Complaining about deadshot? I have a ? for you.

[Roy Arkon]

They weren't in MKX. I figured it was the same in I2. I haven't even tried it to be honest. Other than that I'm just giving my opinion so I literally can't be wrong.

Actually projectiles in MKX could be stopped with Block Breakers as they can stop any kind of move that is blocked, unlike regular Breakers which can only be done against contact moves on hit (basically any move that isn't a projectile from up close).

But aside from that, people can say very similar things about Rushdown as well. When you you have to make the read on which way you should block (high or low) to avoid 50/50's and you can't get make the right read any time, or that it forces you to play in a a style that is too aggressive for you, or that it can be at times too much of a high risk, all of these things can be said on Rushdown. But Rushdown is legit because it improves your reactions from close range, your execution on combos, and also your ability to make reads for punishes, counter poking, throw teching etc;, among other stuff. And on the same token, Zoning can improve your space control ability, as well as your reads, punishes and reactions against teleports, long range attacks and projectiles too.

And like I said earlier, spamming can be relate to normals and strings too, not just projectiles. And you say you can't be wrong here, but no offense, this is not subjective here, these a re facts about fighting games in general. Again, no disrespect.

I love how people wine about zoning in this game and don't mb roll.

There you go, here is a way to get around Zoning in this game. People need to check things out before they complain about them.

YOU NEED TO CHECK OUT YOUR SHIT BEFORE TAKING SHIT!

 

[Temetias]

Every single competitive videogame I've played has had a playstyle that "requires less and rewards more". Shotgun camping in fps games, aggro decks in tcg's, zoners in fighters, and so on and so on. Every single of these gamestyles is needed for game balance but casuals will always hate it. For them it feels like the time they've put training for example combos has gone to waste when they lose to a guy who just goes df1 for the whole match.

Personally I do enjoy playing zoners sometimes. I just don't like zoners that only spam one projectile the whole match. There needs to be some more depth to it. Deadshot how he is right now looks like that "one move zoner". Fate on the other hand seems very interesting.

I don't have the game yet so I can't state any proper opinions but what I saw from the stream, deadshot's straight shot recovery seems a bit silly. Getting in gets so slow and MB moves have much pushback to reset 10 seconds worth of distance. Mb roll also seemed risky since the shot has no recovery. I'm curious to try play against it myself to have a better idea how strong it really is.

 

[ABACABB]

Some catwoman player was close to beating him , it shows its possible . He catched players not blocking high with this one string that sent them back fullscreen. Now when ppl just start to block it it will not be that easy . It looks op cuz its one of best players playing vs scrubs that dont know what to do lol

 

[DubiousShenron]

If these people think deadshot zoning is bad, wait til they play my Fate.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Zoning is harder than rushdown imo. If I was playing someone who was better than me I'd feel more comfortable using 50/50s and advancing mids than trying to win off of 8% projectiles and whatnot. It's way more challenging to keep someone out the entire game than it is to stay in imo. Zoning needs to be good, rushdown also needs to be good. It looks like they both are so far, so cool.

 

[Vslayer]

Except that this is not FPS. Zoning in fighting games isn't about being afraid of getting hit, it's about controlling the space and keep your opponent at bay. And you can use combos to keep the opponent away from you. At MKX, for example, I use Reptile and every time I catch somebody with a Forceball and he's close enough to me, I can full combo him and end it with Acid Spit to keep him away while still dealing damage to him, not to mention that Reptile in MKX can stop the Forceballs at will, basically creating a pressure, but instead of close-range pressure, it's a projectile pressure, while also controlling the space too.

I can't play IJ2 at the moment since I'm in the EU region and I will get my copy only this Friday, but my point for all fighting games, is that fighting games isn't just about getting close to the opponent and do combos and pressure up close, it's also about controlling the space, and also do pressure from full screen while you can. It's not like spamming the same projectile over and over again like a moron, it's about being strategic with your projectiles. And yes, I can do some close range combos and I do have some close-to-mid-range setups of my own, that's why I like Reptile (as he can Zone and Rushdown), but I'm more comfortable with Zoning then the Rushdown and I will go for it every time I can. It's not me being less skillful, it's that I go for the format that I want to go, and I change when I have too.

And as for the people who complain about Deadshot in IJ2: This type of bitching was always in fighting games, even in games that are more Rushdown based, so it's nothing new. But with that being said, the game is ONLY LESS THEN 24 HOURS AFTER IT'S LAUNCH, and you already complain???? If you can't deal with legit strategic Zoning, go to the lab and try to find ways to work around it, just like you do on combos. Even if the opponent does spam you with projectiles (and BTW, players can spam you with normals too, I faced a rookie player once who started to spam overheads until I knocked him off), you can find ways to deal with the spamming as well.

Strategic fighting can be done in any range, and spamming can be done in range too. Just find a way to work around it.

I understand your point of view, I did have a few good zoning matchups in MKX and I really did like timing myself to go around their projectiles, it's fun because it becomes about who has the best strategy as opposed to spamming which involves doing not much at all. what I didn't mention - and I should have - is that there is a clear difference between spaming and zoning and spamming is what I was talking about (I chose the wrong words that's my bad). Spammers will pick up full auto jacqui and use the same gun shot to get easy wins while zoners have a strategy like you explained, and obviously anyone would get frustrated at a spammer because it's hella annoying.

To me, fighting games are about hand-to-hand combat and to you it might be different which is completely fine. I wouldn't play a slower or zoning type of character because I like in-your-face mixup/vortex characters and I'm guessing it's the same for you with the type of characters you play.

 

[TamedLizard]

Day 1 casuals - "Nerf zoning"

Zoning academy -

 

[ismael4790]

Didn't expect deadshot to be able to launch from his overhead in the corner. Pretty surprised about that.

I'm convinced Deadshot will be overnerfed, and people losing to him will continue doing it.

 

[Roy Arkon]

I understand your point of view, I did have a few good zoning matchups in MKX and I really did like timing myself to go around their projectiles, it's fun because it becomes about who has the best strategy as opposed to spamming which involves doing not much at all. what I didn't mention - and I should have - is that there is a clear difference between spaming and zoning and spamming is what I was talking about (I chose the wrong words that's my bad). Spammers will pick up full auto jacqui and use the same gun shot to get easy wins while zoners have a strategy like you explained, and obviously anyone would get frustrated at a spammer because it's hella annoying.

To me, fighting games are about hand-to-hand combat and to you it might be different which is completely fine. I wouldn't play a slower or zoning type of character because I like in-your-face mixup/vortex characters and I'm guessing it's the same for you with the type of characters you play.

Oh so that's what you meant. You're indeed right on that one, Zoning and spamming are 2 different things, and spamming can be done with any move (like normals and strings, and Rushdown specials) and not just projectiles. And spamming is indeed wrong in any regard.

And yes everyone can play their favorite type of character. I play versatile characters with more tendencies to Zoning and you like to play Rushdown and Mixup characters, everyone is happy

 

[chr1sam]

I can't really say how good deadshot is cause I've only played against him using whats probably the worst character in the game (swamp thing).

 

[Evil Canadian]

So has everyone managed to test all options against deadshot in the hours the game has been released before coming to the conclusion that his zoning is broken or scrubby?

Yes I have tested all options!

the outlook is bleak people !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DubiousShenron]

If they allow meter to be built while blocking. Deadshot will be in the right place. He shouldn't be building meter to keep you out the entire time with enough to mb rifle you away from midscreen while you build no meter. If the character trying to get in was building meter at the same time I say it's okay.

Meterbuild on block needs to be a thing nrs. It rewards patience, defense and respect for your opponent. Let's not forget how everything in mkx discouraged you from blocking or respecting anything. Paulo don't fuck this up

 

[thlityoursloat]

Judgement should be reserved until most players get a good feel for MB roll, currently I doubt many people remember it exists throughout the course of the match.

 

[ABACABB]

If they allow meter to be built while blocking. Deadshot will be in the right place. He shouldn't be building meter to keep you out the entire time with enough to mb rifle you away from midscreen while you build no meter. If the character trying to get in was building meter at the same time I say it's okay.

Meterbuild on block needs to be a thing nrs. It rewards patience, defense and respect for your opponent. Let's not forget how everything in mkx discouraged you from blocking or respecting anything. Paulo don't fuck this up

yeah I never understood it too , player should be rewarded for having good defense .

 

[Rathalos]

For like a real real answer I never really cared for NRS zoning, with the sole exception of Cybernetic Kano.

The game engine/system or w/e just doesn't feel like it was designed to really work well with the concept, and a lot of the time it just comes off as some really boring loony tunes shit.
Especially zoner vs zoner fights.

Fireballs don't clash so you hit each other and both fall over and get back up and do the same thing again, then try and mix it up to mess with the opponents timing, but he ends up doing the same and you both end up knocked down again looking dumb as hell.

Never found it fun to do, and it has always looked dumb as hell to watch.

Cyber Kano was the shit though.

 

[Juggs]

For like a real real answer I never really cared for NRS zoning, with the sole exception of Cybernetic Kano.

The game engine/system or w/e just doesn't feel like it was designed to really work well with the concept, and a lot of the time it just comes off as some really boring loony tunes shit.
Especially zoner vs zoner fights.

Fireballs don't clash so you hit each other and both fall over and get back up and do the same thing again, then try and mix it up to mess with the opponents timing, but he ends up doing the same and you both end up knocked down again looking dumb as hell.

Never found it fun to do, and it has always looked dumb as hell to watch.

Cyber Kano was the shit though.

At least in zoning wars in NRS games people are actually taking damage. Instead of literally "drawing" every time you throw a projectile against a character that also has one.

 

[M.D.]

In injustice 1 you could dash between shots, here you have to take baby steps while getting pushed back by the bounce projectile.

Using MB roll would mean actually having a bar, which you don't as the round begins with Deadshot making instant 3 bars of meter from WHIFFING projectiles, and then destroying you with 3x10% chip from the rifle.

Once you get a bar, you mb roll the shot which has no recovery so you actually get comboed the instant you end your mb roll (people tried it in the sonic fox video above and got instantly blown up for it).

Having to play Bane against this character is something that I consider doing alongside getting torn apart by dingos.





However, it's still more enjoyable than any GRANDMASTER MATCHUP SO THANK GOD FOR THAT.

 

[ABACABB]

In injustice 1 you could dash between shots, here you have to take baby steps while getting pushed back by the bounce projectile.

Using MB roll would mean actually having a bar, which you don't as the round begins with Deadshot making instant 3 bars of meter from WHIFFING projectiles, and then destroying you with 3x10% chip from the rifle.

Once you get a bar, you mb roll the shot which has no recovery so you actually get comboed the instant you end your mb roll (people tried it in the sonic fox video above and got instantly blown up for it).

Having to play Bane against this character is something that I consider doing alongside getting torn apart by dingos.





However, it's still more enjoyable than any GRANDMASTER MATCHUP SO THANK GOD FOR THAT.

Hey man dont worry grandmaster is coming as dlc

 

[MadPropz101]

How come nobody is answering my question?

None of that stuff is ok, but the biggest reason why a lot of people don't like zoning in particular is because it takes no execution and is just less interesting to watch.
And also cause most of them don't know how to deal with it.

 

[Rathalos]

I haven't had enough experience to say one way or another if Deadshot should be nerfed.

But from just watching Aris and Floes streams, I think you are right to be afraid of the mob of casuals.
They are not going to put up with some of the shit in this game.

The pessimist in me would even go as far as to say the casuals are going to jump ship sooner then later, and the online is going to just be the hardcore left, even faster then with MKX junk netcode.

Even with MB roll, casuals aint getting in on Deadshot.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

M.D. found a new victim

 

[Tony at Home]

Kneel before Grodd

 

[Gooberking]

After I put a few hundred hours into IJ2 I'm sure I will achieve success in being a very average player. My ability to understand what happens with zoning at a competitive level is fairly inhibited by that not being good issue. I wouldn't want to belittle the expertise that may take to create a solid zoning defense that can deal with a pro level rush down game. I just know how it seems to work when you aren't a pro.

The thing with zoning is the massive skill gap between the skill it takes to create a zoning game, and the skill it takes to defend against one. A player that has a kindergarten level of knowledge can successfully harass someone that has more investment in the game. Someone that knows the basic buttons, has some OK BnB's, can do some simple conversions, and has a good time investment in the game can get pinned down by someone that literally only knows one move. I suspect the lop sided nature of it levels off the higher you go up the skill tree to the point that it's reasonably fair at high level (however many players that is)

There is something uniquely deflating and helpless feeling about getting pinned down by aggressive zoning and not feeling like you are getting to play, or like you have to claw your way uphill over and over just to get short moments of fighting in a fighting game. The needs to get through zoning exercises very different mental muscles than just strait brawling. It's a thought process I personally don't find enjoyable or rewarding in the slightest. To me nothing in fighting games is so unsatisfying than beating a zoner. And as a stream monster, it's tragically dull. It's no wonder my favorite fighters have been ones without any projectiles at all. Most of that is personal preference, but it's probably common enough to be to be feeding a lot of people's frustration.

Unlike getting mixed in MKX you don't have the same kind of counter options. If you are getting mixed you can mix back with most everyone if you can just get a turn. If you are getting zoned, you have die, get flustered, and then go get another character. Being overwhelmed lasts longer, and your options to counter aren't attractive if you say, don't want to fight zoning with zoning.

IJ has a lot of zoning options, so I don't know that there is really much you can do to run from it in this situation/game outside of wait two weeks and play Tekken.

 

[BartenderJeeves]

Only thing I find absurd about Deadshot is the amount of meter he builds up using his single straight shot. Only thing that should get nerfed is the recovery of that thing or to not allow him to get so much meter by just repeatedly using that move over & over.

I don't know though, the game's only been out for less than a day.

 

[GAV]

After I put a few hundred hours into IJ2 I'm sure I will achieve success in being a very average player. My ability to understand what happens with zoning at a competitive level is fairly inhibited by that not being good issue. I wouldn't want to belittle the expertise that may take to create a solid zoning defense that can deal with a pro level rush down game. I just know how it seems to work when you aren't a pro.

The thing with zoning is the massive skill gap between the skill it takes to create a zoning game, and the skill it takes to defend against one. A player that has a kindergarten level of knowledge can successfully harass someone that has more investment in the game. Someone that knows the basic buttons, has some OK BnB's, can do some simple conversions, and has a good time investment in the game can get pinned down by someone that literally only knows one move. I suspect the lop sided nature of it levels off the higher you go up the skill tree to the point that it's reasonably fair at high level (however many players that is)

There is something uniquely deflating and helpless feeling about getting pinned down by aggressive zoning and not feeling like you are getting to play, or like you have to claw your way uphill over and over just to get short moments of fighting in a fighting game. The needs to get through zoning exercises very different mental muscles than just strait brawling. It's a thought process I personally don't find enjoyable or rewarding in the slightest. To me nothing in fighting games is so unsatisfying than beating a zoner. And as a stream monster, it's tragically dull. It's no wonder my favorite fighters have been ones without any projectiles at all. Most of that is personal preference, but it's probably common enough to be to be feeding a lot of people's frustration.

Unlike getting mixed in MKX you don't have the same kind of counter options. If you are getting mixed you can mix back with most everyone if you can just get a turn. If you are getting zoned, you have die, get flustered, and then go get another character. Being overwhelmed lasts longer, and your options to counter aren't attractive if you say, don't want to fight zoning with zoning.

IJ has a lot of zoning options, so I don't know that there is really much you can do to run from it in this situation/game outside of wait two weeks and play Tekken.

You and I are similarly wired, so I have a suggestion for you to get some much needed insight in how zoners operate. In order to beat good zoning without zoning yourself, it helps to understand what zoners look for and what they look to do. Likewise, it helps pure zoners in zoning to talk to someone with your mindset. So, do not put zoners off - rather embrace them as friends and rivals and try to engage them in meaningful discussion. Start simple with a compliment and a question...