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General/Other - D'Vorah D'Vorah General Discussion Thread

Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
@Laos_boy what's the deal with krawler? Seems the hit advantage changes depending on the first hit of the combo?

It doesn't make sense to me that f11 krawler allows for a followup but something like krawler, run~f2 (krawler hits) and then it doesn't allow for a combo?

And the fact that her bug cancels don't allow for the same combos that SQ despite seemingly having the same cancel data?

edit: scratch that last part, didn't know you can cancel the SQ bug faster.
 
BornThroughAshes

BornThroughAshes

Devil Apes
FrostiBarrel said:
So guys what's the gameplan as D'Vorah when you're forced to break? I mean I basically go for F2 2 4 string and stall for time, but normally having to break= lost round.
and go for throws.

@Vak Phoenix @VAAAAAAAAN @TopTierHarley @HoneyBee

sorry those are only D'Vorah mains I can think of off the top of my head
Click to expand...
Honestly I don't think D'Vorah has it that bad after a breaker. Some options we have are:

f224 as you mentioned
d4 xx puddle
d4 on hit into f11 pressure (great if the opponent is cornered)
raw puddle

Raw puddle is perfectly viable after a breaker since it can't be punished by most of the cast (no stamina to run in).
 
Laos_boy

Laos_boy

Meow Hoes
Phosferrax said:
@Laos_boy what's the deal with krawler? Seems the hit advantage changes depending on the first hit of the combo?

It doesn't make sense to me that f11 krawler allows for a followup but something like krawler, run~f2 (krawler hits) and then it doesn't allow for a combo?

And the fact that her bug cancels don't allow for the same combos that SQ despite seemingly having the same cancel data?

edit: scratch that last part, didn't know you can cancel the SQ bug faster.
Click to expand...
Yeah its weird but heres my finding. I belive it has to do with cancel advantage.

So example.
You can throw out crawler and do f2 BUG RUN CANCEL (krawler) into f44. this hits since you are granted more advantage due to cancel advantage.

Its weird it kind of makes sense
 
Phosferrax

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Laos_boy said:
Yeah its weird but heres my finding. I belive it has to do with cancel advantage.

So example.
You can throw out crawler and do f2 BUG RUN CANCEL (krawler) into f44. this hits since you are granted more advantage due to cancel advantage.

Its weird it kind of makes sense
Click to expand...
Does it work for b1?
 
VAAAAAAAAN

VAAAAAAAAN

Noob
FrostiBarrel said:
So guys what's the gameplan as D'Vorah when you're forced to break? I mean I basically go for F2 2 4 string and stall for time, but normally having to break= lost round.
and go for throws.

@Vak Phoenix @VAAAAAAAAN @TopTierHarley @HoneyBee

sorry those are only D'Vorah mains I can think of off the top of my head
Click to expand...
Avoid corner breaks at all cost because that's basically instadeath. Other than stalling for time there's not a lot to do. She loses so much after breaker you can't really approach safely. Thank god for the new breaker mechanic changes. Hopefully now she won't get mauled after breaker anymore. We won't have to worry about it for much longer when everyone is forced into neutral for a little while.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Something I've been thinking on for a bit now, since I've basically seen nobody else do or talk about this: f34 staggers.

Let's start with the basics, f3, while somewhat slow at 17 frames, is a -2 on block overhead that doesn't have too much recovery and puts you directly next to your opponent. Throw, b1, s1, all your short range moves will hit. F34, while not safe, is only -8 and launches for a full combo.

I find this effective in three ways.
  1. It's another stagger tool to add to plethora that D'vorah already has. While I wouldn't consider staggers in general to be entirely legitimate, by which I mean you can't base your entire strategy on them, I do believe that varying with them keeps things from becoming too predictable, especially for Venomous since it doesn't really have any real pressure options. If you've got to stagger, you can't have too many kinds.
  2. People tend to continue blocking high after an overhead. I can't tell you how many b1's I've landed after f3 because people are waiting for the string to finish. This creates a mixup and conditioning opportunity.
  3. If someone tries to read that I will stagger and attempts to armor, poke out, or backdash, all of their options lose to finishing f34 for pretty significant damage. Venom can get a 29% restand or 34.5% poison stacking combo. BM gets a few different kinds of krawler setups for >25% off the top of my head. Don't know what SQ gets because I'm too much of a scrub for cancels, 29% universal at least. It's kind of like catching people with the 2 of f112 after you've staggered f1, f11 a ton but with a much higher pay off.
There's a whole metagame around f34, and I've come to believe the odds are in D'vorah's favor. So when her staggers get talked about, why is this never really in the conversation? It's not even in the guides. I get that doing anything while negative is a gimmick, but well staggers in general are.

Is there something I'm missing? Is this working so well for me a product of passive players, mostly online play, etc? Let me know what you think.


@TopTierHarley
@VAAAAAAAAN
@Sindelia
@Zoidberg747
@KillaGthug4Life
@Vak Phoenix
@Evil_Riu48
@Take$$$
@GGA pimpimjim
And any other D'vorah's I can't think of right now.
 
TopTierHarley

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
Second Saint said:
Something I've been thinking on for a bit now, since I've basically seen nobody else do or talk about this: f34 staggers.

Let's start with the basics, f3, while somewhat slow at 17 frames, is a -2 on block overhead that doesn't have too much recovery and puts you directly next to your opponent. Throw, b1, s1, all your short range moves will hit. F34, while not safe, is only -8 and launches for a full combo.

I find this effective in three ways.
  1. It's another stagger tool to add to plethora that D'vorah already has. While I wouldn't consider staggers in general to be entirely legitimate, by which I mean you can't base your entire strategy on them, I do believe that varying with them keeps things from becoming too predictable, especially for Venomous since it doesn't really have any real pressure options. If you've got to stagger, you can't have too many kinds.
  2. People tend to continue blocking high after an overhead. I can't tell you how many b1's I've landed after f3 because people are waiting for the string to finish. This creates a mixup and conditioning opportunity.
  3. If someone tries to read that I will stagger and attempts to armor, poke out, or backdash, all of their options lose to finishing f34 for pretty significant damage. Venom can get a 29% restand or 34.5% poison stacking combo. BM gets a few different kinds of krawler setups for >25% off the top of my head. Don't know what SQ gets because I'm too much of a scrub for cancels, 29% universal at least. It's kind of like catching people with the 2 of f112 after you've staggered f1, f11 a ton but with a much higher pay off.
There's a whole metagame around f34, and I've come to believe the odds are in D'vorah's favor. So when her staggers get talked about, why is this never really in the conversation? It's not even in the guides. I get that doing anything while negative is a gimmick, but well staggers in general are.

Is there something I'm missing? Is this working so well for me a product of passive players, mostly online play, etc? Let me know what you think.


@TopTierHarley
@VAAAAAAAAN
@Sindelia
@Zoidberg747
@KillaGthug4Life
@Vak Phoenix
@Evil_Riu48
@Take$$$
@GGA pimpimjim
And any other D'vorah's I can't think of right now.
Click to expand...
Hmm, never thought about using it like that. I mainly used f3 puddle just for gimmicks. Will play around with it more to see how it goes, but this could be really good in BM and Venomous.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
TopTierHarley said:
Hmm, never thought about using it like that. I mainly used f3 puddle just for gimmicks. Will play around with it more to see how it goes, but this could be really good in BM and Venomous.
Click to expand...
Well, once I started using it, my training partner had to re-evaluate his opinion on Venomous D'vorah up close. He thought it wasn't that big a deal, that he could handle it. With the addition of f3 staggers, he started to get scared when I got in close because when things go right, it's not just 18% and a 50/50. It's actual damage.

I tend to go with f34, d1, f34, 112~db4. 29-30% with two more ticks of 2.27. I don't really go for the restand because it puts them out of f2 range, which I don't really feel is all that much better than a knockdown. I'd rather take the extra damage. Really good in the corner since you can get a meterless 33% restand (38% with meter) that puts them back in the corner. Then add the guaranteed 13% chip from f112~ex spray... Incorporating f34 more really opens up your damage potential in Venomous I feel.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
The entire kombat kast they were talking about how they made combos easier for characters. Lao lost his 2 frame links, but no help for brood mother...what the actual fuck?

Let's hope they just neglected to mention it. Super likely right?
 
VAAAAAAAAN

VAAAAAAAAN

Noob
Still hoping for buffed no variation D'Vorah, even though I know there's no chance. Mid ex bug shot that jails would be so good. This won't be necessary if we get a jailing ex bug shot for brood though.
 
Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
With MK XL nearly upon us, I will likely find myself a man without a country soon, so I just wanted to say that it's been fun. I've really enjoyed what contributions I've made to D'vorah, mostly Venomous, and the discussions I've had here. If PC doesn't get the balance patches, I won't be able to lab anything anymore, and I can't justify going out and giving WB more money for a game I pre-ordered after they screwed me over.

I guess that means this is it for me, but I guarantee you'll see me again in the Harley forums when Injustice 2 drops.

Also, somebody check if the new, slower b3 can still be jailed into from Venom/BM's EX puddle, without being low profiled since it's high now. Plus frames into more plus frames is always good, right?
 
TopTierHarley

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
Second Saint said:
With MK XL nearly upon us, I will likely find myself a man without a country soon, so I just wanted to say that it's been fun. I've really enjoyed what contributions I've made to D'vorah, mostly Venomous, and the discussions I've had here. If PC doesn't get the balance patches, I won't be able to lab anything anymore, and I can't justify going out and giving WB more money for a game I pre-ordered after they screwed me over.

I guess that means this is it for me, but I guarantee you'll see me again in the Harley forums when Injustice 2 drops.

Also, somebody check if the new, slower b3 can still be jailed into from Venom/BM's EX puddle, without being low profiled since it's high now. Plus frames into more plus frames is always good, right?
Click to expand...
You will be missed :( I'll see you in the Harley forums.
Yes, it does jail even with it being a high, you can even jail into s2 after the b3 since it's +11
 
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BMartin

BMartin

Has no idea
Guys, has it always been possible to convert off of a jump in kick in the corner?? Was just fooling around with the new online simulated training mode and discovered this
 
Altsa

Altsa

♦
Right now Krawler has ~4 second cooldown after it hits the opponent.
You can do, for example, f11,krawler,rc,212,puddle,f112,krawler and I'm pretty sure it wasn't possible pre-patch. Didn't try BM in the beta.
 
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Second Saint

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
I said I was done. I meant it, (I really did) but I had an idea, and it works. Maybe it's already known, but I'm still going to write it down here just in case.

In Brood Mother and Venomous, the EX puddle is truly, ridiculously plus. +47 according to the in game frame data. If you end a combo with b12, then meaty EX puddle, you can jail s2 or f1 from a full screen run in. I haven't gotten it to jail if they tech roll yet, but they do still have to block it. I haven't spent a lot of time on this, so it may be possible. If they delay wakeup, free pressure.

If you're near the corner and use this setup, you should be able to jail b3, f2, or b1.

This seems best for Venomous since you should usually have meter and corner carry is really important. I feel like BM needs the meter for other things, but hey, it's another tool. And who doesn't love jailing from full screen run ins anyways?

That was going to be my whole post, but then I realized that it might not work in XL. Can you guys test this out, make sure I'm not entirely wrong.
 
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