skarlett,Jax
Medium: Kitana,Mileena, Jade,Cyrax,sindell,Kano
Large: Baraka, Shang, Subzero,Ermac,Smoke,Noob,Night wolf,Raiden, Cyber Sub,Rain,Kratos,Kenshi,Krugur,Stryker, Raiden,scorpion
Extra large and above: Sheeva

now these hurtboxes are for Blocking Crouch hurtbox and crouching in general only! no normals on action.

Against Small Char:
You can Jump in with a punch (blocked), do f+4,1,3 . the 1 and 3 from the combo will whiff on those characters. happens in corner as well.
to get opponent OFF this escaping neutral with crouch blocking, jax can do a Mix up first of f+3. if it hit opponent, opponent can no longer duck from the f+4,1,3 while blocking...this happens in corner only

Against medium char:
f+4,1,3 in close will NEVER WHIFF ANYWHERE! in corner no need for f+3 med attack to get them off as well.
though, any distance further than cr+3 on block or hit, f+4,1,3 will whiff (NOT IN CORNER! only med screen)
by means, against those characters in med screen, u half to Kara f+4 series, or simply DASH if u want it to connect after footsies of cr+3 or 1 (or even cr+4)
please note, f+4 is a 9 framer start up!

Against Large Char:
Footsies or not, f+4,1,3 is not escapable or punishable at all! period! corner or not as well. in corner, u can do infinite loops of F+4,1,3 without a single footsie input before the f+4. just simply f+4,1,3 over and over
add to that, the random advantage f+4,1,3 has depending on the distance (too close will mostly result in an advantage on f+4,1,3 frame recovery)
so by means , ur first f+4,1,3 is completely advantages! pure form of frame trap. so u will have to block the first one no matter wut.

for god sake , i saw it with my own eyes where it ATE UP AN XRAY!! not a meter drain bug with an armor move!! NO!! an X ray! lol.....and it happened to me as well!
like what more than that?

Extra large and above chars:
Same deal like above mentioned example on Large


please be aware, the f+4,1,3 hitbox , is the same to any of his 2 starting target combos series!!. they have the same Exact advantage. by means, jax REALLY doesnt need the 1,2 series unless used aganist standing blockers .
not only that, i excluded the FACT! that you can mix up after f+4.....like really, jax can mind fuck with solely with only f+4! dont under estimate that



-in the corner even if you have a low hitbox the 1 always hit

not correct. read above


-wanna see it? simply have raiden using EX teleport and try to Special move counter it.

haha, ty for mentioning this...i really really appreciate it Really! it proves that some people are awake to wuts going on! unlike a lot of others in here.


anyways, ty for replying. if u need any further explanation, please reply . thnx!

 

[xxteefxx]

This thread is why we can't have nice things

ohh ya...it's my mistake Pagan.....my mistake!
i have another name for these kind of threads, which is called : "the common mistake" threads

add to that, the ability that i was SOO impatient and posted the draft instead for waiting for like couple of months and post everything at once.

 

[xxteefxx]

You and I should work for NRS. Your Miami Dolphins also need a buff.

and u should have a whale Avatar....so i can, FUCK YOU WHAAALOOOOO, AND DOLPHEEEN!


With that said, Sektor should have an unblockable projectile, flamethrower should reach full screen, all his EX moves should have super armor, instant start up on normal TU, and he should get another costume.*


:facepalm: lol
king of all the trolls my friend....i swear ur a king ^_^

i wonder what ur reaction will be when u READ or see my nerfs and buffs to sektor lol....seriously, i will expect after reading it, that u will come to me and say...Teef, i am sorry but this is not gonna work! rofl

 

[xxteefxx]

i shall continue posting later. got to go for school home work and finals this weekend

thank you all for posting and please stay posting! i shall respond to every reply that i missed for sure soon. thnx again!

 

[eskuAdradit0]

People you should think of this as a rebalance of the WHOLE game, not particular cases. Going "what shang just won a tourney and you want him nerfed d00d usuxmang" is completely pointless because you're missing the whole idea on the first post. This game is balanced as their first tourney-game try, but it's got some flaws on the game design, which is what we're discussing here, in order to help NRS with some ideas, not to start a flame war.

So please, with this mindset, try reading first post again.

 

[CY MasterHavik]

I wish I could close this thread.

 

[PimpUigi]

I wish I could close this thread.

I would close it if I was a mod.
Also, if I was a mod, I wouldn't be double, triple, or quad posting. I would know of the edit button.

 

[Ashenar]

Tbh balance is over rated.

 

[Ashenar]

Also pimuigi pretty much causes any threads he gets ahold of to be full of useless rabble.

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

i was sure that it hits all the while on crouch blocking opponents in the corner will test it against sonya and scarlet when i wake up tomorrow and see if it ever wiffs

 

[Dark_Rob]

Watching this thread closely gentlemen. Keep it on track and stop slinging mud at each other.

 

[PimpUigi]

Also pimuigi pretty much causes any threads he gets ahold of to be full of useless rabble.

Ash Kethchum (All!) can you teach me how to raise a pokemon?
Not gonna lie though, I think balance in MK9 is very respectable. UP characters are completely blown out of proportion. I think every character in the game can compete right now.

Jade...I bet she's got some sweet tech in there somewhere.
If only I had made a guide for her instead of Mileena and Scorpion...

 

[Ashenar]

Your Pokemon reference is as amateur as your scorpion play you should just retire. Wait that would have required you to have actually have played the game at a decent level. Oh well!

 

[Skkra]

Posting as someone new to the competitive MK community, but as a loooongtime student of fighting games at high level - the game is pretty good as is. I've been pouring over these forums and watching high-level gameplay nonstop over the last month, and I don't see any one dominant tactic that is blowing everything else out of the water and is therefore "broken."

Games need a long time to sit and breathe. The game is in a very solid competitive state right now from what I've seen, with a giant variety of characters finishing in Top 8 in tournaments. Almost every single character seems viable - heck, in some cases, its a matter of waiting for the right player to come along (see the recent cases of Jax and Shang) and bust their potential wide open.

Give this game another YEAR before we ask for any kind of balance patching. I like the game the way it is right now. Let it develop!

 

[Sasuga]

I think the negative edge problem can easily be fixed. Right now, there is a degree of lenience to executing special moves. You can execute moves as soon as you press the last required direction. You don't even have to release the previous direction. So you can do Rain's roundhouse by D,DB+4. This causes a lot of problems in combination with NE. If special moves were required to be cleaner, eg. first down, then back and release down+4, I think it would be way better.

 

[Pagan]

ohh ya...it's my mistake Pagan.....my mistake!
i have another name for these kind of threads, which is called : "the common mistake" threads

add to that, the ability that i was SOO impatient and posted the draft instead for waiting for like couple of months and post everything at once.

It's all good Teef. Nobodies perfect.

 

[Pagan]

Edit

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

and u should have a whale Avatar....so i can, FUCK YOU WHAAALOOOOO, AND DOLPHEEEN!


With that said, Sektor should have an unblockable projectile, flamethrower should reach full screen, all his EX moves should have super armor, instant start up on normal TU, and he should get another costume.*


:facepalm: lol
king of all the trolls my friend....i swear ur a king ^_^

i wonder what ur reaction will be when u READ or see my nerfs and buffs to sektor lol....seriously, i will expect after reading it, that u will come to me and say...Teef, i am sorry but this is not gonna work! rofl

I couldn't find what you said about Sektor. However, I'm saying this as your friend (and I am not trolling right now); if these changes were made to the game, I would quit right away.

 

[PimpUigi]

Your Pokemon reference is as amateur as your scorpion play you should just retire. Wait that would have required you to have actually have played the game at a decent level. Oh well!

Hm...such saltyness from someone I've never met nor insulted.
We'll have to do a money match when we meet up.
You could have just told me you wouldn't teach me about Pokemon, and explained about how you gave your Charizard away.

It's funny how in real life everyone seems to like me, yet on the forums, I run into Ash and he doesn't like me.
Wouldn't it be funny if we became best friends? Best friends! And then I can phone him up at his house and say...
"Is Ash there??? Just tell him it's me!!" Oh that would be just the best.
Aw...but then I suppose Ash doesn't have like, a million friends already. But then again, maybe he doesn't. It's difficult to say.

I couldn't find what you said about Sektor. However, I'm saying this as your friend (and I am not trolling right now); if these changes were made to the game, I would quit right away.

This is more what I should have said.

 

[Ashenar]

Tbh from what I remember at nec behind your back none really liked you they just didn't want to shatter your fraile personality. I personally don't care I just see you always putting your two pennies in everything and taking a semi decent thread and putting it into a hey everybody it's me pimpuigi. Seriously bro spend more time in the lab I don't want to take your lunch money.

 

[PimpUigi]

Okay then, thanks for being real and letting me know.
I disagree about the fragile part though.

 

[Big Pampering]

this is ridiculous, more patching is going to destory the game even further, its like trying to sew tofu together. And most of the changes are even ridiculous and illogical. youre just trying to nerf everybody and try to compete better with your own character

 

[Death]

Ashenar are you the raiden player from NEC?

 

[SGX]

I don't feel like hardly anything character wise needs nerfing right now. The last several patches have all brought plenty of nerfs for the top characters. Some of them I think were unnecessary. (Removing Smoke's OTG bomb, making Raiden's air superman crazy unsafe and making all his strings negative on block when they are already interruptable, removing johnny cage's f+3,2 nutpunch, Sonya's nerfs, etc)

For a game to stay interesting, or make people want to pick it back up, you need to give characters more options and new possibilities

I agree with the general system fixes/input bugs. I will say again, negative edge in this game is awful. It does NOT work like negative edge in other games, and is not necessary for this game either. Also, I definitely agree with blocking/recovering from blockstun needing to be faster. Currently I think it takes 3 frames to go in and 3 frames to come out of block. If this was reduced to 2/2 that would be a phenomenal change. It's very irritating to be able to SEE something, react to it, and still get hit in the face because it takes forever to block.

Oh, and the nerf to dashing, ughhhhh. Completely unnecessary.

 

[PimpUigi]

I don't feel like hardly anything character wise needs nerfing right now. The last several patches have all brought plenty of nerfs for the top characters. Some of them I think were unnecessary. (Removing Smoke's OTG bomb, making Raiden's air superman crazy unsafe and making all his strings negative on block when they are already interruptable, removing johnny cage's f+3,2 nutpunch, Sonya's nerfs, etc)

For a game to stay interesting, or make people want to pick it back up, you need to give characters more options and new possibilities

I agree with the general system fixes/input bugs. I will say again, negative edge in this game is awful. It does NOT work like negative edge in other games, and is not necessary for this game either. Also, I definitely agree with blocking/recovering from blockstun needing to be faster. Currently I think it takes 3 frames to go in and 3 frames to come out of block. If this was reduced to 2/2 that would be a phenomenal change. It's very irritating to be able to SEE something, react to it, and still get hit in the face because it takes forever to block.

Oh, and the nerf to dashing, ughhhhh. Completely unnecessary.

Now this post makes sense. (all the nerfs you listed were completely necessary though)
Giving characters more options and new possibilities makes people want to play a game more.

There really should be no start up to blocking. It should be instant. Furthermore coming out of block when no move has hit you should also be instant.
I don't even like the fast that pressing the block button shows your opponent that you're blocking. They should have to guess if a still opponent is blocking or not.

The dash nerf sucked, block cancelling all your dashes for no reason is a pain too. I honestly don't mind the change from my play perspective, but IMHO the change made some people quit the game. It was just a bad change when the games physics had already been established.