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Video/Tutorial Aquaman vs. Nightwing video and discussion

What do you think the Aquaman vs. Nightwing matchup is?

  • Total voters
    15
HGTV Soapboxfan

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
Okay so to help everybody out, I made a video on the nightwing matchup. I was originally planning on making a really high production video, but then I said screw it, I just need to get the info across, and I happened to have a little bit of time to kill this morning. Therefore, this is off the top of my head. If that annoys you guys or there is something that is unclear, or if I missed something, or you have any concerns or questions please let me know!!!


Here are a few things I know I missed:

I talk about not wanting to be in a specific range against nightwing, then say that it is good that trident rush leaves you at this range. This can be confusing. What I am referring to is the idea in footsies that you want to move in and out of your opponents optimal range. This helps you bait your opponent into overextending their offense. This is KEY to the matchup here in particular.

I completly missed talking about AA against Nightwing. Yes it is particularly difficult to do on reaction to his staff stance hop. Don't be afraid to just block if it catches you off guard, the law of patience that I talk about in the video still applies. And if they get jump happy, look for it and AA with a d2. Escrima is difficult to anti air due to his option of wing ding. Unfortunatly here, the best option I have found is just making the read. If you want to commit to beating both options ( the jump in or wingdings) then go for the air to air.

Overheads- You have no real reason to block low against NW besides fuzzying lows in his strings, but you may want to to allow yourself to poke instantly. Look for s.2 which is a slow overhead that launches for a full combo in staff. In escrima, his main poke, b2 is an overhead.

Thats pretty much it. Like I said, hit me up with any questions. And if you guys find this helpful, I would be willing to do this for any matchup, as soon as I learn it myself.


Here is an addition to my original post, talking more about the staff stance pressure game and how to get out of it, which I feel like I could have been clearer on originally.
 
Ben Reed

Ben Reed

Marine Biologist
Your video was very enlightening, but I still don't think I'd call this matchup any better for Aquaman than even (considering both stances, I agree escrima is much less difficult to out-footsie than staff). I believe that Nightwing's just slightly better equipped to suppress Aquaman's options than Aquaman is to suppress his. Aquaman has to take risks to deprive Nightwing of his favorable situations. Nightwing's risks are considerably safer to keep Aquaman off his game. Both characters are roughly even on damage output at the same ranges (yes Nightwing can get 35-45% for 1 bar midscreen...I've seen it happen and it hurts). Only thing NW lacks is an anti-air that shits on Aquaman, and he doesn't really need it.

I am gradually getting more experience with the matchup by playing a REALLY good Nightwing, but it's still hard. i don't think it's quite as hard as Killer Frost, but "just be patient" kinda undersells just how difficult that is against Nightwing. This guy has probably the best balance of offensive safety and damage output in the game of anybody not named Killer Frost or Superman.
 
HGTV Soapboxfan

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
Ben Reed said:
Your video was very enlightening, but I still don't think I'd call this matchup any better for Aquaman than even (considering both stances, I agree escrima is much less difficult to out-footsie than staff). I believe that Nightwing's just slightly better equipped to suppress Aquaman's options than Aquaman is to suppress his. Aquaman has to take risks to deprive Nightwing of his favorable situations. Nightwing's risks are considerably safer to keep Aquaman off his game. Both characters are roughly even on damage output at the same ranges (yes Nightwing can get 35-45% for 1 bar midscreen...I've seen it happen and it hurts). Only thing NW lacks is an anti-air that shits on Aquaman, and he doesn't really need it.

I am gradually getting more experience with the matchup by playing a REALLY good Nightwing, but it's still hard. i don't think it's quite as hard as Killer Frost, but "just be patient" kinda undersells just how difficult that is against Nightwing. This guy has probably the best balance of offensive safety and damage output in the game of anybody not named Killer Frost or Superman.
Click to expand...
What risks does aquaman need to take though? The only one I can really think of is interrupting night wings offense but even if you guys guess wrong on that you aren't getting comboed.
 
HGTV Soapboxfan

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
Couple more things to say after thinking about the match more. Against staff stance armor is really good since his normals tend to have long duration, and you should have tons of meter for it because of your block strings. Also due to staffs limited mobility, the water shield game is really effective when you have a life lead and a meter lead (which is the exact situation your block strings great you). Also can some one test the wake up trap on nw? I'm drawing a blank on what his options are in both stances.
 
Ben Reed

Ben Reed

Marine Biologist
Risks as in hitting buttons -- or more specifically, committing to options with long recovery time on whiff such as backdashes or pokes against a completely neutral opponent. This is one of the rare matchups that Aquaman can't control just by walking a few steps and waiting for the opponent to hit a button first. If Nightwing's not already in your face, he for DAMN sure wants to be in there. Once he's in, he'll be in for a WHILE, or you'll have to spend precious meter just to go back to neutral (unless he overthinks it and puts something slow out there that you can MB b3/f3 into full combo). Moreover a Nightwing player will EXPECT that you want to be patient, so you need to defy that expectation by throwing stuff into the lane, sometimes from disadvantage, that he can "trip" on. The risk is that Nightwing will read these and get to play what is traditionally Aquaman's game with whiff or block punishes by baiting at specific ranges. The reward, of course, is that Nightwing does not EXPECT a YOLO Aquaman, and you collect a decent combo for your troubles. But the stakes are still kinda harder for Aquaman because while it IS a pretty even game at neutral, when it comes to corners, Nightwing bullies Aquaman MUCH harder than Aquaman bullies him.

Again, I'm certainly not saying it's unwinnable. I've started taking more games off my most regular Nightwing opponent (and I want to STRESS, this guy is REALLY good...not just good combos but he understands the Aquaman matchup WELL from fighting me with his ALSO-strong Deathstroke), but I don't think it's Aquaman's favor. Too even at neutral, too rigged against Aquaman when Nightwing has initiative. You sell "patience" really hard in this, and I believe firmly in patience (especially in a game where 95% of the playerbase can't stop jumping)...but Nightwing can be patient, too. He shouldn't be CONSTANTLY hammering staff d1 in your face anyway unless it's part of a greater conditioning scheme, which I think Nightwing is more than equipped for. If Nightwing is painfully predictable, yeah, just sitting tight works wonders. If Nightwing knows how to DIVERSIFY his offense and read your intentions (not that hard, Aquaman is not exactly the most flexible character in the game...he generally doesn't NEED to be, though), he can make sitting tight work against you.

If not for trait I'd probably give it to Nightwing (not more than 4-6, though, I don't think Aquaman has ANY matchup worse than 4-6, and certainly not many), but because of trait I'd call it 5-5. That trait CAN'T be undersold, it's THAT good, not just for the physical reward ("Hot damn, I'm not getting comboed!") but for the psychological reward as well ("WTF Aquaman broke my awesome combo, fuck, what do I do now?"). Absolutely critical to have such an x-factor (not X-Factor) in an even character matchup.

IMO this is a player matchup, pure and simple, and thus I can't really say it's any better than 5-5 for Aquaman ON PAPER. If you want to win this matchup, I think you need to learn your opponent AS MUCH AS, if not MORE than, the character, because Nightwing has a TON of crap at his disposal to fight Aquaman with.

I might have a more positive opinion on this matchup if I didn't only get to play it once a week (live, thankfully, not online). And the rest of the week I don't really have lab time except for basic punishes and BnB drills. So usually when I get to play a set, I'm not exactly in top form. A lot of times I don't even remember the tactics I wanted to try until hours after the set ended.
 
HGTV Soapboxfan

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
I understand what your saying, I really do. But my point is that due to nightwings poor mobility, he has to take risks to punish aquaman for these things just as much as aquaman risks to do them. Take for example after aquaman uses b12 trident as a block string. To punish aquamans back dash, nightwing has to read it and b1, staff slam, jump forward 1, or flying grayson. Now if aquaman ducks he can aa the jump on reaction, punish the flying grayson, punish the b1, and blocks the ground slam. He can jump the staff slam for a full combo. So the situation is extremely even, but right after aquaman just built almost half a bar and did good chip. Now let's say nightwing gets in. He gets his 4 d1s and then pretty much the exact same situation occurs (aquaman can back dash, nightwing can punish, etc) but nw did less chip and built no meter. This is why up close, nightwing has to take risks, not Aquaman.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Nice video. Staff normal break down made me see the light. I cannot believe I never realized he basically only has 1 low. I need to practice that fuzzy guard.

One thing you missed was the meter burned wing ding. Im not kidding when I say NEVER dash after wing ding. You have to sit there and block.

Now if we just had a video for what to do when Dick has a decent life lead. That's where this matchup gets really hard.
 
HGTV Soapboxfan

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
Name v.5.0 said:
Nice video. Staff normal break down made me see the light. I cannot believe I never realized he basically only has 1 low. I need to practice that fuzzy guard.

One thing you missed was the meter burned wing ding. Im not kidding when I say NEVER dash after wing ding. You have to sit there and block.

Now if we just had a video for what to do when Dick has a decent life lead. That's where this matchup gets really hard.
Click to expand...
You do have a point with meter burn wing ding. That is a big tool in the matchup, can't believe I forgot it. What I would suggest is just let him do it. Let him throw his meter away. Now that you are shutting down his staff zoning and everything, he is going to have a tough time building meter. If he just throws it away on this, he won't be able to push block, clash effectively, use his block inf in the corner etc. This isn't a move where you are going to have this easy way of punishing it and stop it. The punishment that you are going to get on this move is at the end of the match, if that makes any sense. also since there is no combo threat here, I wouldn't be afraid to try to dash once and a while just to force him to mb.

On the life lead part, I have to agree with you, the whole match changes when you fuck up and he gets the life advantage. What i would try to do is change your strategy slightly to try and push him to the corner where you have more continous offense, and just try to mix him up. Note that you are normally going to have more meter than him, so you can clash to make up some health. Your whole goal in the match is to not lose the life lead anyway though, for sure.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
You pretty much covered anything i needed to know man.
thanks a lot for this, that's all i have to say, all suggestions and hints noted
 
trustinme

trustinme

xbl-OBS trustinme
Very nice vid hgtv,Its nice that people take
The time to make these vids and help people figure out matchups.i really wish I had more time to play,I genuinely feel I could help the aqua forums quite abit.good work bro.
 
HGTV Soapboxfan

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
trustinme said:
Very nice vid hgtv,Its nice that people take
The time to make these vids and help people figure out matchups.i really wish I had more time to play,I genuinely feel I could help the aqua forums quite abit.good work bro.
Click to expand...
I am high schooler, and summer just started. I have all the time in the world. I want to use that time to level up this character and this community as much as possible.
 
dabuz

dabuz

Noob
Vs. Wingdings, something I have to add is that you can water shield and the wingdings will just go through Aquaman, leaving you with a nice Trident Scoop punish.
 
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