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Match-up Discussion Nightwing Matchup Discussion

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KombatNerd

Justice 4 Firestorm

As someone who secondaries the character, I can tell you that this is one of AM's more annoying MUs.

You CANNOT check with from the deep or trident throw because Nightwing can always punish that with his staff spark (or w/e it's called, db2), so long range combat is completely a waste of time.

At mid range you can try to play very precise with spacing and footsies, but NW's staff has almost as much range as AM, so any errors in spacing will leave AM to get poked and stuffed pretty hard because NW's attacks at that range have faster startup, luckily AM has about twice as much damage output on his attacks.

What this means if you want to play a close range game, NW's only strong and safe CQC option with staff is d1 which is easy to predict. Get into b12 range and go for mixups then keep the pressure on NW. You want to force resets since NW has trouble dealing with those because he doesn't have any reliable character specific options. Getting in that close to NW just takes one good read at mid range and the damage output difference is stacked in AM's favor.


[...]
As a side note: Ares j1 will blow up every jumping attack we have and will beat out wingdings if he's close enough. I don't even bother with Escrima against him. Out zone him with staff db2 and when he teleports counter his bs block strings with d1.


So far, my least favorite match up for Bane is Nightwing. The good news though is once you get him in the corner, he's done. But the trouble is getting in on him. His wingdings beats out all super armor, even level 3. His staff stance can be abused once you get closer to him, his j.3 is great too and can be cancelled into wingdings. How're you guys handling him?


Abuse the bats, play a mid-long range game with him that should frustrate the Nightwing into playing dumb, then rush in for those damaging combos.
When Batman bullshits around with b23. You can b3 MB the explosion of the bats on the ground. And punish the fuck out of him.

Excuse the expletives but I fucking haaaaate the Batman matchup.


http://www.twitch.tv/nightwingdayzero/b/438916788
Ev1d3nts: Against Black Adam I keep trying to approach with Jump 3 followed by his air projectile. When the opponent goes down, I start the pressure. My tip is: Don't stay on the floor, cause he'll try to thunderbolt or grab you


What do we think about Nightwing?

His ground blasts are a pain in the ass full screen. It`s pretty tough to MB CatDash them unless you do it preemptively by a bit.
His staff stance does a great job at keeping her out. He can abuse the hell of out of D1 staff to make you waste your meter on push block. It`s not like you can whiff punish him with anything. I feel like jump2 is my best option for the whole match until I can knock him down.
And his multiple hit moves tear through armored B3`s.
Its a third and last Kitty MU in the game im afraid to play with her.(The first two is Black Adam and Aquaman). He can outzone CW with ease in a both stances but on midscreen he doesnt even need staff. Jumping on him while he is in escrime stance is useless: his air batarangs wont let u do this. His jmp3 is really sick, he`ll always beat out your whip, try using jmp1.
Even if u finally got on him, ur tools are really limit against NW. He`s got so many options. 112-string gives him free check with B2. If he started offense with d1,2 u can beat out his attempt of B2-check with d1 and 1 but he also have:
1) another guaranteed d1,2.
2)d1,2-cancel into trait-staffspin.
Be careful and always block high against his escrima stance. He doesnt have low combo starters from this stance so u dont need to block low. But dont forget, good NW players will always start doing some shit like b13(last hit is low) and d3.
B2 ends his pressure but even here he can mix it and cancel it into Overhead samersault (MB-version is plus on block,on hit it is 30% for NW) so be careful to interrupt him without thinking.

Staff stance. I can only describe this with one sentence: if he is on you, ur fucked.
U absolutely have zero options to do anything against him on midscreen except random cat dash and jumping and he`s got decent air to air work in SS. If u blocked MBground blast u have to block another ground blast, just to know. U have attempt to MB CD him after he did ground blast. Most of the time u block low just to not be launched by MBground blast for 35%.Yep, while he`s got 20f overhead...
If u blocked MB-Ground Blast midscreen(even 3/4 fullscreen) u dont jump because he can free check u with Flying Grayson. U can wait it ducking to whiff punish but he also gets 100% winnable air to air so u dont really want to jump on him. I dont want to describe anything about the corner: just use block escape and may the force be with you.

In my opinion, this MU is 7-3 in NW`s favor. Selina really struggles against him.




Air gunshots work really well vs Nightwing from my experience.

Trying to perfect instant air ones is a bitch though.

I think I've got the NW match figured out, at least from a zoning perspective. If you jump or otherwise avoid a Ground Blast, you can connect a gunshot. Once you do land a gun-shot, you can continue to spam those because they apparently beat out the start-up of Ground Blast. It appears to be a heavily momentum-influenced battle. Just remember that if you do block a Ground Blast, you don't really have any options except to jump or continue blocking. Smart meter usage by the Nightwing player can make this a nightmare, though.

As far as the upclose game, I'm still not sure. Nightwing's wakeup attacks are multi-hitting, so trying to armor-rush him on wakeup isn't going to work. Probably best to just try to zone him out. I could easily see this as a 5/5.
I believe Nightwing might be the first character I can confidently say is a 6/4 against DS. I'll post some match footage in a bit to back up my claim, but the main issue is that Nightwing can actually establish zoning momentum that is incredibly difficult for Deathstroke to break. On the other hand, Nightwing can break DS's zoning with a well-timed Air Shuriken. That means DS will actually have to close the gap a lot of the time, and Nightwing's rushdown beats his pretty handily.
 

KombatNerd

Justice 4 Firestorm

If he has a bad one at all I think this is one of them. Staff stance's range and frame advantage is tough to deal with and because he has so many multi hitting quick options armor doesnt help very often. His ground pound projectile is also really fast and will beat out a supernova on start up. Glowstick stance isnt has bad, but if he's using them right the air projectile is annoying for sure. Nightwings tend to jump alot (he's jumping 3 is awesome so I dont blame them) so anti-air like a champ and be a bit more patient.
So I've been playing NW vs Doomsday and NW's escrimas can avoid his Supernova with ease by dashing forward and gets a rewarding punish. However it's not that easy in staff...
In staff you only have one viable option and that is flying grayson at the right moment, right before Doomsday is going to hit you. You do not get a punish from this. Other options I've been playing with are J2 and J3, I can AA Doomsday sometimes but if I do it's mostly a trade with a slight favor to DD when it comes to damage. It's not a viable option, only flying grayson.

So if you have meter, be prepared to B3 MB that SOB.




Making Nightwing whiff with his staff leaves him very open for F2 since it has such good range. keep backdashing blocking and poking. Punish everyone of his mistakes.
************NIGHTWING**************
Matchup +/-
6-4 GA

Overview
Just Block on wake up.

Play footsies with his nunchucks. F2D1
Block high and be conservative.he is faster. Sit back on his nunchucks strings. They never seem to end.

Zone his staff. Block low and punish his slow overheads

NIghtwing is a pressure momentum, character. Control the space. Zone and punish. No need to RTSD.

Punish This

His overheads in staff stance that come mid string. D1 is totally safe even on his meter burn
I spent the day in a lobby of some really good nightwings. They all kept saying how incredibly frustrating it is to get in on Green Arrow. The thing is I never actively try to zone them. Nightwing is strong, because he catches you pushing buttons. His staff overheads can be read with practice.

I don't think anyone in the cast is more free to Haven blasts than Nightwing, because he always wants to be in your ass and to do it he has to commit to some sort of launching staff move to get you if you're in good position. Backdash a lot, Block more and make him respect your D2 and F2's range. Down Haven a lot when he tries to close the distance, naturally this will find you at full screen sometimes. I like to use fire arrows and make him earn his way back in then. I like to play very conservative against nightwing and once they start acting reckless remind them Oliver has some of the best pressure in the game.

Side note, I actually use Jumping down arrows a lot in this matchup lol not as an attack, but as another footsie tool. Also when it's MB the range doubles and causes a knockdown. when you're comfortable with blocking his strings. start jumping some and knocking him down... They'll hate it! :)
I don't feel like NW needs to respect Green Arrow's zoning much when he is in staff stance. Once GA blocks one ground blast he loses the zoning war. NW can hit him out of the start-up of arrows at that point. I can usually punish his loads on reaction with mb ground blast. Once he is forced to come to you, he struggles against staff pokes. GA does have good mix-ups if he gets close to you. That has been my experience at least.


[...]
It's going to have to be Escrima heavy. Staff at full screen doesn't do crap to Hal, he has no reason to be grounded. Going to have to avoid and block Oa's Rocket and dash in quick. Maintain momentum and always halt his. Pushblock whenever he starts shit. We're not burning as much meter on MB Ground Blast as normal so we'll have the extra meter for this. Every time we block a Lift, punish if close enough, close the distance if too far. We're going to have to keep on him and just not let him get started as much.
From the GL's I played at civil war it doesn't feel Escrima heavy. It's all about getting in, which you would use Escrima to do. After that It's really up to the player to stay there with staff or Escrima. In staff you can just harass them with d1,1f-etc. strings,throws, overheads, staff spin,and ground spark. Once you're in GL is free
Just patience. NW can't use Staff at far range, so he'll settle for blocking Rockets and taking a quick dash in, or trying to avoid them while in Escrima.

Minigun pushes back but not at a far enough distance. NW only needs one dash at that distance to be in while in Escrima. At that point it becomes a test of wills, one dictated by Hal. A good Lift will wreck NW's day. A bad one will kill Hal.

Hal will have to make mistakes to lose, but unlike say the Hawkgirl/NW matchup, the nature of the match will cause Hal to do so by default.

It's an interesting matchup to watch and play to me. Personally though, if you're looking for a counter pick against NW, I don't think Hal slants it far enough in your favor.




Hawkgirl: Put down your controller for the moment, and swear at the sky for making you fight her.
A Hawkgirl who plays the matchup correctly will rarely ever lose. Her tools are nearly complete counters for Nightwing's. This isn't opinion, that's fact.

While Black Adam is tough, Nightwing's tools at least play a role against him. He has to respect Wing Dings when jumping, Hawkgirl does not. He has to respect Nightwing's jumps, Hawkgirl does not. Black Adam can't play his zoning game against Nightwing without getting punished. Hawkgirl can. If Black Adam is indeed a bad MU for Nightwing, it's nowhere near as bad as the Hawkgirl MU.
NightWing(Easy from the Air /Easy/Moderate on the ground): He can't touch her from the ground when she is at full height flight. He has good range when in Staff Stance (his jump+normals have great range)...if you fight this match from the air 70% of the match....you should win easily. On the ground...just have to be alert to his ground projectiles and his own version of the over head stomp. TiP: WHEN NIGHTWING IS IN STAFF STANCE...GET OFF THE GROUND. Match summary: Zone him from the air/run away.l
I played a rather solid Hawkgirl in an offline set of casuals for about 2 hours today. Here's what I learned.

1. Take the initiative, always. Force her to block 112, even mid screen, and follow up with a block string.
2. If she's top corner of the screen, dash, block, dash, Flip kick.
3. Armor B3 her foot dive. Every time. Send the message that coming down from there will never be safe. Force her to burn the meter on her db1 to get away safely.
4. If she starts going in, block high. Her only low string is b22 with a 15 or 17 frame start up. Either way, you should be able to sniff it out.
5. Staff is really not optimal in this matchup, whenever possible be in Escrima.
6. Her D1 is 6 frames and safe on block. Must respect it.

This matchup really was not as much trouble for me as I anticipated. Dealing with her zoning is so much easier in an offline setting.
Her trait alone negates pretty much all of Nightwing's offense. She doesn't have to take true risks in order to screw with him. She wrecks him when he's cornered. Her air normals do a good job beating his. And of course, NW's Anti-airs being subpar doesn't help when dealing with a very air-based character.

It's not unbeatable but really, the only reason Hawkgirl should lose a match is if she fucks up. But Nightwing's offense is explosive and oppressive enough to not make it any worse than 7-3 because that ONE mistake Hawkgirl makes could be all he needs.




Against KF, you read her slide and counter it with NJ or jumping backwards(depends on how close she is). You'll be able to full punish it.
D1 hits KF out of her slide as well on a good read.
 

KombatNerd

Justice 4 Firestorm


Regarding the Lex Luthor MU

-112 is Lex's main string as of right now. You can easily duck the 1's and interrupt with d1xxMBGround Blast.

-If Lex chooses to end a combo with "Orbital Strike", you can Flying Grayson him before the missles hit, and I'm 90% sure he cannot escape it. (Tested online with a friend, so yeah ;_;)

This is day 1 info, so no guarantees :(.




Nightwing-
His staff stance is deadly up close. Raven has very few options other than to backdash out of pressure. Attempting any strings will usually result in being poked out of it; he deals impressive damage too. You will mostly want to remain mid-screen to long distance from Nightwing, and play keepaway. Punish any jump ins or whiffed moves with a meter-burned Singularity for a full combo punish. Close-up fighting is his specialty, so again, dash away and maintain distance. Do not jump because he can still catch you with his staff. If he gets in, B23 him to initiate keepaway.
I'd consider this a 5.5-4.5 matchup at this time until I see more Escrima stuff.
I've only had experience against Raven and I hate that character. lol You have to play super safe, bait the wake up grab and stay on her. I know you're suppose to play safe period, but just dashing forward can cause you to get grabbed. The only tip I can given is once you get in on her, stay the hell in on her. She doesn't have a lot of good close range tools, just be cautious of the wake up grab and F.3/B.3 MB. Raven wants a mid-long range fight. I forgot the inputs, but I know she has a good string which is plus on block and be careful of that too.




http://www.twitch.tv/nightwingdayzero/b/438916788
So far it feels like NW can counter zone the shit out of him from full screen

His ground sparks goes under his projectiles. if he does the overhead into another overhead you can throw a ground spark and still block in time.

Who knows, I could be wrong lol
Ground blast beats out shackles if sinestro does any projectiles and follows up with shackles on block. MB fear blast gives him enough advantage to beat it out though

On block ground spark causes a trade in sinestros favor.


His armor grab at a distance goes through anything anyway.

First rule of fighting Grundy: Don't jump in on him in Escrima, he'll d2 you and you'll cry.
Second rule: Don't let him get close to you if you're not the one initiating the offense.
Third Rule: RESPECT MB SWAMP HANDS.
Fourth Rule: Staff Stance is the best for this matchup.

Learn to use Staff Stance. Trust me, proper use of it can annihilate Grundys.
And if Grundy reads a ground spark or air wingdings, you're going to get MB swamp hands'd for 44-51%. If you want to get in Grundys face with Escrima you're playing a very dangerous game.

zoning out grapplers with pokes is the most reliable way to find success. Grundy can't swamp hands at mid screen without taking 1d2 1f1 or 1f2. Watch any Zangief matchup and you'll see such an incredible parallel.


Nightwing has the most ridiculous frame data in Injustice. His staff D1 is 6 frames AND +1 on block. If he uses it repeatedly that effectively makes his D1 5 fames, faster than any normal move in the game. Once he starts, it is best you backdash and get some breathing room, as no move you attempt will win or even trade. Pushblock (like the guy above me mentioned) is also a great option, albeit at the cost of one bar of meter.

The strategy I've had the most success with against NW.

- Optimal spacing is this match-up is F23 range or mid-range. When he gets close chaos ensues; everything is fast, everything is + on block, and he has that stupidly fast overhead (B2) that leads to a third of your life bar.

- Superman's high priority mid-range moves naturally counteract NW's range in escrima mode. A tight ground game nets you solid damage and forces NW to take risks to even out the exchange. He will likely try to dash or jump hastily as a result. Remember that if you begin to dominate him on the ground he will likely take to the air in frustration, so AA him! NW is fundamentally a close range character, so don't let his projectiles and decent pokes fool you. Keep your guard up and try your best to not let him bullrush you.

- On that note, J3 in escrima beats Superman's D2 for free. Dash underneath him and AA from behind to teach him to stop. His j1 and 2 aren't as good though, so no worries.

- NW's wake-ups are sub-par, so if you get him on the defensive feel free to RTSD.

- If NW switches to staff mode and pokes back at you from range, there a few things you can do:
*His staff normals are good on block but a tad slow on start-up, so put your focus into whiff punishing with F23 as his staff retracts.
*Heat Zap > Ground Spark. If you get a single Heat Zap on-screen and NW ducks or blocks it, you can shoot another one before he can Ground Spark you. You can use this to either move into advantageous spacing or just shoot some more. If he reverts back to escrima alter your game plan accordingly.
So I just spent 4 hours playing against a strong Superman. Here are some of my personal notes. Granted, I'm not as knowledgeable as other members of these forums. None of the following is law, just my observations.

Rush down with Kali sticks hard. Use 112 to either send him to a corner, or pin him with block stun. My opponent was trying to Rising Grab me. I beat it out with 112 often. Commit to offensive play.

Use 112 to punish f23 breath f23. Let him know that it is not okay against this matchup.

Be aware of your meter use. We as Nightwing players will have a habit of meter burn staff spin. We will have to force Clark to use meter in the wager to avoid taking a 2 frame super. Make sure not to burn too much meter on trying to chip. Use just enough to maintain pressure. This will ensure we not only maintain the life lead but also the meter lead.

If Clark starts to spam lazers send him an Escrima DB2 MB for the knockdown. Close the distance with a rapid series of dash ins and start swinging.

Clark is a master at whiff punishing. Be aggressive in getting your block advantage. This ensures that we play to our character strengths. Any time when Clark is free to air – he is free to expose our characters greatest flaw. Our Lack of AA. Our lack of wakeup options.

I like using the string F213xx4xxdb2 MB b3. Between the B3 and the db2 MB is a 10 frame window where most character's only option is to jump back. Few characters have advancing strings of the priority and speed of Clark's F23. There's a two frame window that clark needs to recognize to punish this string. If you use this string, it's a big gamble against Clark.

Avoid blocking trait backed lazers. Duck the db3s, jump the db1s. Wait for the trait to wear itself out before advancing. Patience here.

B2 does not work in this match up. Seriously, our b2 spacing is Clark's f23 spacing. It's 15 frames to 8, we lose every time. I stopped using b2 in this matchup completely.

Be dirty. Be dirty and grimey as hell. If you're blocking for long, you're doing it wrong. Stryker's Island is really good for this matchup, the meter burn shotgun on left side is strong. Get some dumb stuff in with the turret as well.

I can't emphasize enough how important it is that you keep Superman blocking. Once he's free to air dash the matchup tips heavily in his favor. I found this matchup was much easier with Escrima, as Clark's air dash makes Staff Stance a Nightmare in staying in. Switching back and fourth is a must.

Any notes of your own would be appreciated. I had a great time breaking this matchup down.


[...]Her b23 is ridiculous. Half screen overhead into a string that's safe on block with little risk to herself unless you have a massive jump arc to get over it to her. The matchup isn't too bad once you get in but respecting that b2 makes that very difficult.
i play a WW frequently, this matchup gets alot easier once you know it, first off. you will eventually start seeing b23 , its good but it is frame disadvantage . ill usually block it and force him to block a b1( staff ) or backdash and do a db2 . learn her frames, learn when not to hit buttons , and once you have a knockdown, go ham. she cant handle his rushdown.
It's probably one of the most fun and interesting matchups in the game, due to both characters having so many tools, but only being able to selectively use them. Probably 5-5 because they both have tools for pretty much every situation. First note, respect her frames (especially when she's in Shield Stance) and you'll generally be okay. Make sure you don't jump on her too much either. She has really good d2s in both stances, most notably Lasso.

From what I've played of the matchup (which is a lot, btw) Staff vs. Lasso and Escrima vs. Shield are your optimal situations. However, note that it is dependent on how the match is going, too.

Overall, in Staff vs. Lasso, you will need those j2s and Flying Graysons to keep her out of the air (j2 is better though). Staff pound is kind of useless until you make her realize that going up there carries a heavy price. It doesn't help that she can TK air charge into you to punish it from fullscreen too. A more rush-heavy WW won't be as much of a threat while you're in Staff because you'll be able to live at a range where her only real option is b2. Also, if she has you fullscreen while you're in staff, just switch to Escrima and get back in there.

Vs. Shield stance, I know it's tempting to play the footsies game with her using Staff. "Ha, mine's bigger than yours!" Yeah yeah, we get it. But in this stance, Wonder Woman stays grounded. She is begging you to play that game on her terms because that's what the stance is made for. You don't go in raw with your Dick. You use Escrima's mobility and ground spark to make her come to you. From there, you can start the footsie game because the ball's in your court; she's playing your game. Whip out Staff when she tries to challenge you, and then blow her up for her mistakes.

Additionally, if she is at a life lead and goes into Shield stance, do not stay in Staff and try to zone her. Matter of fact, don't try to keep her out at all; go in. Here, you'll need the mobility and buttons (j3, d1, 1, f2, b2, u3, etc.) from Escrima to get something going. Shield stance makes it very easy to wait opponents out at a life lead. Don't let happen by playing too patiently. You'll be able to save some extra meter in this matchup, too, in order to pushblock Shield, because you won't be spending a lot on MB staff pound. That move is not nearly as useful here as it is in other matchups.

As far as wakeups go, the most common ones are Lasso Spin and Shield Bash. Lasso spin is fully punishable with pretty much whatever you want (iirc), but Shield Bash can be MB'ed for +frames. If you can bait a couple of Lasso Spins and punish her, you should be good on that front whenever you get a knockdown. But definitely just respect her wakeups in Shield unless you have a setup to reverse them, or she has no meter.

The best way to prepare for this matchup are to play heavily in one stance and see how you can deal with what each of WW's stances has to offer. I used to play straight Escrima or Staff matches against the local WW player to work on what possible answers I had in any given situation. But it really does come down to who is the better player and has more knowledge of how both characters work imo.


That's pretty much it off the top of my head.
 

KombatNerd

Justice 4 Firestorm
Downloadable Characters:
* parentheses is the opinion of KombatNerd and no one else.*

Lobo
Played against Big D's Lobo yesterday, and I learned a bit about the MU.

~Lobo is very meter dependent, meaning that clash scenarios are a bit in your favor.

~I've found that a keepaway Nightwing works well. Lobo cannot forward dash through ground spark, and WingDings will hit him out of it if you time it right/ beat his armor moves since they are multi-hitting.

Batgirl
I'm forseeing Batgirl to be a major pain in the ass. Just lost like 8 games against this guy just going for her 50/50 the entire time at the corner. Her rushdown feels better than NW's. You lose to her zoning hands down. Don't throw wingdings at all. Her bola has stupid blockstun so it's actually a frametrap if you block and try to dash in. Beware if you jump as she can trap you with her smokescreen to punish your jump. IRC 2 of her 3 wake-up moves is safe (i don't know can't seem to punish). Her air game is much better than yours. She can escape corner easily due to her air smokescreen.

This match, you have to go balls out to pressure her or you lose. You need to watch out for her wake-up though. Her jump-ins are pretty great too. Her j.3 is the same as NW's. I recommend escrima for this match-up. Try not to wake up with Escrima specials. EF tend to trade but it's the best option, Flip tend to miss as her strings move her forward. Groundspark might work? mb.b3 loses to her strings so don't try. Just push block. For staff stance, wake up with FG. You can use staff spin too but beware of baits. Do not jump towards her with reckless abandon. Her cartwheel has INSANE hitbox and doubles as an anti-air if she throws it while pressuring you.

btw this is me playing online with delay. literally 1-9 match-up :(
I deal with batgirl by using staff stance and staying outside of her b1 range. If I recall thats her farthest normal that she can use to start her offense. You can poke her with your staff normals outside of that range. Her cartwheel can be pushblocked before the high low mixup but if you can read it coming staff spin beats it clean. If she gets in pushblock. At full screen or near full screen I don't throw projectiles because of smoke bomb. Idk how useful this can be but you can catch a smokebomb with staff jb2 and get a full combo.

On an unrelated note she says "Watch this babe" when she is fighting NW lol.
Her Cartwheel's actually unsafe all the way around when it comes to followups. Don't listen to the frame data. If you block it, you just got a free 35-40%. Don't waste meter pushblocking that.

Other than that, you're right. Stay outside of b1 range with Staff and she can't really do a ton. That's the range you'll have to live at. And try to bait Smoke Bombs from her. If she gets too antsy with them, you can block and punish.


I went online for the first time last night since the Batgirl patch...she is definitely a scary character when you have no idea what to do AGAINST her. I knew about her vortex (I labbed with her) but I didn't really understand how to play AGAINST the character. Zoning with any weapon is not an option.

You have to play footsies with her here, and luckily for us, our footsies are superior. B2U3 (if you get caught in the vortex) can be punished b1 D1~MB ground blasts I do believe. Pretty much all of her wakeups are severely punishable as well, but you have to respect them. Tricky character, but I think as we get more experience with her, the match will become easier.

One other useful tip, she has no answer to staff mode d1. You want to get in on her and switch to staff and start abusing her. She has an 8f poke, and her fastest normal is a true high.

Scorpion (waste)

Zod

Martian Manhunter
-Teleport can be punished with b23 combo on block. (Escrima)
-Ground Blast can beat the start up of most of his moves on reaction. (Staff)
-When his trait is activated, avoid jumping into him. His 3 has an epic hit box.

MMH has zero threats outside of pretty close that hit low, so always block high. His zoning is really slow for the most part, so staff zoning does pretty well, but getting in his face is a good idea. He struggles to get people off of him without trait, and his normals are slower than yours. Once he starts teleporting react with mb3 or just solid reads after he teleports. See if he backdashes/swings/blocks, and react with whatever beats that option. Never, ever respect non MB'd orbs in neutral game. If he does that, just dash past them in escrima or keep zoning in staff. Non mb'd orbs are only good if you decide to respect them.


He has standing lows/overheads, so block low until you see his super slow overhead come out. Don't let him do 22b3 against you, that string is plus but the b3 part you can interrupt for free. If you get in on him, you can run pressure like normal, but watch for his bf3 on his wakeup. The vertical hitbox on it is really tough for NW to deal with, so unless you can cross him up early it will hit you on wakeup. The rest of his wakeups are very punishable/can be interrupted on startup. Martian has trouble with people up close, like I mentioned, so play patient on his wakeup, or blow it up with mb f/b3.

Zatanna
 

KombatNerd

Justice 4 Firestorm
I'll break the characters into the later posts once the roster is revealed. Just a heads up since the OP is cluttered!
 

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
Regarding the Lex Luthor MU

-112 is Lex's main string as of right now. You can easily duck the 1's and interrupt with d1xxMBGround Blast.

-If Lex chooses to end a combo with "Orbital Strike", you can Flying Grayson him before the missles hit, and I'm 90% sure he cannot escape it. (Tested online with a friend, so yeah ;_;)

This is day 1 info, so no guarantees :(.
 

NightwingDayZero

Truth, justice and the American way.
Don't bother picking up the Prima Strategy guide. A bunch of dated combos and worthless descriptions IE "B2 is an overhead!" **EDIT** if you are interested in other characters like Green Lantern, Batman, or Hawkgirl - those portions of the PRIMA guide are incredibly well written and informative. Whoever wrote the Nightwing portion was lackluster.

Was really hoping for some Matchup Strategy, frame traps, some sort of advanced stuff. Nothing. Just a reason to put pros behind the controller on a new game.
 

Saitsu

Noob
Don't worry, we can handle the MU shit ourselves.

Anyway, let's get to talking. I'll bring up a MU I had a problem with earlier, Wonder Woman. Her b23 is ridiculous. Half screen overhead into a string that's safe on block with little risk to herself unless you have a massive jump arc to get over it to her. The matchup isn't too bad once you get in but respecting that b2 makes that very difficult.
 
Any thoughts on getting in on zoners with tracking projectiles? I figure it just boils down to reading your opponent also...WTF do you do against Doomsday's unblockable dive special? The only thing that worked for me thus far was full meter reversal or b3MB or f3MB. The matchup isn't that hard if you maintain balance between staff and escrima
 

Saitsu

Noob
Any thoughts on getting in on zoners with tracking projectiles? I figure it just boils down to reading your opponent also...WTF do you do against Doomsday's unblockable dive special? The only thing that worked for me thus far was full meter reversal or b3MB or f3MB. The matchup isn't that hard if you maintain balance between staff and escrima
Just endure and move forward. Block and dash or block and walk. Best you can manage in Escrima. In Staff, land a good MB Ground Spark and then Flying Grayson in.

As for Doomsday that shit is free. Just MBDC through the dive. Congrats, the most free punish you'll have in this game.
 

Saitsu

Noob
Hey

I'm a pretty shitty NW but I wanna get very good w him and at this point declaring him as my main

All help is welcomed and ill help however I can
Dude, you sound like me when it comes to other games. Your NW is fine like I said earlier, at least for an early NW...which all of us have since it's only been a couple of days.

The one general thing to take away from your performance tonight is that you cannot be too reliant on either of his stances. Both are needed to take Nightwing to the level he needs to be at. You (and Guamo as well from the matches I saw at WNF) are a bit too overreliant on Staff Stance. I, personally, am a bit too overreliant on Escrima Stance. A healthy balance needs to be maintained to keep the opponent on their toes.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Dude, you sound like me when it comes to other games. Your NW is fine like I said earlier, at least for an early NW...which all of us have since it's only been a couple of days.

The one general thing to take away from your performance tonight is that you cannot be too reliant on either of his stances. Both are needed to take Nightwing to the level he needs to be at. You (and Guamo as well from the matches I saw at WNF) are a bit too overreliant on Staff Stance. I, personally, am a bit too overreliant on Escrima Stance. A healthy balance needs to be maintained to keep the opponent on their toes.
Appreciate the help

Talk to me about string in w escrima stance in MUs where the opponent is playing a character with really strong AA

I know a lot if tools I'm not using yet , not once did I connect b2 or d12 combos

But what are some suggestions in using escrima to open up opponent
 

Saitsu

Noob
Appreciate the help

Talk to me about string in w escrima stance in MUs where the opponent is playing a character with really strong AA

I know a lot if tools I'm not using yet , not once did I connect b2 or d12 combos

But what are some suggestions in using escrima to open up opponent
Alright well, dealing with a character with a good AA can be tough. Thankfully, we have Wing Dings. Solid projectile and it halts your air trajectory meaning it will fuck with AA timing. Between that and j3, the opponent will have an annoying time dealing with a jumping Nightwing.

B2 is a tool you should use a good amount. It's Nightwing's farthest reaching normal in Escrima, safe on block to everything except Kyrptonian Crush and leads to solid damage on hit.

D12 should be abused like his d1 in Staff. It's +8 on block (supposedly...it's definitely + though so it doesn't matter that much) and can cancel into Escrima Fury or just into Staff Stance (and from there into Staff Spin or MB Ground Blast).

Now the main way to open someone up in Escrima, other than frame traps and pressure brought with d12 is his Flip Kick. That is his money. If you're close enough (and you'll be surprised of how generous of a range you're given to do this) it will CROSSUP. If you've ever played or watched SFxT, watch a Hwoarang use an EX Dynamite Heel for the same effect. This shit is deadly. If you use it normally, it's 10% and a hard KD. MB it, the opponent just lost 35-40% AND gets put into a Hard KD again (if you decide to finish the followup combo with Flip Kick rather than another ender). This leads to a vortex where the opponent has to worry about either Flip Kick or F3. Whereas other character's pressure is done with high/low or a grab game, NW's is with Left/Right. And most will not see that coming.

He also has ways where you can finish juggles with f213, and cancel the last hit with Ground Spark and dash cancel that forward, granting a quick boost in momentum. Doing that into a Flip Kick sends opponents into fits.

Of course, at any time you can do strings or finish juggles going into Staff Stance and work that way too.

Lastly for now since I really want to go to sleep, REMEMBER THE AUTO WAYS THAT FORCE A STANCE SWITCH. What I mean is, I'm sure you've noticed that there are times where a certain action will do an automatic stance switch. I'll list them here.

Forced into Escrima:
Start of Match
Throw
Clash

Forced into Staff:
Dark as Night

Remember this if you do or do not want to enter certain stances at certain times.
 

XBlades

To Achieve, You must Believe
Premium Supporter
Opening opponents up in Escrima is pretty rough since everyone just blocks and waits till your are done with combo strings and just retaliates. I have been utilizing more low attacks to train my opponent to block low and not walk back from his position. Using attacks such as d3 or b+1,3 will help you control your opponents blocking patterns. In doing so, using advancing moves such b+1, neutral 3, or b+2 will help reach your opponent from sweep distance. Most of these strings are safe on block except b+1 in which you have to follow up with another 1 so he does a kick and its -1 on block in which gives you enough time to back dash, since back dashes are invulnerable in this game. You can do many things to set some strategies up after this string.

Staff Stance
b+1 is the real footsie check keeps your opponent in check at mid screen and you can decide what you want to do. though in this stance you can cancel in combo such as 1,f+1 projectile mb.. bnb.. footsie game is solid during this stance.. though slow and the up close game seems a little rough. This Stance is the best to be used during Counter zoning and mid screen footsies..imo
 
Good stuff guys. I've been working crazy overtime so this weekend will.be the first time I get to really sink my teeth into the game nd this info is great.
 
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