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General/Other - D'Vorah D'Vorah General Discussion Thread

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Everyone knows D'vorah can still break slow 2 hit armor moves right? Venomous and BM can do it with EX puddle still from 212 setups, and of course, BM can break it by committing to 11 instead of a hard to blockable from most of her usual krawler setups. Probably most useful against Possessed Kenshi, especially when that bug where a forward advancing strings makes wakeups miss is fixed.

This is common knowledge, right?
 

Wazminator

twitch.tv/Wazminator
Everyone knows D'vorah can still break slow 2 hit armor moves right? Venomous and BM can do it with EX puddle still from 212 setups, and of course, BM can break it by committing to 11 instead of a hard to blockable from most of her usual krawler setups. Probably most useful against Possessed Kenshi, especially when that bug where a forward advancing strings makes wakeups miss is fixed.

This is common knowledge, right?
EX Puddle 212 is soo good! Don't know if it's really worth it to spend the meter all the time but definitely good to have in mind for occasions.

How familiar are people with f112 ex puddle? I feel like it's not necessarily known by everybody
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
EX Puddle 212 is soo good! Don't know if it's really worth it to spend the meter all the time but definitely good to have in mind for occasions.

How familiar are people with f112 ex puddle? I feel like it's not necessarily known by everybody
Specifically, what about it? I know it's more plus with much less recovery, but does that get you anything special or shut down any other escape options? A long time ago I experimented with what armors could be broken from it, which wasn't many. Though maybe the reduced pushback is a factor.

Guess, I'll take another look at it some time.
 

Wazminator

twitch.tv/Wazminator
Specifically, what about it? I know it's more plus with much less recovery, but does that get you anything special or shut down any other escape options? A long time ago I experimented with what armors could be broken from it, which wasn't many. Though maybe the reduced pushback is a factor.

Guess, I'll take another look at it some time.
F112 EX Puddle on block against most chars limits basically all their options to either jump back or jump over which both can be anti aired and combod from anddd if they decide to armour you're usually safe and end up being +27 if they just block, i'll go in to a little more detail soon
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
Dumping a few BM vids I had saved that i didnt post before:

Midscreen setup that puts the bug backwards. If they dont techroll you get a super dirty HTB with a jump in, so you can link pretty much any combo starter to it giving you like 50%+ for 1 bar if it lands. Input for Krawler needs to be backwards otherwise nothing happens.

This is one of the few ways midscreen i found that gets them to block a meaty bug on techroll. When the common answer is to techroll and run away this surprises some people.

Midscreen HTB for a techroll. The bug doesnt hit meaty so they can escape it but its very ambiguous which way to block first if they decide to hold it.
 

Gemini

LoFi
Dumping a few BM vids I had saved that i didnt post before:

Midscreen setup that puts the bug backwards. If they dont techroll you get a super dirty HTB with a jump in, so you can link pretty much any combo starter to it giving you like 50%+ for 1 bar if it lands. Input for Krawler needs to be backwards otherwise nothing happens.

This is one of the few ways midscreen i found that gets them to block a meaty bug on techroll. When the common answer is to techroll and run away this surprises some people.

Midscreen HTB for a techroll. The bug doesnt hit meaty so they can escape it but its very ambiguous which way to block first if they decide to hold it.
Awesome stuff.
 

Altsa

I have Brood Mother frame data questions:

How much + is D'vorah after f112~Bug Blast cancel? (At least +2 but when it comes to cancels, my execution is ass)

And how tight link is the f11~Bug Blast cancel into 212(on hit)?
 

Gemini

LoFi
I have Brood Mother frame data questions:

How much + is D'vorah after f112~Bug Blast cancel? (At least +2 but when it comes to cancels, my execution is ass)

And how tight link is the f11~Bug Blast cancel into 212(on hit)?
I'm not sure how plus she is after a f112 BB cancel. But linking f11~Bug Blast into 212 isn't too hard. The 112 BB cancel on block seems harder. Also f12 BB into 11 back 2 is also a hard link.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Do we have any weird tech with u3 cancels? It's something I've never explored. Should I go looking for corpse hops and what not with it, or do we already have that somewhere?
 
I have Brood Mother frame data questions:

How much + is D'vorah after f112~Bug Blast cancel? (At least +2 but when it comes to cancels, my execution is ass)

And how tight link is the f11~Bug Blast cancel into 212(on hit)?
I think I got up to +6 off F112 cancel on block, possibly more with perfect execution.

F11 cancel to 212 feels like a two frame link, so ~+13 maybe.

I just picked up this variation so don't take my word for it.
 

Wazminator

twitch.tv/Wazminator
Do we have any weird tech with u3 cancels? It's something I've never explored. Should I go looking for corpse hops and what not with it, or do we already have that somewhere?
There is multiple corpse hops but honestly never use any of them in game, I'll try get a vid up tomorrow about them or something.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Alright, this has been in the back of my head for awhile now. I don't like buff threads because they're ultimately useless, but I still have these ideas of what I'd do to overhaul Venomous. So...here's how I'd make her better and possibly even less frustrating to play against.
  • Spray can be meterburned into a launching (similar to 11b2) burst that is -5 on block.
  • Spray can no longer be varied
  • Only one spray per combo
This would drastically increase her comboability, greatly improving her footsies in the process. It would allow her to cash out of the vortex for actual damage. The mind game behind spray would change but allow for actual safety and even make punishing it more certain for the opponent if you don't manage your meter well, similar to hell sparks. She'd need meter for everything, but up close, she can build that meter quite well since every spray would be fully extended. If you can get away with even one for fear of the meterburn burst, that's nearly half a bar of meter. It would make her armor breaking actually a massive threat since it would be for a full combo. She would dominate the counter poke meta.

In short, it would enhance every single strength she has to the point where a corresponding damage nerf may be required. I would suggest reducing the rate of damage from bonus applications of poison stacks from .35 to .25. Simply increasing scaling on spray can be gotten around by the way venom functions.

And even with all this, I still can't see her being top tier because she does not have the anti-zoning/full screen presence to eliminate her bad matchups. She's got weaknesses and they are significant. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to say the same of her strengths.

So yeah, that right there is probably why I shouldn't balance games, right? Total overkill and monster creating?
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
Any chance for a quick overview on how to play Venomous?
  • Lots of conditioning to block low with d4 and b1~spray so that you can land f34 combos.
  • Stagger f112, 112/3, 21,etc
  • Use strike/throw mixups to land her high damaging starters (11b2, 212, f44). Her throws do extra damage and are +10 on hit, enough time to dashin a d block a wakeup or pressure.
  • It's a gimmick, but you can make people guess between ending a string in puddle or spray. If they know how to punish either, stop.
  • You can make Bug Spray hard to punish by varying the timing.
  • Armor when necessary and after slight negative frames.
  • X-ray is godlike.
  • Prioritize the corner. You're deadliest there.
  • Combos: f34,d1,f34, 112~db4. 212~db1, d1, rc 112~ovi. 11b2, d1, rc 112~db4. F44, f34, d1, rc 112~db4
  • Corner combos: f34, d1, f34, 112~df1. 212/11b2/f44, d3x2,d1x4, 112~db4 (these last ones are optimal but difficult. Find the number of pokes that works for you.)
  • She gets zoned pretty hard. Waddle in until you see the opening to run.