Logical Suggested Balance MK9

[xxteefxx]

dude, follow your own advice and read what others have been saying, no one is crying or complaining, simply dissagreeing, which they are more than entitled to do as its a discussion board. dont flip your shit just yet.

hha who said i did...omg. i am completely calm man. lol. the way i write READS very aggressive! due to the ...ya know caps and !*

i shall get back at ur reply soon as well. just now i have to go. shall continue this discussion later for sure.

if poeple are mis understanding....i am really Enjoying this! just FYI* ...i am really enjoying it! and am not angry, period! lol
it makes me tell stuff that i notice a lot of people are WAAAY not alert or aware off....PS: ii barely get angry in real life. just FYI*

talk to u later and thnx again as well

 

[PND_Ketchup]

I'm sorry but whoever put on that list that RAIDEN , a character who has never won a major and was almost never used, should get another teleport nerf is dumn. That's why my cousin quit the fucking game. He realized that this company was going to listen to people that played online, and that's exactly what happened. A teleport nerf lol. he was at frame disadvantage when he the teleport in the first place. So everytime he teleports your opponent should get a free combo

Ok Josh you need to get the thought that a character isn't good because they haven't won a major out of your head. Sonya hasn't won a major and are you going to say sonya isn't a good character?

 

[PimpUigi]

IMHO the only logical changes are to 1. nerf Cyrax so that he is in line with the rest of the cast.
2. Nerf Jax's projectile and EX elbow back to what they were.
3. Undo the nerf Jade received.
4. Spear whiff should be toned down to the same whiff recovery hellfire has.

Kabal is probably fine...
5. Fix EX Block glitch, and GG, game is perfect.
Possibly undo the dash nerf too...highly unlikely it would happen though. Reo likes the new dash, and the devs said that machine gun dash didn't belong in the game : (

So yeah, five changes and the game is perfect.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

IMHO the only logical changes are to nerf Cyrax so that he loses his reset, and can only net 46% max off of one meter.
Nerf Jax's projectile and EX elbow back to what they were.
Undo the nerf Jade received.
Spear whiff should be toned down to the same whiff recovery hellfire has.

Kabal is probably fine...
Fix EX Block glitch, and GG, game is perfect.
Possibly undo the dash nerf too...highly unlikely.

Why should cyrax only get 45% in a combo? he lives and dies by his net.

 

[josh99]

Ok Josh you need to get the thought that a character isn't good because they haven't won a major out of your head. Sonya hasn't won a major and are you going to say sonya isn't a good character?

Out of that WHOLE statement, that's what you got out of it are you serious. what I'm trying to say is that he didn't need any nerfs, but if people bitch and complain enough, no matter how much they know about anything, it will happen. It's pointless

 

[josh99]

Ok Josh you need to get the thought that a character isn't good because they haven't won a major out of your head. Sonya hasn't won a major and are you going to say sonya isn't a good character?

Also when did i say that raiden was a bad character???????????? I said he was fine. they shouldn't have taken his teleport away...

 

[PimpUigi]

Why should cyrax only get 45% in a combo? he lives and dies by his net.

Does Net have some 60 frames of recovery I'm not aware of? As far as I know, it's reasonably safe to throw nets out.
45% is 5% more than most characters get in their combos.
If I throw out random spears, all it takes is one whiffed spear, even full screen whiffed spear, and Scorpion will eat a full jump punch combo.
It can be 3/4th screen ducked spear, and I'll eat a full jump punch combo.

And if I actually hit the spear, on an air borne opponent I get 21% and a 50/50
Grounded opponent will get me like, 27-29% and a 50/50

Net nets you way way more damage and guaranteed resets.

Besides...
Cyrax has tons of useful tools, beast AA grab, AA net, etc.
You are aware that like 85% of the characters in the game get 40% off of their main BNB right????

 

[Tolkeen]

Tolkeen:

facepalm*
duuude....really lol.
the same thing as cyrax. which is "DEAL WITH IT!" attitude
your like saying:
" i went to Starbucks to buy some coffee....when i was ordering, the cashier Employer got a gun out and pointed it at my face and said, how can i help u today sir"

and then instead of tryin to fix the solution of "HOW THE FUCK" or "WHY THE FUCK", did this guy point a gun at you...your simply trying to negotiate on how to get around him!! JUST to get ur cup of coffee :S
not right in the first place, and not logical at all.

It's an 8 second damage boost, that he deserves, because he caught you with a soul steal to finish the round. It's not like he won with a skull and then gets the damage boost. It's a super rare occurence on a move that is punishable on block and does 2% damage on chip. Seeing as the shang has to fish for a soul steal, I don't think it's worth changing. Kung Lao can throw an ex ground hat and hold it until the start of the next round. This is the same thing. Avoid the hat, avoid a combo. Shang just won a tourney, but there's no need to jump on the nerf wagon already.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

Out of that WHOLE statement, that's what you got out of it are you serious. what I'm trying to say is that he didn't need any nerfs, but if people bitch and complain enough, no matter how much they know about anything, it will happen. It's pointless

It's just something i see you say alot, and i think it's a thought that needs to go lol.

Raidens ability to safely teleport away from all danger was B.S in my opinion, now he has to use it on reaction as opposed to just throwing it out there.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

Does Net have some 60 frames of recovery I'm not aware of? As far as I know, it's reasonably safe to throw nets out.
45% is 5% more than most characters get in their combos.
If I throw out random spears, all it takes is one whiffed spear, even full screen whiffed spear, and Scorpion will eat a full jump punch combo.
It can be 3/4th screen ducked spear, and I'll eat a full jump punch combo.

And if I actually hit the spear, on an air borne opponent I get 21% and a 50/50
Grounded opponent will get me like, 27-29% and a 50/50

Net nets you way way more damage and guaranteed resets.

Besides...
Cyrax has tons of useful tools, beast AA grab, AA net, etc.
You are aware that like 85% of the characters in the game get 40% off of their main BNB right????

Cyrax's net is easy to punish, if he throws it out at a safe distance that's clever spacing, at safe net range it's easy to dodge especially as it doesn't do any chip damage.

People are getting ridiculous with what changes they want, Cyrax hasn't got a vortex like scorpions, he hasn't got free damage after attacks (ex hellfire) the resets need to go yes, but asking to lower his actual damage too is absurd. If you're dumb enough to trade with the net at tradeable distances you deserve to be punished for it.

 

[PimpUigi]

-deleted post-
Let me rephrase my Cryax proposal to something more accurate.
Tone him down to be in line with the rest of the cast. Whatever your opinion of that may be.

I'm not Cyrax'd up enough to decide numbers or anything.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

Sub Zero's freeze nets Sub Zero 48%, and he has much weaker tools than Cyrax, and no vortex as well.
The comparisons can go on and on, it's just easiest for me to make comparisons to Mileena and Scorpion as I play those characters the most.

Cyrax is a completely different league right now with 60% off of 1 meter, and no reset.
That's...tons and tons of damage quite honestly.

When Ermac got 60% off of 1 meter, he got nerfed to 51%
*Logically* Cyrax needs a similar nerf, as he has better, safer tools than Ermac.

I honestly don't care much.
The game is near fine, and Cyrax isn't going to leave the top characters no matter what nerfs he gets.

sub zero freezes for longer, sub zero has an armoured slide, sub zero has an ice clone.

You make it sound like cyrax is good purely because of his damage, what if you manage to turtle cyrax out so he doesn't have a chance to get that damage on you? I.E how you fight cyrax in the first place. What about mileenas D4? or her ability to get a divekick off any projectile shes see's? what about her roll?, or her air control? every character has powerful tools.

Sektor can get 50% midscreen or 47% and UM pressure on wakeup, lets nerf his damage, lets get rid of his ability to do UM's after strings because other characters can't do that. Lets also nerf his instant air teleport, because being able to punish all projectiles in the game bar a few is op and sub zero can't do that.

That seems to be the logic you have, no offence i just think it's a bit farfetched.

 

[PimpUigi]

Sorry, I rewrote my post while you posted. : (
I rethought myself.

How do you turtle Cyrax out while he drops bombs all over the place?
I don't have enough Cyrax experience to answer that.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

Sorry, I rewrote my post while you posted. : (
I rethought myself.

How do you turtle Cyrax out while he drops bombs all over the place?
I don't have enough Cyrax experience to answer that.

1.learn the bomb timing before it explodes
2. never jump towards or away from the bombs.
3. dash or walk out of the bombs blast radius and get a projectile off before he shoots another one, it's a matter of predicting if the net is coming and if it is just block it after you've moved away from the bomb.

Yes it's annoying but it can be done, after you hit him with a projectile because of the characters i use the hits give stumble or at least give me the momentum so he cant go for a bomb OR a net because if he does he'll get hit by another projectile.

I don't want to be offensive but i wish people would give nerf/buff suggestions AFTER having that match up 100%

 

[PimpUigi]

No worries. I mostly agree with you on that. That's my reasoning behind my post edits.

 

[eskuAdradit0]

The damage boost lasts for 6-8 seconds, 12-15 if EX. Part of fighting shang now is to not make a mistake within the first 8 seconds of the second round. It's not that game changing. Plus, if he is fishing for a combo that early on, if you block his upskull, punish accordingly.

Regular damage voost lasts for 5 seconds. Ex makes it last for 8.

If you block my upskull I'm at +3. I'll just use my 9f jabs and 6f pokes to get you into my blockstrings.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

To be honest The Cyrax resets are annoying but they are something I can live with. Against Cyrax it's simple. Hop bombs, jump over nets, walk back and forward, Be stingy with your meter, only keep it for breakers. Break AFTER the ex-bomb. Problem solved. Jax random frame advantage and other shenanigans. Simple. Take it like a man

Don't know why people struggle against Cyrax. Maybe since I use Sektor against Cyrax and outzone him it seems that way :-/

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

This thread is so useless. Instead of discussing how you think the game should be, why do we not spend more time discussing how we can work with what we have now?

Jax has won a lot of tournaments, and is obviously a good character. Is he OP? Who's to really say? Instead, we need to be constructive and discuss his weaknesses and how to use them in our advantage. Theorycrafting on balance will never make anyone a better player.

With that said, Sektor should have an unblockable projectile, flamethrower should reach full screen, all his EX moves should have super armor, instant start up on normal TU, and he should get another costume.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

With that said, Sektor should have an unblockable projectile, flamethrower should reach full screen, all his EX moves should have super armor, instant start up on normal TU, and he should get another costume.

Agreed. I'd like to add that all of Sektors upmissiles should be homing and EX upmissiles should act like homing landmines causing unblockable damage and a pop up for a combo. Also, his B,3,4 nor his 12B1 Shouldn't be duckable and should be plus 100 on block. His X ray should also do 100% damage.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

-Smoke:
1-Fix: Removal of smoke bomb reset while bomb still OTG
2-S*2: Increase the speed of EX bomb
3-S*: Air teleport should leave Smoke hanging slightly for more frames in the air, and not as safe as it is now.

I don't see why in God's name they should nerf Smoke's air teleport. It's already completely unsafe (assuming you're referring to when Smoke uses it to teleport behind the opponent). Like, I didn't even know Smoke users still used that since it's not even much of a viable strategy offline unless you do it very, very sparingly.

I'm also against the removal of the Smoke bomb reset. It requires meter, precise timing, and proper distancing in the corner if you want to do it 100% of the time. But I can understand why people would want it removed....at least over that other nerf your mentioned. >.>

$0.02

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

So you want to nerf Jax' rushdown and his zoning game? I'm not sure why because he'd be pretty much useless with these suggestions. It's hard enough pressuring low hitbox characters without nerfing his best and pretty much only decent pressure string (all the others have ridiculous start up and start off high hitting). Nerfing gotcha grab also seems odd, Jax takes a pretty big risk using it in pressure because he loses it whenever it whiffs. I agree with removing the 130% combos and nerfing the projectile though.

http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?16362-quot-soul-steal-bug-quot&p=292450&viewfull=1#post292450

Also yeah, Jax's recovery on his projectile is a little too good against characters with iafbs and similars.

why nerf the projectile?
so what do you guys want him to do sit there and dash crouch his way in?
let me just ask who does jax really out-zone and i mean not based on if he get the first hit i mean completely out-zone?? lets see how long this list is gonna be

1-S*: Way more frame recovery on f+4,1,2. also increase the frame startup of f+4,1,2 (or increase the frame end recovery of Cr+1)
2-S*/Fix: No more EX ground bounce Loops in corner (no more loops). by means, cannot re link cr+1 after a guarenteed OTG EX ground shake setup/ or completely kill gravity on the EX ground shake so u can preform something simple like cr+1~ forward punch strike (qcf+2)
3-S*: decrease the speed of projectile and increase recovery frame of projectile.
4-S*2: change the hurtbox property of cr+1 and or Frame recoveyr of the moves. no more easy pressure with cr+1~ f+4,1,2 (Refrence number 1)
5-S*2: Faster Sweep
6-S*: increase frame recovery on whiffed grab (qcf+1). No more Frame trap and pressure on guard with qcf+1's

A- Jax's f+4,1,2 is not his only decent string at all!

B- Gotcha grab on whiff is so fast to the eye that the only way to punish follow of the VERY FAST f+4 start up is by predicting...it's even hard to stuff in if jax going with a regular cr+1. not only that gotcha on gaurd doesnt push him far at all LEAVING JAX STILL ON PURE OFFENSE! in that case, punish f+4 and show me how if u dont have an armor move haha. i would like to see that in high level play!
not only that, but this is a tool ALONG a lot of other tools jax has. like cr+4~ overhead or cr+1~ overhead. f+4,1,2. f+2,1,4~ forward punch...etc



1- adding more frames on f+4,1,2 recovery will actually stop the randomness of advantage jax has after! really...not fun when it's a random chance that u can stuff after or block....the fact alone it's a pressure and frame trap, AND ADD to that a random advantage?
let alone, f+4,1 is an AMAZING frame trap....so technically ur dealing with a LOT of mind games just from f+4
A- f+4~over head (on block or hit)
B- f+4,1 frame trap (on block or hit)
C- f+4,1,2 frame trap follow up and advantage block pressure or stuffing pressure on random (on block or HIT as well)
D- f+4,1,2 on hit in corner leads to ...well u know for sure
E- f+4,1,2 on hit mid screen leads to mind games of ground pounce / ground pounce cancel

Im just gonna assume that you mean f+4,1,3 anywhere you have said f+4,1,2

you do realise that after a blocked d+1 you can poke back right there is no frame advantage

examine the F+4 string where is the mixup on block there is no overhead in the string its simply a low starter to highs if you opt for the low ender 2 lows, but yes you can put in the f4 into OS thats a mixup tru but its only gonna get poked out of at the very least, and yes with meter this f+4 OS is safe and kills pokers

do u know that jax can make it guarenteed against those opponent in corner? making this f+4 more AGRRESSIVE that it already is?
simply add f+3 Med attack as mix up before doin f+4 series. the f+3 on hit will actually left up opponent EVEN if they blocking! the rest of the series after f+4 cannot be ducked anymore....by means if u blocked, u will block all the hits by FORCE.

try it out

now here's the other thing....how about the rest of the cast? go to practice mode and try this on the other chars in the roaster. try it on any of those for a quick example : any of the Ninja's(ermac, sub,scorp except reptile!), NW, Sheeva, kenshi...etc
do the same thing (f+4,1,3) ...they simply cant duck the 1 .

now do u think this is fair? ....... ? why do u think Jax is S tier lol

in the corner even if you have a low hitbox the 1 always hit

Jax
S*remove armor from his overhead
S*higher recovery on his projectile
S*remove corner reset, or make it escapable by other means. Not just breaker
S*put Jax on neutral advantage after his low combo starter string.

so where exactly would you like him to be at an advantage
you take away his average zoning and the little advantage on his low starter combo hmm

so after you take away his his armour on his over head where does his wake up options go ??

wanna see it? simply have raiden using EX teleport and try to Special move counter it.

 

[Dann]

Jax has won a lot of tournaments, and is obviously a good character. Is he OP? Who's to really say? Instead, we need to be constructive and discuss his weaknesses and how to use them in our advantage. Theorycrafting on balance will never make anyone a better player.

all Jax needed was a ground and pound cancel and armor on the bionic arm. Every other buffs is unnecessary. Kabal has armor on his ex dash. To be truly effective he needed that, but what if his overhead blade grab had armor and his low ground saw recovered faster? that would make him a bullshit character just like Jax is right now. The projectile, armored overhead and the corner resets have to go. Honestly he doesn't need them but the fact that he has them makes him op

smoke's resets have to go. My friend can do it pretty consistently and he tells me is not that hard. That is my biggest problem right now.

This game does not have a comeback factor so after getting hit by Bullshit reset its almost impossible to comeback if you were losing prior to the resets. These resets make it extremely frustrating to play this game sometimes. In a game with no comeback factor 60% + combos should not exist.

Cyrax- i don't think there is a way to fix this character. Maybe if they made it so the bombs don't blow you up as high in the air it could at least make the resets a little harder to pull off. His damage output is retarded.

 

[gdf]

Am I reading this right, or does teef think Kung Lao needs more nerfs?

If so, I might as well start playing Tekken competitively, because Kung Lao has changed way too much, and I was just starting to create new tactics with him, that I might as well toss out the window.

BTW, Kung Lao is fine as is.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

Agreed. I'd like to add that all of Sektors upmissiles should be homing and EX upmissiles should act like homing landmines causing unblockable damage and a pop up for a combo. Also, his B,3,4 nor his 12B1 Shouldn't be duckable and should be plus 100 on block. His X ray should also do 100% damage.

You and I should work for NRS. Your Miami Dolphins also need a buff.

 

[Pagan]

This thread is why we can't have nice things