Both doubtful if its kingdom come flash who is effectively omnipresent.
Do you not understand her power?
I'm vividly aware of her power, but also her inability to will away someone whose lobbed her head off one autosecond into the fight.
She used probability magic. She can make it so she can never technically be hurt ever. It is basically impossible to beat her. Flash Also has limitation as long as Zoom is alive. Also we have no idea how speedsters in the marvel vs will affect him or the speed force.
That was a movie plot device. Also, Flash has the capability to freeze her in time, if not go back in time to stop her, or go so far forward in time that she ceases to exist. He can punch her with infinite mass before her brain can even trigger the synapses to use any form of magic and she dies. Probability or not, she takes that damage or kinetic steal and she is done.
She can do the same thing basically. She can alter reality it self. She can make it so Flash does not have his powers. Why do people think flash is the best when he is beatable. People put him so high up. Its insane. He still has to Move to do everything you are saying. Witch can just do it. Bam no powers. Done. And i think that him having limited powers is an actual thing not just a movie point. Read the comic but dont remember fully. And Flash Still needs the Device to go back in time. Which didnt he not say he would not use again. And he has to move as a certain speed to do the punch. And doesnt he not have to pick up speed to do it. Also doesnt the punch take a lot out of him.
He is beatable, just not by Scarlet Witch. He has to move, but he is the embodyment of speed. Him moving isn't as slow as Scarlet witch having to think to do anything. Flash comes in, taps her, and the kinetic energy within her brain is slowed to a halt. She gets to enjoy the rest of her life as a vegetable because her synapses never reach the point of actual cognition. That or he clothlines her going just under relativity speeds and her entire body explodes. Or he phases through her ala smoke and detonates her on the atomic level.
The rogues give him trouble? Because last I checked Flash was bodying cosmic+ entities by himself, and then blipping back in time to give himself super powers.
Everyone and their mother was a White Lantern for a bit. That doesn't count.
Except Grodd can't, at least not when Flash has the kiddie gloves taken off by the authors.
Well if we're doing kiddie gloves be taken off by authors than Scarlet Witch can take him, but then it would sort of break the rule of "no omnipotent people".
She got merced by someone shooting an arrow, yet you think she is going to be able to stop someone from lobbing her head clean off before she can trigger any magic? Also correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't they in an alternate plane of things in House of M where she basically had domain? Hawkeye ended up surviving as well, and House of M/Dis both lacked someone with the speed and capacity of Flash.
She didn't really get merced though, the arrow didn't matter, the physical damage had no effect on her whatsoever. House of M is the other way around, she was so powerful she warped all of current reality into a different version because she wanted to, so even outside of HoM she has the power. Hawkeye ended up surviving because she chose to bring him back to life. So she was a bit godlike, which is why everyone wanted her dead, it was too messed up to keep her alive, and even then she didn't die, she just let everyone think she did.
House of M came from her mental instability. Pretty much her one-off with nigh-omnipotence was all on account of her random power spasm. That random spasm won't happen if she is frozen in time itself or all of the kinetic energy in her brain is robbed, or if her entire body detonates on an atomic level.
It's cool how you're all (well most anyway) trying to be reasonable about all this, but it's just a matter of twisting facts and picking the facts most suitable for any given situation to have a character you perceive as stronger win the fight. It's fun and I have enjoyed every (okay maybe once again most) post(s) in this thread but if anything this thread just shows there's no way to reach a consensus because that's the nature of the genre.
Oh God! If you want to apply that logic than every superpower is an outlier. Superman can't possibly do stuff like moving planets or traveling at the speed of light. It is physically imposible in the real world for the body of his mass, volume and density. That is why I say this is stupid to talk about who beats who from different universes if some power levels are pretty similar. There is inconsitency in power levels in writers own books. That means that comic authors adjust them to the needs of the situation. And that is why it is impossible to say before hand who will beat who. Because all that shit is theoretical and happens in the copy of the DC or Marvel universe that you or other fan have created inside your imagination. But the actual DC characters are portraited in the comicbooks by their authors. That is where official DC or Marvel universe stands. I feel already stupid because of having this discussion for so long with a kid. Don't get me wrong I like comics and all these dicussions about how awesome it would be if character A faced character B. You can be sure that Superman would probably kick Bruce's ass. But you have got to realize that you can't be saying shit like:" Superman beats Hulk no doubts"!Or "Thanos beats Darseid for sure"! It may be you humble opinion, but there no iron facts. First of all because it is all a fictional world and second the rules of this fictional reality change from book to book.
A) the fact that this statement can be made is hella dumb. It's not any less true, but it approaches the event horizon of stupidity itself.
Because that's what was asked. If we were arguing about which comic book publisher is better it's a different argument entirely, but that's not what the thread is about. Plenty of people have that insane argument as well.
If you take Wanda from the HoM she is pretty close to omnipotent. she decides how fast something is. That means that she can be as fast as she wants to be. And she can make flash as slow as she wants him to be. You can't fight God no matter how fast you are. the fact that she was taken down itself is (how did Doombawks put it?) an Outlier
And again you can't be sure - Flash changes reality too, Not like Wanda and not that he has any real control over what is being changed, but when we are talking about shit on that level of impossible how can we predict the outcome???There is no way. Hell people can not predict what the electrons behave like in different situations - what can you predict about objects moving at speeds several times the lightspeed( Seriously WTF????) and minds warping reality. You can only write you own version of a fictional story about this.
Except no, those abilities are both replicated and within the characters scope of power as shown through several instances against other characters who promote those feats for the sake of their own tanking or powers. Superpowers are feats, random acts of godliness by humans that never would be possible outside of storylines (Capitan Boomerang being even a relative threat to the flash) are outliers.
A) The character is powerful verging on true godhood. Stupid as it may seem, he is leagues above and beyond Scarlet Witch.
You like to argue. Cool story bro.
Doesn't matter he can't just be removed He is the strongest dc char and besides TOAA and Presence only can beat him his power in relative to other chars is way more he pulls out his colts and bang bang