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M2Dave

Zoning Master
Trust me, fight a noob wh isn't a scrub and he would give your cage major problems.
Once Cage gets close, Noob will have to block 15 f+3s before he can escape. Noob's d+3 is solid, but he has no armor. Escaping f+3 spam is difficult without armor. If you block f+3 crouching, Cage could be at 0 or +9. There are no visual cues. If you block f+3 standing, good Cage players will hit-confirm f+3,3 into EX forceball. One wrong guess means that you either get punched in the nuts or Cage is at huge block advantage again.
 

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
Cage is just flavor of the month. If you can't take my opinions seriously at least listen to fucking Maxter, some of these opinions are ridiculous.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Once Cage gets close, Noob will have to block 15 f+3s before he can escape. Noob's d+3 is solid, but he has no armor. Escaping f+3 spam is difficult without armor. If you block f+3 crouching, Cage could be at 0 or +9. There are no visual cues. If you block f+3 standing, good Cage players will hit-confirm f+3,3 into EX forceball. One wrong guess means that you either get punched in the nuts or Cage is at huge block advantage again.
...So why stand? I don't understand. F3 isn't going to be visually confirmed, so I'm not really worried about that...a random f3 leads to nothing, and we're just playing the same game again.

Why are players all of a sudden afraid to poke out? What happened between a few months ago and MLG to make everyone lose their minds? It never stopped working.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
You might be underrating yours.
I wish I was. Master D. knows Freddy's zoning in and out. We go even when he picks Cage. I think the match up is at best 5:5:4:5 in Freddy's favor. Kenshi is a lot more difficult to approach and has a BS armor move.
 
Once Cage gets close, Noob will have to block 15 f+3s before he can escape. Noob's d+3 is solid, but he has no armor. Escaping f+3 spam is difficult without armor. If you block f+3 crouching, Cage could be at 0 or +9. There are no visual cues. If you block f+3 standing, good Cage players will hit-confirm f+3,3 into EX forceball. One wrong guess means that you either get punched in the nuts or Cage is at huge block advantage again.
True, when I fight my bros cage with noob I have a lot of issues up close because of noob lack of armor. I can still zone him wel and it is tough for him to get in, once cage in then noob in a lot of trouble.
 

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
True, when I fight my bros cage with noob I have a lot of issues up close because of noob lack of armor. I can still zone him wel and it is tough for him to get in, once cage in then noob in a lot of trouble.
noob's d3 is amazing though, xx into up shadow. Use it like Kenshis push when Cage actually closes space.
 

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
Cage has weaknesses yes, but are very hard to exploit when fighting a high lvl cage like curbo, Maxter, foxy, etc.
It's just more of an experience thing, luckily you have the time and a good opponent to grind it out with. You have to spend the time to work dealing with cage into your natural game.
 
It's just more of an experience thing, luckily you have the time and a good opponent to grind it out with. You have to spend the time to work dealing with cage into your natural game.
Yeah it is good have a skiled traning partner and it does take time to learn how to deal with cage.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
...So why stand? I don't understand. F3 isn't going to be visually confirmed, so I'm not really worried about that...a random f3 leads to nothing, and we're just playing the same game again.

Why are players all of a sudden afraid to poke out? What happened between a few months ago and MLG to make everyone lose their minds? It never stopped working.
A random f+3 can lead to +9 when you are block crouching. And if you are blocking standing, how do you know whether the Cage player will do f+3 or f+3,3? You cannot react to all of these poke variations. If you try to poke out, you are risking f+3,3 which can be hit-confirmed into the nutpunch. So your little poke does 1% of damage while f+3,3 xx nutpunch leads to 20% of damage and more pressure. How is that not an overwhelming risk/reward ratio in favor of Cage?

Some of you have to fight Curbo, Dizzy, Maxter, etc. to experience this BS first hand.
 

NKZero

Warrior
Sao87 I 100% agree with you. This flavour of the month thing causes people to overrate a character and whatnot. It is also a good thing because like we did with Lao, Cyrax, Kabal etc. we will figure out Cage entirely and find ways of beating him. So it is a blessing in disguise.
 

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
A random f+3 can lead to +9 when you are block crouching. And if you are blocking standing, how do you know whether the Cage player will do f+3 or f+3,3? You cannot react to all of these poke variations. If you try to poke out, you are risking f+3,3 which can be hit-confirmed into the nutpunch. So your little poke does 1% of damage while f+3,3 xx nutpunch leads to 20% of damage and more pressure. How is that not an overwhelming risk/reward ratio in favor of Cage?

Some of you have to fight Curbo, Dizzy, Maxter, etc. to experience this BS first hand.
ITS NOT RANDOM! It happens when you are crouch blocking and holding up to escape pressure. Just poke to break pressure apart..
 
A random f+3 can lead to +9 when you are block crouching. And if you are blocking standing, how do you know whether the Cage player will do f+3 or f+3,3? You cannot react to all of these poke variations. If you try to poke out, you are risking f+3,3 which can be hit-confirmed into the nutpunch. So your little poke does 1% of damage while f+3,3 xx nutpunch leads to 20% of damage and more pressure. How is that not an overwhelming risk/reward ratio in favor of Cage?

Some of you have to fight Curbo, Dizzy, Maxter, etc. to experience this BS first hand.
If you're standing all day, you're susceptible to additional variations of Cage's Frame Traps (ie: 11, 11f1, ex-forceball); how is that favorable to being able to break up pressure with a 6-frame counter-poke while crouching?

Your quickest pokes in the game are crouching: d1 and d3

You need to look at it as if you are breaking up pressure and attempting to create an opportunity to escape.

In regards to Freddy, his d1 is 6 frames, can be canceled into Nightmare Stance and again canceled into Teleport Away.

Now that you've created some space, use it.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
A random f+3 can lead to +9 when you are block crouching. And if you are blocking standing, how do you know whether the Cage player will do f+3 or f+3,3? You cannot react to all of these poke variations. If you try to poke out, you are risking f+3,3 which can be hit-confirmed into the nutpunch. So your little poke does 1% of damage while f+3,3 xx nutpunch leads to 20% of damage and more pressure. How is that not an overwhelming risk/reward ratio in favor of Cage?

Some of you have to fight Curbo, Dizzy, Maxter, etc. to experience this BS first hand.
I have, actually. We've had a very good Cage player at home almost since release, and a ton of this stuff that people are complaining about isn't really new. The thread Sao linked you to about JC's pressure game was written months ago, before this whole crisis even started. My intention isn't to come and say how everybody's wrong, but moreso open up avenues to thinking clearly and beyond salt involving losing one set in a tournament/casuals.
 

G4S Claude VonStroke

@MK_ClaudeVS on twitter
This tier list is terrible lol idk where he got that list from and 7 bad matchups for cage? Explain please. I thought cage only had like 3 bad matchups.
What is terrible about it? I would say for the most part a lot of people would agree with it. This is not just some bullshit i made up, it's from going to VSM, talking with the CD bros, personal experience, etc. Not that EVERY character is in the right place but i think it's close.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
It's not a rush down game, the mechanics just heavily reward offense and punish defense.
Not sure if you meant this to be funny, but it is. No it's not a rushdown game, it just rewards rushdown! :coffee:
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
What is terrible about it? I would say for the most part a lot of people would agree with it. This is not just some bullshit i made up, it's from going to VSM, talking with the CD bros, personal experience, etc. Not that EVERY character is in the right place but i think it's close.
CD Jr. thinks Cage is top ten. He told me so at MLG. He also said that you need strong zoning vs Cage or you cannot beat him.
 
What is terrible about it? I would say for the most part a lot of people would agree with it. This is not just some bullshit i made up, it's from going to VSM, talking with the CD bros, personal experience, etc. Not that EVERY character is in the right place but i think it's close.
cyber sub being over scorp and sub is already a joke lol, and kitana definitely not over jax. But this is why some think tier list aren't really needed because they're too opinionated and they change all the time, the player playing the character matters more than a list tbh.
 

IKizzLE

BloodHound
Curbolicious/foxy grandap = kenshi 5.5-4.5 over cage

All other cages I've played = kenshi 6.5-3.5

Curbo and foxy are absolutely amazing in this MU

And THIS is exactly why tier lists are dumb. People's tier lists and placements are all based around their matchup experience and how well the matchup is played. Foxy and curbo being an even matchup against kenshi is a testament on how people need to get better at this game.

m2dave, I've played Maxter's cage and dizzy's cage. I was even able to beat maxter's cage with my Rain. People just don't know how to fight cage.

Cage is the flavor of the month.