General/Other - Liu Kang Liu Kang and recommended nerf / information

[Ra Helios]

Well just nerf back 1 only in dragon fire then. Problem solve

 

[1man3letters]

Lolol I been calling him top 5 along with @Derptile since the beginning

ah come on man, call a spade a spade.
you were going on bout before how if they touch his cancels at all hes instant bottom tier, if thats not downplay i dunno what is.
also the recent thread you made although a frame data mistake (& everyone makes mistakes) reeked of downplay subtext.

i get your worried nrs might over ku-bawl...oops i mean kangp) but they dont seem to be going injustice scorpion on anyone asses this game, sure vanilla tanya made game look alot worse than scorpion did to injustice and shes still floating around grand

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

ah come on man, call a spade a spade.
you were going on bout before how if they touch his cancels at all hes instant bottom tier, if thats not downplay i dunno what is.
also the recent thread you made although a frame data mistake (& everyone makes mistakes) reeked of downplay subtext.

i get your worried nrs might over ku-bawl...oops i mean kangp) but they dont seem to be going injustice scorpion on anyone asses this game, sure vanilla tanya made game look alot worse than scorpion did to injustice and shes still floating around grand

Watch my video again dude maybe you will understand then. IF CALLING A CHARACTER TOP 5 is DOWNPLAYING.......... Silliest statement of the day goes too.......

Yes all Liu Kang dragons fire mains all agree it will kill him..

 

[@MylesWright_]

The main problem here is that Zyphox is winning with Liu Kang. The mere fact that a player of his calibre is able to compete against the likes of DJT means something has to be normalized

 

[Tweedy]

Can't you guys make a different thread for this lol jeez :,(

Lol sorry, bro. I'm not really one to go back and forth, so you can trust that I won't destroy your thread.

Nice video btw. Hopefully they go with your suggestion. I feel like somehow they'll end up hurting dualist and ff when they go to nerf DF.

The main problem here is that Zyphox is winning with Liu Kang. The mere fact that a player of his calibre is able to compete against the likes of DJT means something has to be normalized

What's wrong with Zyphox? He seems like a very solid player.

Was he like a horrible player on the other games? This is my first NRS game, so I don't know the lore. I have watched every major for this game. Zyphox, while he clearly isn't in the discussion for being the top Yomi guy, he consistently places top 16 and sometimes top 8. Him beating DJT in a first to two, pseudo block infinite or not, isn't outside the realm of possibility imo.


I know I said I wouldn't destroy your thread, Xarakamaka, but I figured i'd touch on another post in this post. Don't hurt me with your million iafb combos.

 

[Undeadjim]

Where would you put Liu Kang on the tier list currently and where would you place him if the Flying Kick MB were to happen @xarakamaka?

 

[ragnar0kz28]

fixes that would do good: after b1 there should be a gap to armor out, cancels need to be less +, problem solved, the fist variation, the punches should have 2 more recovery frames on block.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

Hi guys, just a quick video to clarify as to why destroying liu kangs true block strings is not the best idea and reasons as to why. Also I forgot to mention in the video that nerfing his f213 string only will GREATLY affect his other two vartiations.

p.s we all know liu kang should be nerfed but in the correct manner, i am not a downplayer but have always been a Liu kang up player since the beginning. thanks bros

Finally someone who thinks nerfing cancel characters is pointless because pressure is their only good tool

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

n
ex-nut punch going to combo and stand reset? at least, u have mix ups, becoming safe with cancels
try watch some killerXinok matches and u will see how good cage is. don't get salty.

Try watching some xarakamaka matches and u will see that liu kang is BETTER than cage....Don't kill me i beg you

 

[Undeadjim]

Finally someone who thinks nerfing cancel characters is pointless because pressure is their only good tool

Except pressure is not his only good tool, if it were he would be having to advance on half the cast except his space control is fantastic. Good walkspeed, quick recovery fireball + IAFB, a unreactable overhead that reaches very far and a good D2.

 

[Canapper]

Sorry but he deserves the Shinnok treatment >=)

 

[DsV_Sicarios408]

liu kang shouldn't be nerfed but I do agree about the push back on dk mb

 

[DsV_Sicarios408]

Liu kang only has zoning, pressure, and a good d2 but he still struggles with a lot with a lot of stuff all top tier characters and a couple mid tier can get out of his pressure

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Lolol I been calling him top 5 along with @Derptile since the beginning

I have him at number 6
1) Lao
2) Cassie
3) Tanya
4) Quan
5) Shinnok
6) KANG
7) Jax

Next to no anti-airs(Kung Lao has the best anti-airs)

Best D2 in the game isn't a good anti air, is it? Kung Lao needs meter for his EX spin. His normal spin gets blown up by things that Liu Kang's D2 destroys, every time.

God awful air-to-air game (Kung Lao is easy top 3 air-to-air)

Liu Kang has instant air fireballs. If you're jumping at people with jump kicks and jump punches with Liu Kang, you're playing the character wrong. He doesn't need to engage in a close air to air battle. Play Kung Lao and jump at people with his jump 2. You'll lose almost every exchange when you're in range of their jump punch, even vs Liu Kang. His J2 has a 10 frame start up. You'll see the best Kung Lao's jump back with his J2.

I know Kung Lao gets a full combo off of his jump 2. I'm just trying to shine light on why Kang isn't weak in these areas. Not downplaying Kung Lao.

A neutral game thats not even half as good

How is his neutral game not good when he has great projectiles? Projectiles are great at dictating the neutral, especially when you can do instant airs that shutdown jumping. Lets also not forget that Kang has top 3 movement speed. Advancing mids aren't everything on Mortal Kombat X. Shinnok is supposed to have some of the best spacing in the game. Where is his 11 frame or less advancing mid?

Lack of armored launcher reversal (Kung Lao has arguably the second best one)

To throw out your "Kung Lao has arguably the second best one" argument right away, EX flip kick and EX punch walk. Obviously there are a few more that have a case for being better than EX spin, like Tremor's EX shatter in Crystalline that's + on block. You can blow that up, though(still, + on block lol). EX flip kick and punch walk on the other hand cannot be blown up(i'm sure something that isn't practical might be possible) and are safe. If you debate that EX spin is better than either of those moves, well.

I don't play Liu Kang, but I believe he has a few armored moves that are safe on block, right? So instead of an armored move that's incredibly punishable, he has a move, or moves, that can't be punished. The trade off is that they don't launch. Although, even on block a mind game is opened up, and on hit, Kang gets his pressure. Not saying this should be preferred in Mortal Kombat X over a very punishable armored move, even though it might be, but it's not that bad of a deal.

Lets understand something here...lao is a character that overall has better space control than Kang both in the air and on the ground. This is what Kang mains are talking about. Kangs Space control is limited to sweep range, the air right above and in front of him, and mediocre, read-based zoning. The problem is that other characters control that space better than kang does which is acceptable by me because of his pressure.

In reality they are just two different characters:

Kang Zoning = Average
Kang normals = Average
Kang air control = Below average
Kang Pressure = Above average
Kang Mobility = Average

Lao Zoning = Below average
Lao normals = Above average
Lao air control = Above average
Lao Pressure = Above average (pretty much the same thing as kangs when you think about it)
Lao mobility = Above average

Can't you guys make a different thread for this lol jeez :,(

Nope sorry

The main problem here is that Zyphox is winning with Liu Kang. The mere fact that a player of his calibre is able to compete against the likes of DJT means something has to be normalized

But he is not winning. Did you watch the match? DJT got out played. Zyphox had the reads and DJT didn't pick the right spots to get out. That can happen.

fixes that would do good: after b1 there should be a gap to armor out, cancels need to be less +, problem solved, the fist variation, the punches should have 2 more recovery frames on block.

There is a gap after b12 into special unless they use FK mb. b12 into no special is - so that is your out.

 

[xxFalcon Loverxx]

Except pressure is not his only good tool, if it were he would be having to advance on half the cast except his space control is fantastic. Good walkspeed, quick recovery fireball + IAFB, a unreactable overhead that reaches very far and a good D2.

I kinda agree he has good damage good run speed good d2 good walk speed instant air fireball for some crazy damaging combos but if they do give him f213 fbrc make at least +7or 6 i think he'd be mid tier

 

[exflyingbooty]

Who is telling you all these lies that liu kang's zoning is average???? Who is telling you all these lies especially since he has low fireball and that can evade projectiles in a fireball war. If liu's zoning is on point he can just jump back air fireball.

Liu kangs zoning can piss off the dedicated zoners in this game, the only people he can't "outzone" are mournful kitana and hqt even then he has tools to get in really fast.

 

[omooba]

The block infinite has to go, Zyphox destroyed DJT with it on stream, adding a gap after b1 to armor out, and reducing the +frames after cancel, flamefists is not as bad offline as it is online (play murk online to see the online tactic abuse)

because something is more insane online than it is offline doesn't mean it has to go. it means NRS has to fix the netcode

 

[omooba]

Tremor has a 7 frame high, so what block infinite???

he keeps saving 8 frame 8 frame and i'm just like why are we acting like cassie cage isn't in this game

 

[omooba]

please pick up takeda and play a set vs @xarakamaka

Spoiler

back to topic though:
i agree with making his flyingkick MB 0 on block as well as maybe adding some pushback

pick liu liu against cassie

 

[PapaRegadetho]

Oh man, why do I feel DF Kang is going to get destoyed by Paulo The character will be left with 1 viable variation (that is if they don't buff Dualist ofc )
If that happens, whats the point of having the variation system anyways? It seems that Kotal Kahn is the only character who fully benefits from it..I guess pocket Kotal will be my main after the patch.

 

[omooba]

Oh man, why do I feel DF Kang is going to get destoyed by Paulo The character will be left with 1 viable variation (that is if they don't buff Dualist ofc )
If that happens, whats the point of having the variation system anyways? It seems that Kotal Kahn is the only character who fully benefits from it..I guess pocket Kotal will be my main after the patch.

disagree i honestly think most characters in the game have only 1 variation that isn't viable but on the liu kang topic i really hope they just leave dragons fire alone and buff dualist and maybe give flame fist a way to be safe without spending bar(which isn't necessarily safe)

 

[PapaRegadetho]

disagree i honestly think most characters in the game have only 1 variation that isn't viable but on the liu kang topic i really hope they just leave dragons fire alone and buff dualist and maybe give flame fist a way to be safe without spending bar(which isn't necessarily safe)

Yeah, but Kotals all three variations are viable, thats my point. Yeah, with all the heat he is getting, I doubt that's gonna happen. Flame Fist is alright, he builds meter all the time so its not that big of a deal to spend bars to be safe, but if they touch the F213 string it might hurt Flame Fist pretty good, including Dualist..specially Dualist...

 

[Phosferrax]

disagree i honestly think most characters in the game have only 1 variation that isn't viable but on the liu kang topic i really hope they just leave dragons fire alone and buff dualist and maybe give flame fist a way to be safe without spending bar(which isn't necessarily safe)

He has a way to be safe: don't do the WP on block unless you need the chip.

Asking for a safe option out of wp defeats the balance.

 

[omooba]

He has a way to be safe: don't do the WP on block unless you need the chip.

Asking for a safe option out of wp defeats the balance.

then what does he do 4 pressure? meterless

 

[Kaneki]

then what does he do 4 pressure? meterless

Mostly stagger and parry and some of the things people said before.


I honestly hope they don't Nerf F213 the wrong way and end up hurting which will change the overally playstyle of DF and FF a little. I was playing against a clan mate who was trying out DF earlier and I do agree that Liu infinite blockstring has to be fix and Liu have to be needed properly.

No matter what changes Liu has I'll still use him.