Chongo
Dead Kings Rise
No matter how different our opinions of the HG mu is, we can both agree that WW is bullshitGood, so can we be done here?
I can't wait until you witness d1 woman lol
No matter how different our opinions of the HG mu is, we can both agree that WW is bullshitGood, so can we be done here?
I can't wait until you witness d1 woman lol
i still say its 7 3, nw builds meter much faster and dd needs meter to get in, nw can zone and defend by default as well as pressure when he has meterNightwing wins the matchup, I get it, it's hard for you I understand.
One word for you. Nivek. And we re done here. I ve known WW since day 1 of the game. Sorry but its not the same. And last time i checked WW's d1 in shield stance was +3f on block not +9f on block like NW's pre patch.Good, so can we be done here?
I can't wait until you witness d1 woman lol
One word for you. Nivek. And we re done here. I ve known WW since day 1 of the game. Sorry but its not the same. And last time i checked WW's d1 in shield stance was +3f on block not +9f on block like NW's.
My bad. Thought it was more. And since you told me that if NW becomes predictable with d1's, DD can counter poke him with d1xxES, i ask you this. Do you know the frames of DD's d1 ? Its 7 frames. Which means that if you do a d1 and i block it, you have another free d1, and another and another and another, except if i back dash which gives me nothing. while DD does not. Got my point now ? NW can do 4 FREE blocked d1's when in point black range. And since NW's d1 is faster than DD's d1 NW's d1 will always win. After 4 blocked d1's NW has 6 options to keep DD out and all of them are safe. Do you still think that DD can counter poke NW with d1xxES ? If you have found the answer to that problem, then by all means, enlighten me. Push block is the only answer here and push blocking a d1 is ridiculous to say the least.Where are you getting your numbers?
Nightwings D1 was +5 on block before the nerf...
It's now +3. SMH
My bad. Thought it was more. And since you told me that if NW becomes predictable with d1's, DD can counter poke him with d1xxES, i ask you this. Do you know the frames of DD's d1 ? Its 7 frames. Which means that if you do a d1 and i block it, you have another free d1, and another and another another. while DD does not. Got my point now ? NW can do 4 FREE blocked d1's when in point black range. And since NW's d1 is faster than DD's d1 NW's d1 will always win. After 4 blocked d1's NW has 6 options to keep DD out and all of them are safe. Do you still think that DD can counter poke NW with d1xxES ? If you have found the answer to that problem, then by all means, enlighten me.
I dont think you read my post correctly. Let me put it to you this way. If NW does 4 d1's, DD has no answer to them. NW doesnt need to cancel them to specials. He just hits 4 d1's and DD is at sweep range where he has nothing against NW. NW on the other hand, on sweep distance, has standing 1, standing 2, ji1, ji2, flying grayson, B3, d3 and db3. All of those moves are safe against DD when done in sweep distance. So pretty much, DD, a rush down character, cannot rush down a character who can build meter like crazy, zone against the majority of the cast like crazy, evades DD's crossups after a hard knock down with db3, has full screen frame traps, and also has very good normals up close, with good range.You're not understanding the significance of what I said.
And I can enlighten you.
Nightwings only string is 11f. Nightwings old d1 granted him a free 1 (6f after being +5 from the d1)
Now, at +3 his d1 cannot give him a free standing 1 (8f) which means that if I get to predictable with my d1's, you CAN intertupt any follow pressure with a read. Before the nerf you could not.
Now, the new d1 also lost the ability to freely buffer into a special. D1~spin, D1~ground pound, D1 grayson can now all be interupted by guess what? Your poke.
The only thing that cannot be interupted, is a d1 to d2 combination which would then yield a free special buffer. I cannot do a naked d2 and follow up with another d1.
So, If I buffer ANY special off the d1, and you read it, it's going to get interupted. If I go for a string and you read it, you can interupt it, if I go for a d2, I have to buffer a special on it to keep momentum, or be left at - frames where you can start your grounded pressure.
Thats the gist of Nightwings new D1 game.
I dont think you read my post correctly. Let me put it to you this way. If NW does 4 d1's, DD has no answer to them. NW doesnt need to cancel them to specials. He just hits 4 d1's and DD is at sweep range where he has nothing against NW. NW on the other hand, on sweep distance, has standing 1, standing 2, ji1, ji2, flying grayson, B3, d3 and db3. All of those moves are safe against DD when done in sweep distance. So pretty much, DD, a rush down character, cannot rush down a character who can build meter like crazy, zone against the majority of the cast like crazy, evades DD's crossups after a hard knock down with db3, has full screen frame traps, and also has very good normals up close, with good range.
Cause MB Venom can be pushed blocked and DD will get far from NW, giving him again the advantage. NW has no problem at all building meter in the particular MU. DD on the other hand has a very big problem build meter in the particular MU. Let me get something straight here. I ve known DD - NW is in NW's favor since April. My thoughts were why on earth would he be given such a fucked up d1. I mean, in the highest lvl, this MU could surely be 8 - 2 NW if its played correctly.Ex venom would negate all of those options. So why don't you let nightwing do his 4 d1's and then venom charge for advantage.
because it costs meter and the only way dd builds meter against this armoured tank is by getting beat up. not to mention ex venom isnt really +6Ex venom would negate all of those options. So why don't you let nightwing do his 4 d1's and then venom charge for advantage.
Fair enough. All i have to say is, no offence, next time do some research before you start throwing words here and there. Staff pounds, which you kept mentioning, werent the problem here. Good night.I don't even know what we are arguing anymore. It's like we are going in circles. I am going to call it a night here fellas.
Fair enough. All i have to say is, no offence, next time do some research before you start throwing words here and there. Staff pounds, which you kept mentioning, werent the problem here. Good night.
So how about that Dick v.s. Damian match up?
Here comes the hot sauce.So how about that Dick v.s. Damian match up?
Not because of the hot sauce? I do not believe this.Damien 9-1 because of rock.
EDIT: After a hard knock down if NW wakes up with db3, and he will cause its his best wake up in staff mode because its both safe and has full invincibility, DD's crossup will get blown up, cause he gets hit while airborne by db3. That move has 360 degrees hit box.
Yes - it is a tool to get in, not a tool to stay in. Make the right reads, get the right knockdown, maintain your pressure. If your opponent is willing to wake up against you once, just assume he'll keep doing it, neutral jump 3.Rico ? You mean Rico Suave ? Last time i checked Rico Suave mained BA and not DD or NW if i remember correctly. The thing is that MB Venom is a way to get in, not to stay in. NW's pokes and normals in general have better frame advantage and are faster than DD's. Just because Rico said it, doesnt mean its correct.
Maybe that wouldnt happen if you actually stayed in staff stance, like the matchup is supposed to be played, before saying to learn it and not cry.I play Brad's DD almost daily, and he can tell you himself that DD isn't helpless in this matchup at all.
We grind out matches, and we learn stuff about that matchup and it's really close. Lots of NW's flip kick setups are useless against DD because of his hitbox, and DD's corner oki game absolutely crushes NW when he is in escrima. Very few people have solid NW experience, so learn the matchup before crying about how terrible it is.
The point is, DD has options. Those options also make the matchup in NWs favour, thats all we said and thats on what everyone in here agrees to.So make the read, bait and punish? WoundCowboy punishes me for it all the time, with your helpless Doomsday.
Yes - it is a tool to get in, not a tool to stay in. Make the right reads, get the right knockdown, maintain your pressure. If your opponent is willing to wake up against you once, just assume he'll keep doing it, neutral jump 3.
Yes, Rico was exploring NW as many players have. His brother played Doomsday extensively, and so he had a lot of matchup experience to share. It's an observation he made and discussed with me at EVO. I was there, making the same case you are right now; I was sure that d1 absolutely bodied Doomsday. Yes, it's very effective, but Doomsday has ways of mitigating it.
You pretend to be helpless, maybe because you are. You and your homeboy have been arguing this same moot point all day in multiple threads - meanwhile the Nightwing community (namely myself and TakeAChance) spoon feed you options. You want a bad matchup? Have your bad matchup. NerfedD1wing over Doomsday 10-0 in Greece.
DD has setups that blow up NW's staff too.Maybe that wouldnt happen if you actually stayed in staff stance, like the matchup is supposed to be played, before saying to learn it and not cry.
my 0.02$
which setups?DD has setups that blow up NW's staff too.
Trust me, I've played the matchup to death, and it is in NW's favor a small amount, but it is very winnable for DD. Especially if DD gets a map like Metro Rooftop against NW, then it becomes really hard.