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General/Other - D'Vorah D'Vorah General Discussion Thread

TopTierHarley

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
Invincible Salads said:
how does swarm queens pressure work, and her oki, conversions.

the combo thread should be up to date right?
Click to expand...
Her main pressure tool is F112 wasp cancel. It's +12 on block and s2 and d4 are guaranteed. You can also throw in F112 wc F2/B1/throw for more of a mix-up but all those options can be beat out if read.
Corner pressure is mid screen pressure but you can now start doing 113 (+2) and check them with a d1(+18).
Oki revolves around puddle(+22) and now B3(+11) if they delay wakeup you can apply F1 pressure. Careful of B3 since it is a high now. You can either choose to end combos with 212 puddle, or b12 puddle. I use b12(+38) on hit into puddle but b12 isn't a hkd.
Conversions are pretty easy once you can wasp cancel.
Combo thread is updated.
 
Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
TopTierHarley said:
Her main pressure tool is F112 wasp cancel. It's +12 on block and s2 and d4 are guaranteed. You can also throw in F112 wc F2/B1/throw for more of a mix-up but all those options can be beat out if read.
Corner pressure is mid screen pressure but you can now start doing 113 (+2) and check them with a d1(+18).
Oki revolves around puddle(+22) and now B3(+11) if they delay wakeup you can apply F1 pressure. Careful of B3 since it is a high now. You can either choose to end combos with 212 puddle, or b12 puddle. I use b12(+38) on hit into puddle but b12 isn't a hkd.
Conversions are pretty easy once you can wasp cancel.
Combo thread is updated.
Click to expand...
alright, ill have to practice, i've seen the throw ender a lot though too in the corner.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Reauxbot said:
Im still getting back into the swing of things. She has her cancels and all still. Shes still Mid Tier right?
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Has SQ ever not been in the top 10 conversation? The only thing that's held her back was not having a good reversal/wakeup, and she's got a decent one now.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Invincible Salads said:
so isnt venomous booty cheeks now then?
Click to expand...
It got hit pretty hard by the universal changes lowering meter building and chip, but on top of that they made the bug spray more punishable on block and less advantageous on hit. I guess I can understand making it more punishable, but only being +12 on hit means you only have a guaranteed d4 (or b1 in the corner) follow up on your vortex, f1 can be backdashed, and f2 can be armored or backdashed. This is all if your follow up is frame perfect. It's probably still playable, maybe even slightly better than brood mother, but I definitely wouldn't call the variation good.

This is all theoretical for me, however, because I'm a PC Venom main.
 
Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Second Saint said:
It got hit pretty hard by the universal changes lowering meter building and chip, but on top of that they made the bug spray more punishable on block and less advantageous on hit. I guess I can understand making it more punishable, but only being +12 on hit means you only have a guaranteed d4 (or b1 in the corner) follow up on your vortex, f1 can be backdashed, and f2 can be armored or backdashed. This is all if your follow up is frame perfect. It's probably still playable, maybe even slightly better than brood mother, but I definitely wouldn't call the variation good.

This is all theoretical for me, however, because I'm a PC Venom main.
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lol, that doesnt make sense for venomous at all really. I swear nrs doesnt know how to properly balance stuff in this game. SQ was and still is her best variation, yet venomous was the one that had to get hit?....derp
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Invincible Salads said:
lol, that doesnt make sense for venomous at all really. I swear nrs doesnt know how to properly balance stuff in this game. SQ was and still is her best variation, yet venomous was the one that had to get hit?....derp
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Yeah, it's kind of like if Johnny or Cassie had their guaranteed options from the vortex take away, but also couldn't spend meter to extend the combo. That is how a Venomous do. It used to be semi justified because you could always follow up the 18% combo with 14% chip and make most of the bar back, which was still punishable even if it was a gimmick. That's not really the case anymore since the chip and the meterbuild got nerfed, not to mention you don't even get the f1 follow up guaranteed anymore. So now I guess it's like take a gamble to take a big gamble on punishable chip damage.

I seriously never saw bug spray's hit advantage getting nerfed coming. Doesn't make any sense.
 
Reauxbot

Reauxbot

You think you bad? You aint bad.
Second Saint said:
Has SQ ever not been in the top 10 conversation? The only thing that's held her back was not having a good reversal/wakeup, and she's got a decent one now.
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My friends and other people I play with casually dont consider her that good.
Honestly Ive never thought she was either. Ive fought more Kotal Kahns than I fight Dvorahs, so not seeing her much had to have meant something.
Also noone plays Kano either.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Reauxbot said:
My friends and other people I play with casually dont consider her that good.
Honestly Ive never thought she was either. Ive fought more Kotal Kahns than I fight Dvorahs, so not seeing her much had to have meant something.
Also noone plays Kano either.
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Well, I suppose the caveat is that SQ, while really good, is arguably the highest execution character in the game. I think the consensus is that it's either SQ or A-list Johnny, right?

Watch some footage of Honeybee, you'll see what I mean.
 
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Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
i'd definitely say she's top 10, especially now with characters like tanya nerfed to hell and Lao got his hat nerfed. cassie nerfed. Not sure about quan. I'd say she has some of best pressure in the game now up there with JC and Liu kang.
 
Reauxbot

Reauxbot

You think you bad? You aint bad.
Second Saint said:
Well, I suppose the caveat is that SQ, while really good, is arguably the highest execution character in the game. I think the consensus is that it's either SQ or A-list Johnny, right?

Watch some footage of Honeybee, you'll see what I mean.
Click to expand...
What makes her so good though? Her cancels?
Im curious to why shes so good but never used. Hell not many hi level players use her..
I can honestly name honeybee and I only know cause I watch his alien videos.
 
Reauxbot

Reauxbot

You think you bad? You aint bad.
Invincible Salads said:
i'd definitely say she's top 10, especially now with characters like tanya nerfed to hell and Lao got his hat nerfed. cassie nerfed. Not sure about quan. I'd say she has some of best pressure in the game now up there with JC and Liu kang.
Click to expand...
Johnny Cage is top tier? I have been gone too long. What else have i been missing out on?
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Reauxbot said:
Johnny Cage is top tier? I have been gone too long. What else have i been missing out on?
Click to expand...
Well, Johnny isn't necessarily top tier, but his pressure is some of the very best in the game. Maybe he is top tier, but I don't have the matchup knowledge to say anything on that subject.

Here are some Pros for Swarm Queen:
  • Strong pressure due to wasp grenade cancels (f112~wgc is +12 and jails into s2, which is +2)
  • High damage with meter, decent damage meterless
  • Very strong oki with meaty puddle setups leaving her +22 on wakeup if blocked, leading to a combo if not.
  • Incredible footsies with f2 (an overhead) and f1 having insane reach
  • Insane corner carry from EX wasp grenade, which allows you to forward dash or jump over several times before continuing the combo
  • Best X-ray in the game. It's a 5 frame armored dive kick that's plus on block.
  • Her pokes have great reach and no hurt box on d3/4
  • Great run speed
Honestly, the only cons she really had were slow, low damaging armor, her fastest poke being 8 frames, and slow walk speed. They sped up the armor, so now it can actually be used as a wakeup or reversal. Swarm Queen is damn near flawless now. She has the tools to handle just about everything.
 
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