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Match-up Discussion Nightwing Matchup Discussion

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Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Good, so can we be done here?

I can't wait until you witness d1 woman lol
One word for you. Nivek. And we re done here. I ve known WW since day 1 of the game. Sorry but its not the same. And last time i checked WW's d1 in shield stance was +3f on block not +9f on block like NW's pre patch.

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TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
One word for you. Nivek. And we re done here. I ve known WW since day 1 of the game. Sorry but its not the same. And last time i checked WW's d1 in shield stance was +3f on block not +9f on block like NW's.

Where are you getting your numbers?

Nightwings D1 was +5 on block before the nerf...

It's now +3. SMH
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Where are you getting your numbers?

Nightwings D1 was +5 on block before the nerf...

It's now +3. SMH
My bad. Thought it was more. And since you told me that if NW becomes predictable with d1's, DD can counter poke him with d1xxES, i ask you this. Do you know the frames of DD's d1 ? Its 7 frames. Which means that if you do a d1 and i block it, you have another free d1, and another and another and another, except if i back dash which gives me nothing. while DD does not. Got my point now ? NW can do 4 FREE blocked d1's when in point black range. And since NW's d1 is faster than DD's d1 NW's d1 will always win. After 4 blocked d1's NW has 6 options to keep DD out and all of them are safe. Do you still think that DD can counter poke NW with d1xxES ? If you have found the answer to that problem, then by all means, enlighten me. Push block is the only answer here and push blocking a d1 is ridiculous to say the least.

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TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
My bad. Thought it was more. And since you told me that if NW becomes predictable with d1's, DD can counter poke him with d1xxES, i ask you this. Do you know the frames of DD's d1 ? Its 7 frames. Which means that if you do a d1 and i block it, you have another free d1, and another and another another. while DD does not. Got my point now ? NW can do 4 FREE blocked d1's when in point black range. And since NW's d1 is faster than DD's d1 NW's d1 will always win. After 4 blocked d1's NW has 6 options to keep DD out and all of them are safe. Do you still think that DD can counter poke NW with d1xxES ? If you have found the answer to that problem, then by all means, enlighten me.

You're not understanding the significance of what I said.

And I can enlighten you.

Nightwings only string is 11f. Nightwings old d1 granted him a free 1 (6f after being +5 from the d1)

Now, at +3 his d1 cannot give him a free standing 1 (8f) which means that if I get to predictable with my d1's, you CAN intertupt any follow pressure with a read. Before the nerf you could not.

Now, the new d1 also lost the ability to freely buffer into a special. D1~spin, D1~ground pound, D1 grayson can now all be interupted by guess what? Your poke.

The only thing that cannot be interupted, is a d1 to d2 combination which would then yield a free special buffer. I cannot do a naked d2 and follow up with another d1.

So, If I buffer ANY special off the d1, and you read it, it's going to get interupted. If I go for a string and you read it, you can interupt it, if I go for a d2, I have to buffer a special on it to keep momentum, or be left at - frames where you can start your grounded pressure.

Thats the gist of Nightwings new D1 game.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
You're not understanding the significance of what I said.

And I can enlighten you.

Nightwings only string is 11f. Nightwings old d1 granted him a free 1 (6f after being +5 from the d1)

Now, at +3 his d1 cannot give him a free standing 1 (8f) which means that if I get to predictable with my d1's, you CAN intertupt any follow pressure with a read. Before the nerf you could not.

Now, the new d1 also lost the ability to freely buffer into a special. D1~spin, D1~ground pound, D1 grayson can now all be interupted by guess what? Your poke.

The only thing that cannot be interupted, is a d1 to d2 combination which would then yield a free special buffer. I cannot do a naked d2 and follow up with another d1.

So, If I buffer ANY special off the d1, and you read it, it's going to get interupted. If I go for a string and you read it, you can interupt it, if I go for a d2, I have to buffer a special on it to keep momentum, or be left at - frames where you can start your grounded pressure.

Thats the gist of Nightwings new D1 game.
I dont think you read my post correctly. Let me put it to you this way. If NW does 4 d1's, DD has no answer to them. NW doesnt need to cancel them to specials. He just hits 4 d1's and DD is at sweep range where he has nothing against NW. NW on the other hand, on sweep distance, has standing 1, standing 2, ji1, ji2, flying grayson, B3, d3 and db3. All of those moves are safe against DD when done in sweep distance. So pretty much, DD, a rush down character, cannot rush down a character who can build meter like crazy, zone against the majority of the cast like crazy, evades DD's crossups after a hard knock down with db3, has full screen frame traps, and also has very good normals up close, with good range.
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
I dont think you read my post correctly. Let me put it to you this way. If NW does 4 d1's, DD has no answer to them. NW doesnt need to cancel them to specials. He just hits 4 d1's and DD is at sweep range where he has nothing against NW. NW on the other hand, on sweep distance, has standing 1, standing 2, ji1, ji2, flying grayson, B3, d3 and db3. All of those moves are safe against DD when done in sweep distance. So pretty much, DD, a rush down character, cannot rush down a character who can build meter like crazy, zone against the majority of the cast like crazy, evades DD's crossups after a hard knock down with db3, has full screen frame traps, and also has very good normals up close, with good range.

Ex venom would negate all of those options. So why don't you let nightwing do his 4 d1's and then venom charge for advantage.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Ex venom would negate all of those options. So why don't you let nightwing do his 4 d1's and then venom charge for advantage.
Cause MB Venom can be pushed blocked and DD will get far from NW, giving him again the advantage. NW has no problem at all building meter in the particular MU. DD on the other hand has a very big problem build meter in the particular MU. Let me get something straight here. I ve known DD - NW is in NW's favor since April. My thoughts were why on earth would he be given such a fucked up d1. I mean, in the highest lvl, this MU could surely be 8 - 2 NW if its played correctly.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Ex venom would negate all of those options. So why don't you let nightwing do his 4 d1's and then venom charge for advantage.
because it costs meter and the only way dd builds meter against this armoured tank is by getting beat up. not to mention ex venom isnt really +6
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
I don't even know what we are arguing anymore. It's like we are going in circles. I am going to call it a night here fellas.

Like, I can't hand you this match and be like "Do this and win".

I already said it was a winning matchup for Nightwing. I don't think it's a 2-8, I am not ready to say that at this point. Could it be? Sure, but I don't think it is...Ex venom on hit and Doomsdays splash give staff wing to many problems.

Use the stage to your advantage as well...staffwing gets destroyed by interactables.

I would go into training mode, learn how to knock Nightwing down and not let him up. Doomsday is more than capable of this.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
I don't even know what we are arguing anymore. It's like we are going in circles. I am going to call it a night here fellas.
Fair enough. All i have to say is, no offence, next time do some research before you start throwing words here and there. Staff pounds, which you kept mentioning, werent the problem here. Good night.
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Fair enough. All i have to say is, no offence, next time do some research before you start throwing words here and there. Staff pounds, which you kept mentioning, werent the problem here. Good night.

Wow. Just wow.

Do my research? After you came in here and legit said Nightwing's D1 was +9?

Sweet fucking jesus, when I talk to you it's like you make up shit that I say, and then argue against it.

Get your last word in after this post....make it a good one because I am done with this madness.

Fuck me man. Fuck me.
 

NightwingDayZero

Truth, justice and the American way.
EDIT: After a hard knock down if NW wakes up with db3, and he will cause its his best wake up in staff mode because its both safe and has full invincibility, DD's crossup will get blown up, cause he gets hit while airborne by db3. That move has 360 degrees hit box.

So make the read, bait and punish? WoundCowboy punishes me for it all the time, with your helpless Doomsday.

Rico ? You mean Rico Suave ? Last time i checked Rico Suave mained BA and not DD or NW if i remember correctly. The thing is that MB Venom is a way to get in, not to stay in. NW's pokes and normals in general have better frame advantage and are faster than DD's. Just because Rico said it, doesnt mean its correct.
Yes - it is a tool to get in, not a tool to stay in. Make the right reads, get the right knockdown, maintain your pressure. If your opponent is willing to wake up against you once, just assume he'll keep doing it, neutral jump 3.

Yes, Rico was exploring NW as many players have. His brother played Doomsday extensively, and so he had a lot of matchup experience to share. It's an observation he made and discussed with me at EVO. I was there, making the same case you are right now; I was sure that d1 absolutely bodied Doomsday. Yes, it's very effective, but Doomsday has ways of mitigating it.

You pretend to be helpless, maybe because you are. You and your homeboy have been arguing this same moot point all day in multiple threads - meanwhile the Nightwing community (namely myself and TakeAChance) spoon feed you options. You want a bad matchup? Have your bad matchup. NerfedD1wing over Doomsday 10-0 in Greece.
 

Sajam

Nightwing In Retirement
I play Brad's DD almost daily, and he can tell you himself that DD isn't helpless in this matchup at all.

We grind out matches, and we learn stuff about that matchup and it's really close. Lots of NW's flip kick setups are useless against DD because of his hitbox, and DD's corner oki game absolutely crushes NW when he is in escrima. Very few people have solid NW experience, so learn the matchup before crying about how terrible it is.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I play Brad's DD almost daily, and he can tell you himself that DD isn't helpless in this matchup at all.

We grind out matches, and we learn stuff about that matchup and it's really close. Lots of NW's flip kick setups are useless against DD because of his hitbox, and DD's corner oki game absolutely crushes NW when he is in escrima. Very few people have solid NW experience, so learn the matchup before crying about how terrible it is.
Maybe that wouldnt happen if you actually stayed in staff stance, like the matchup is supposed to be played, before saying to learn it and not cry.

my 0.02$
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
So make the read, bait and punish? WoundCowboy punishes me for it all the time, with your helpless Doomsday.



Yes - it is a tool to get in, not a tool to stay in. Make the right reads, get the right knockdown, maintain your pressure. If your opponent is willing to wake up against you once, just assume he'll keep doing it, neutral jump 3.

Yes, Rico was exploring NW as many players have. His brother played Doomsday extensively, and so he had a lot of matchup experience to share. It's an observation he made and discussed with me at EVO. I was there, making the same case you are right now; I was sure that d1 absolutely bodied Doomsday. Yes, it's very effective, but Doomsday has ways of mitigating it.

You pretend to be helpless, maybe because you are. You and your homeboy have been arguing this same moot point all day in multiple threads - meanwhile the Nightwing community (namely myself and TakeAChance) spoon feed you options. You want a bad matchup? Have your bad matchup. NerfedD1wing over Doomsday 10-0 in Greece.
The point is, DD has options. Those options also make the matchup in NWs favour, thats all we said and thats on what everyone in here agrees to.

Also " assume hell keep doing it" doesnt apply to good players that know the matchup, noone will wakeup just because.
 

Sajam

Nightwing In Retirement
Maybe that wouldnt happen if you actually stayed in staff stance, like the matchup is supposed to be played, before saying to learn it and not cry.

my 0.02$
DD has setups that blow up NW's staff too.

Trust me, I've played the matchup to death, and it is in NW's favor a small amount, but it is very winnable for DD. Especially if DD gets a map like Metro Rooftop against NW, then it becomes really hard.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
DD has setups that blow up NW's staff too.

Trust me, I've played the matchup to death, and it is in NW's favor a small amount, but it is very winnable for DD. Especially if DD gets a map like Metro Rooftop against NW, then it becomes really hard.
which setups?
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
If Doomsday stays just out of range of NW's normals in staff he can react to most things NW tries to do. So you basically sit there and try to bait stuff out until you get a knockdown or trait. From there if he's in staff you can oki him pretty hard as long as you're careful. If you activate trait, and aren't stupid with your offense, it's in DDs favor as long as NW stays in staff. But if you activate trait and he goes into escrima he has a lot more options to avoid you. I would honestly say it's 5.5/4.5 slightly in NWs favor as long as he plays the match up perfectly and you aren't on Metro Rooftop. If the DD gets metro he's free to make a lot more mistakes as long as the drone gods are nice. There's my overview. Hopefully it helps some of you annoying blue stripper pole dicks. ;) <3

tl;dr Sit there and let him come at you when you're in staff, don't try to mount an offense unless he's close. If he traits, go into escrima.
 
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