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Match-up Discussion Nightwing Matchup Discussion

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MrInsaynne

PG Coach Steve
Well, as it was mentioned earlier, don't judge that match in anyway from how I played. I just have a mental block against NW for the time being and need time to figure it out. I know that once I learn the spacing on his part for his normals it'll be easier to whiff punish him. But again, I don't know much right now.
 

NightwingDayZero

Truth, justice and the American way.
Well, as it was mentioned earlier, don't judge that match in anyway from how I played. I just have a mental block against NW for the time being and need time to figure it out. I know that once I learn the spacing on his part for his normals it'll be easier to whiff punish him. But again, I don't know much right now.

I trust you'll do better with experience.

You can watch Michaelangelo's approach to the MU tonight on my stream www.twitch.tv/NightwingDayZero

I may not be as fundamentally sound as CD Jr, but I know the MU quite well.
 

Sabin

Elder God
Premium Supporter
Well, as it was mentioned earlier, don't judge that match in anyway from how I played. I just have a mental block against NW for the time being and need time to figure it out. I know that once I learn the spacing on his part for his normals it'll be easier to whiff punish him. But again, I don't know much right now.


Yeah you could have probably punished him a lot better on the few times he did staff hop as well to punish jumps preemptively (he did it a few times, you ducked, no d2 punish.)

Thanks for the insight everyone though and good luck next event Insaynne, your aquaman has been getting more solid each event
 

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
Im curious how you xbox dicks do vs Jalenlamkin.. To me, he's the best hg on xb, and tbh, this mu doesn't feel nearly as horrid as most of you guys are saying it is..

Chongo
NightwingDayZero

@The D1Army
I've played Espio and @AspexiaDyslexia or whatever the fuck his name is a lot, imo it's 6-4 HG, which doesn't really mean anything. Just gotta work a little harder.
 

xKhaoTik

Kitana Kahn
KF definitely beats NW.

Escrima stance is absoultely useless in this MU. Wingdings are a no-no, the ground spark thing is too slow to zone with, and NW gets destroyed upclose in this stance. KF beats him anywhere on the screen when he's in this stance.

Staff stance is the way to go In this MU, and even then, its still not enough. He can zone if he starts it first, but if I zone first, I win the battle. Flying dick gets d2'd Into a reset, but doesn't do too much damage. Ex staff spin is a no-no as well. She also wins upclose.


The meterless vortex also fucks NW over in this match.
 

haketh

Noob
I think DS wins against NW 6-4, gotta be careful with zoning but I feel Stroke out footsies him, also DS gets to disrespect him on WU seeing how J. 3 beats all his WUs.

Any reasons it's thought that NW wins?
 

EMPEROR PRYCE

WAR SEASON "THE WEAK EXPOSED!"
KF definitely beats NW.

Escrima stance is absoultely useless in this MU. Wingdings are a no-no, the ground spark thing is too slow to zone with, and NW gets destroyed upclose in this stance. KF beats him anywhere on the screen when he's in this stance.

Staff stance is the way to go In this MU, and even then, its still not enough. He can zone if he starts it first, but if I zone first, I win the battle. Flying dick gets d2'd Into a reset, but doesn't do too much damage. Ex staff spin is a no-no as well. She also wins upclose.


The meterless vortex also fucks NW over in this match.

Hate to go against dick but I agree w this. Wingdings get slide under and d2 punish all day. It's always hard for nw. Although wingdings aren't everything, NWs normals get beat by slide a bit to hard. Nw has to play defensive in this match and its not easy.
 

AssassiN

Premium
Premium Supporter
KF definitely beats NW.

Escrima stance is absoultely useless in this MU. Wingdings are a no-no, the ground spark thing is too slow to zone with, and NW gets destroyed upclose in this stance. KF beats him anywhere on the screen when he's in this stance.

Staff stance is the way to go In this MU, and even then, its still not enough. He can zone if he starts it first, but if I zone first, I win the battle. Flying dick gets d2'd Into a reset, but doesn't do too much damage. Ex staff spin is a no-no as well. She also wins upclose.


The meterless vortex also fucks NW over in this match.

How does the meterless vortex fuck NW?
 

Sajam

Nightwing In Retirement
What do you guys think of the Doomsday, Killerfrost, and Deathstroke MUs?
Doomsday is 6-4 NW. Nightwing can shut him down with staff really well, and staff spin on wakeup absolutely bodies DD, since he has no way to really avoid it. When he's traited NW can make him block a staff spin and lots of his trait gets wasted. A lot of this matchup is going to be how well you can block and deal with his pressure, and if you have solid defense than NW should take it.

Frost is 4-6 in her favor. Staff gets bodied in the zoning battle, and escrima's normals are so slow that she can disrespect him when she goes in. You can play safe and do well in escrima though, and make it work once you knock her down and play patient on her wakeup. People still underestimate escrima for some reason and think it's ass, but it actually does alright in this matchup.

DS is 4-6 or 5-5. The reason I have it 4-6 in DS's favor is because he can gain and keep a lead easier than NW in this matchup. NW has to respect his j3, and if the DS knows how to deal with staff pound then the zoning game turns into a giant mind game on whether or not DS will jump after a blocked pound, dash, or just do guns. DS's wakeups also prevent NW from running any real flipkick setups, since anytime he goes for something both wakeups can beat his options free.

I'm so sad people still think staff is really good. It's strong in a few matchups, but lots of players have it figured out, and the rest are losing because of inexperience with it. Nobody should be getting beat by staff's gimmicks as much as they do, and it sucks that people overrate it's effectiveness so much. I guess some scenes just don't have strong NW players to practice against or something.
 

TheBoyBlunder

Nightwing for IGAU 2.
KF definitely beats NW.

Escrima stance is absoultely useless in this MU. Wingdings are a no-no, the ground spark thing is too slow to zone with, and NW gets destroyed upclose in this stance. KF beats him anywhere on the screen when he's in this stance.

Staff stance is the way to go In this MU, and even then, its still not enough. He can zone if he starts it first, but if I zone first, I win the battle. Flying dick gets d2'd Into a reset, but doesn't do too much damage. Ex staff spin is a no-no as well. She also wins upclose.


The meterless vortex also fucks NW over in this match.

I happen to played a lot of sets with some of the best Killer Frost players on PSN(jeez, I wish I remembered their names they're probably on the forum tho), my NW ain't the best but I can see how this is a tough match up for NW. Staff is really his only chance.

It's really without a doubt a 6-4 matchup in favor of Ms Frost, she's probably the best defensive character in the game. 6-4 is being kind too because Escrima is really weak against KF's strong zoning from all ranges.
 

14K

Noob
one thing i find very interesting aboutthe NW vs KF and i dunno if everyone does this but its a cute neat trick cause it works with a lot of wakeups that have similar "progressive" (by progressive i mean dash like wakeups or wakeups that have a foward moving momentum) is that if you find worself in staff mode and just came out of a combo against KF right, now you are yet to make her fear waking up so its still a frenzy of wakeup slides, generally i dont like to block the wakeup slides for one reason and i favor this trick to blocking the slide is because KF or other characters can still mash out and trade with your lets say jab or 1F2 so this trick avoids that circunstance... all you have to do is, just before the window for her to wakeup slide opens you do a jumpback 1, this will make sure the Jb1 hits and interrupts the slide even on wakeup...

for those wondering why this works, its pretty simple, wakeups in this game only have invincible active frames, at the first frames of the move and they only retain those very frames if your move connects to the opponents body, so when NW jumps back his 1 makes his body (hurtbox) lean back a bit, and he pushes his staff forward, the staff in this instance is a Hitbox only object doesnt have a hurtbox in it so NWs hitbox will connect to KF before her feet connect to NW body meaning she will have lost all of her invencible frames and your Jb1 will stop her slide on its tracks..

another character i love doing this to is against WW, that spinning wakeup move has a TON of invencible frames but if you do this you are mostly safe and can still continue pressure even if she just blocks cause when the Jb1 connects to a blocking opponent your jump loses all backward moving momentum, meaning instead of jumping back all the way once the tip of the staff connects the blocking opponent you will drop straight down to the grownd leaving you at mixup distance...
 

TheBoyBlunder

Nightwing for IGAU 2.
one thing i find very interesting aboutthe NW vs KF and i dunno if everyone does this but its a cute neat trick cause it works with a lot of wakeups that have similar "progressive" (by progressive i mean dash like wakeups or wakeups that have a foward moving momentum) is that if you find worself in staff mode and just came out of a combo against KF right, now you are yet to make her fear waking up so its still a frenzy of wakeup slides, generally i dont like to block the wakeup slides for one reason and i favor this trick to blocking the slide is because KF or other characters can still mash out and trade with your lets say jab or 1F2 so this trick avoids that circunstance... all you have to do is, just before the window for her to wakeup slide opens you do a jumpback 1, this will make sure the Jb1 hits and interrupts the slide even on wakeup...

for those wondering why this works, its pretty simple, wakeups in this game only have invincible active frames, at the first frames of the move and they only retain those very frames if your move connects to the opponents body, so when NW jumps back his 1 makes his body (hurtbox) lean back a bit, and he pushes his staff forward, the staff in this instance is a Hitbox only object doesnt have a hurtbox in it so NWs hitbox will connect to KF before her feet connect to NW body meaning she will have lost all of her invencible frames and your Jb1 will stop her slide on its tracks..

another character i love doing this to is against WW, that spinning wakeup move has a TON of invencible frames but if you do this you are mostly safe and can still continue pressure even if she just blocks cause when the Jb1 connects to a blocking opponent your jump loses all backward moving momentum, meaning instead of jumping back all the way once the tip of the staff connects the blocking opponent you will drop straight down to the grownd leaving you at mixup distance...

noted, I'm trying to incorporate JB1 more. It has great range, just a funny hitbox, as does J3.

do you feel safer in staff against KF? I tried NJ J2 in Escrima against her slide, risky. B2 is great, but whiffing it is painful because of it's recovery. I need to play this match up again, it's been a month and I haven't touch this game in two weeks until yesterday.

I wonder if JB1 in staff works against wake up Corps Charge or Superman's charging attack.
 

14K

Noob
noted, I'm trying to incorporate JB1 more. It has great range, just a funny hitbox, as does J3.

do you feel safer in staff against KF? I tried NJ J2 in Escrima against her slide, risky. B2 is great, but whiffing it is painful because of it's recovery. I need to play this match up again, it's been a month and I haven't touch this game in two weeks until yesterday.

I wonder if JB1 in staff works against wake up Corps Charge or Superman's charging attack.
it depends a lot on the KF im playing... usually KF players ar emost comun in a sense that they want to be in your face, atleast the ones i play like to "rush"down so i Staff play them cause i dont need the mobility to get in cause they come to me so staff is prominent unless i want a really tight mixup that will go from canceling staff into a crossup flipkick (i usually do this in corners where i can exploit interactables ...) if im paying "zooning KF" i go escrima makes it somehat easier to go around her projectiles...

Really good KF tha tmix it up i just play as i do normally with a lot of stance canceling and complex mixup games... the Jb1 i use a lot on her cause makes them respect that waking up is not safe and instead of just getting into a neutral situation on her you get a full combo punish...

also a nice use for JB1 is when you do D1.D1 into your mix up but some characters have enouth of a fast D1 or D2 like GL that they can trade or even win agaisnt you... Jb1 makes sure to punish such situations and conditions your opponent to stop mashing D2 on your block strings....

in reference to Corps Charge and Supes Charging atack. yes you can beat both but depends on how close you are to their body on the wakeupwindow... Corps charge is a bit harder but still possible, CC is really fast so it carries a lot of invencible frames and happens really quickly.. you need to calculate your distances really well... superman charge is easier to do it on... i do it a lot and its particularly good cause if your distance is nice it doesnt matter what wakeup superman does you will be either neutral or with a hit.. ex:

Rising grab will whiff your Jb1 and if done right you have a small window where you can get free pressure without him being able to do anything other than block

Ice Breath depends on your timing really, there is situations where you win others you will lose, if you move a bit further back before doing Jb1 both can whiff and youll be neutral with him ( also can happen depending ont he timing you can do another JF1 for pressure if he doesnt move)

Charging punch needs you do the jump earlier but not much... just enouth that you can do the 1 on the pick of the jump at its highest elevation so you can hit around his neck

this are the most comun wakeups for superman... if there is another i forgot let me know cause im not at home... cant remember every single on from the top of my head. Hope this is helpfull
 

Cosmic_Castaway

Flying Grayson
I made a video going over the GL/NW matchup, and figured some of you guys might find this useful:

Thank you for posting this. I played a GL in tournament on Saturday right after watching it, and I felt much more comfortable in the matchup. It still sucks because I don't get to play good GLs enough, and this one of those matchups where you really need constant exposure to it. But, I did get him to come to me the entire time, which was a huge change from the other Lanterns I'd fought prior. I felt like I was outplayed way more than there was a problem with my character.
 
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