I personally think Cyber vs HW Cassie is 6-4 Kano. I'll counter pick with Cyber Kano against Cassie in tournament as you saw lol. His zoning is actually legit in this MU, as is his AAs, his space control, and his normals work very well after you can handle B1. Brawler might be even worse, near a 7-3. Brawler just has a very rough time against Cyber.
Holy shit. I actually agree with some of this.
I mean, I don't think Kano can keep Cassie out forever with knives. It slows the pace of the match down for sure, but Kano is going to walk himself to the corner eventually and/or have to attack up close at some point in the match and Cassie can win there since she plays that game very well. And of course she has her vortex, so she's a lot scarier on the offence when she does land the combo she needs.Uh bro it definitely is not lol. It's half Kano zoning and Cassie trying to get in, maybe 30% neutral then 20% close up. There's no "until" Cassie gets her turn, it's if she gets her turn. Or do you want to go back through our footage?But really though, how come you suddenly feel different about the matchup?
Risk/Reward is almost always in Cyber's favor for this MU though. With Cassie all you can really do is walk through knives or IAshots in return. The shots will get you knocked down while I throw more knives at distance and create more space, but you can at least trade and not get mindlessly zoned out. Walking in you'll eventually have to commit to something, where Kano has all options, most on reaction. Close enough to B1? Nope counter measures ready. Wanna jump? Nope eat this AA full combo conversion. Walk a little more? Nope eat this unexpected Run towards you grab that ends in me walking backwards. Got inside? Watch this EX Upball on block create the ideal spacing to counter your next move. Once she get start applying pressure and mixups she can get into a groove, but that shouldn't be happening too much in this MU.
Muahahahaha
I didn't say he would, that's a given, but she has to hold them a lot more than most other characters. Kano won't eventually walk himself to the corner if he's approaching the matchup right. Any time you're close enough to compete in neutral he's going to make sure you understand he can compete with you, and your furthest normal leads to a string that puts you at at least -6 despite your options anyway. No matter what option you choose from that string you're at disadvantage at that point, B12 is -6, B12~special is unsafe and B124 puts you back to the position you don't want to be at. She's only scary IF she can even get close enough to open you up.
I agree with pretty much all of your points but I had to highlight this for the lolz.
You're right, "there must be something in the water" indeed.
I like yu. *goes back into hole
First off i didnt say Murk loses to Cybernetic at least not in sets, he just from his understanding of the mu Kano, wins and kano wins the zoning war because his knives are faster so you can throw knives and then block, and i asked stabs right before i posted, and he said he thinks kano beats liu, and Murk doesnt do fireballs up close and i said somewhere around midscreen kano can punish, so liu can only through them out fullscreen, kano does out space liu cause of backdash and zoning, Mileena you can bait the roll, and b12 is not a true mid and can be d4d by Kano, backdashed, d3d, or reversed, he outzones her, I do play Kunglaos that use divekick and true it does catch me but, doing dive kick is risky considering if i just run up and hold block, or you can use run uplaser or ball.Uh bro it definitely is not lol. It's half Kano zoning and Cassie trying to get in, maybe 30% neutral then 20% close up. There's no "until" Cassie gets her turn, it's if she gets her turn. Or do you want to go back through our footage?
Why? I would say those kinds of trades are in Cyber's favour since not only would she be eating the 5% but she'd also have to deal with a followup knife or two. But I'd like to hear why you think so.
The Liu Kang matchup is most definitely in Liu Kang's favour. No offence to murk but if he's losing to Cybernetics he's not playing the matchup correctly. I highly doubt Stabs thinks so, or if he for some reason does I would love to hear why he thinks so. Liu's fireballs are unsafe from upclose, but why would he be doing them that close anyway? If Lius are doing them up close against you that might be a reason they're losing. Lius fireballs being slower than Kanos knives make no difference because they still travel at a decent speed and do more damage so you will lose in the zoning war, or should if you're playing Lius who know the matchup. Liu doesn't need to use flying kick, Kano is the one who has to come in on him because he doesn't trade favourably in zoning. Kano doesn't out space Liu, as I said Liu has the second fastest backwards walkspeed in the game and his footsie tools are above average so if you're winning in neutral you're just the better player in that situation. It really sounds like the Kang(s) you play just don't know the matchup.
I'm fine with Kotal being even, I just don't think Cyber wins is all.
Lol it's cool, you're not the first to say Tanya wins anyway
Mileena shouldn't even be trading with sai, she rolls under knives completely. Kano most definitely does need to respect some of her stuff, B12 is +2 on block and with the space Mileena will be using it at you would be risking a lot to try and do something after it. She shouldn't even be teleporting as it's too slow to use on reaction most of the time. If the player is playing Mileena in a very unsafe way that's on them. not Mileena. Roll is no threat? Tell the Mileena player you're playing that roll goes under knives, see how little a threat it becomes then lol.
Kung Lao does in fact beat Cybernetic because, as I said, he shuts down two of the best areas of Cybernetic's game. If people let you away with run up D2 without at least once trying to divekick to catch you they're not playing the matchup correctly. Competent Kung Lao players will enforce the threat of divekick to shut down your anti-air game and as I said even if they start J2 they can cancel it on whiff into divekick. The risk is not worth the reward considering you don't get to combo from a D2 but Lao can from a divekick. Of course Kano can outzone Lao but Lao shouldn't even be attempting to zone in the first place. You really do play against some weird people lol.
Yes, Kanos damage is definitely below average. Most characters get above 30% meterless and around 40% for a bar, Kano does not. Therefore his damage is below average. Just because you have setups for a grab doesn't make his combo damage any higher, as I said potential damage is irrelevant, keep to practical guaranteed stuff. And as I said about his corner game, the opponent should just be blocking low. They will not be eating any 40+% combos at that point. And 12% compared to 40+%? I think I know what I'd take.
Also no, you brought up that Cybernetic has everything but a 50/50.
Also tagging to confirm opinions aren't just things you're making up @EMPR_MURK @Doctor Stabs
Completely agree with it all, especially laser retstand being cancellable. That shit did wonders for Sub Zero, he has 40% combos with one bar now.
Isn't that just f33~ribbreaker? It looks like during pre-launch, you could finish grounded combos with command grabs, and they took that outThen I think Commando Kano should this back:
Total string damage can be 19%, the grab can be meter burned and the knee will launch the opponent directly above Kano for combos.
I used to think mkx was filled with dirt. Now I don't think that. It is a very honest game. I understand the resource to frame data line and I think Lao and quan Cassie etc, have enough weaknesses to be beaten by most of the cast.
Ik what both you and honeybee are saying. Don't you think quans hard to blockables are dirt ? Tanyas braindead game is dirt ? I referring to that side of the game.
Yea but the trade off is there.
That's pre release when rib breaker wasn't a stand alone move but an ender to f33Completely agree with it all, especially laser retstand being cancellable. That shit did wonders for Sub Zero, he has 40% combos with one bar now.
Up Ball needs a smaller hurtbox so he doesn't trade with air attacks.
To help with Commando, standing 3 needs a tad more range, 32 needs to do 10%,(Wood Chipper would then be 21%, and MB Wood Chipper would then be 13%), and MB Wood Chipper needs to scale less damage. Choke, and Strangle have to be more + on hit. Then I think Commando Kano should this back:
Total string damage can be 19%, the grab can be meter burned and the knee will launch the opponent directly above Kano for combos.
Not too sure, been a while since I last played it, but I reckon rockets might just be a liiiiiiiiiiittle too slow to counterzone effectively.
No this is one I've played quite a bit, he definitely does go even. F1B2 (even when cancelled into most stuff) and F2 are unsafe, making it a giant risk for him to just throw those out in neutral. Kotal cannot punish knives from the range you'd be throwing them at so I don't think that's really a problem. His lack of quick armour in War/Sun God is abusable because you can break it with 11. He can also raw up ball through some ex pizza blockstrings I'm sure. His walkspeed does help against his zoning Though he does outdamage you if he touches you, Kanos neutral along with Kotals lack of fast enough armoured wakeups, lack of unfuzziable mixup options and lack of effective anti/counter-zoning means Kano just doesn't lose. At least in my opinion. Pretty even.
Kano doesn't win the zoning war. Seriously. Play any competent Kang player who knows the matchup and you will find yourself outzoned. All he needs to do is block one knife or get one fireball out and it'll begin. Speed is irrelevant because at full screen it will take longer for knives to reach him and his projectiles outdamage yours. Cybernetic does not have an advantage over Liu Kang from anywhere on the screen. Kano still doesn't outspace Liu Kang, his backdash and knives are not going to shut Liu Kang down, especially when he has his own anti-zoning tools to catch you trying that. Liu Kang's walkspeed makes it harder for Kano to reach him effectively in neutral, this is something I've said a bunch of times now. Maybe your Lius are being too aggressive.
