Match-up Discussion Nightwing Matchup Discussion

[Miss Kanzuki]

Why are you ever staying close enough to allow flip kick to hit?

Lol I flip kick HG's that think staying in the air will save them..I just said I mained both...I speaking as a NW fighting HG

 

[TakeAChance]

I don't play doomsday, doomsday is my 5th. I actually play multiple nightwing players, offline and online.

UsedForGlue . His pounds ARE zoning tools, i have been playing against this character since day 1, i think i know what his tools are and how to use them. When zoners themselves cant zone nightwing back and have to resort to jumping, thats a zoning tool.

I can say the same thing about you, how exactly does ares need one projectile and why can't you NJ godsmack like the rest of the cast? You expect me to take your word just for saying " he cant do that". provide explanations for once.

Since I play joker... his jump attacks only give nightwing a hard time when theyre done from max height, he does not get a combo nor a setup after that, just 7%.

I don't see how hawkgirl beats nightwing that bad, i havent seen a single matchup specific setup being mentioned or any tips, Espio also seems to disagree.

Because Nightwing's staff jump arc is stupidly low, and his pounds have a long startup. That's why he has to respect the godsmack.


The hawkgirl matchup negates the staff completely, it negates 90% of his offense. He has to either j2 to hit her in the air at max height, or flip kick. Hawkgirl can literally run away the whole match.

 

[Espio]

Hop on now and we will play then.

The fact of the matter is this...Nightwing has to work very hard to even touch you. You never have to take risks against him. If Chongo can hit you with j3 you are doing it wrong. The hitbox on it is at his feet, which is low to the ground. At your highest point, J2 in staff can't hit you. The only thing that can is a max jump 2. That's all I can hit you with when you are high in the air. But, in order to that I have to not get hit by a mace, have you fly to the other side of the screen with ex mace toss, or have you charge me in the air. On your wakeup I can blow up the wing evade, or I can jump back on a read to blow up the mace charge with an escrima j3. If I do the jump back, guess what!? you get up for free and can continue to run away unopposed. You control the pace of the match at all times. How is that a 5-5? LBSH, maybe it's NOT an 8-2, but you can't honestly sit here and tell me that a matchup like that is even.

Let me put it this way, how is she beating you with just being in the air? Chucking maces that you can space out well and avoid in multiple ways?

I didn't mention staff, I'm aware he has a low jump in staff stance so you don't use that when she's high in the air. You talk like trait lasts forever and MB mace toss requires meter so if she's using that, this means when Nightwing gets in she has less meter to pushblock, which is great for him.


I think she wins for the record, I'm just saying other Hawkgirl players and Nightwing players who play the match up well think it could be even or very close to even.


Let's play right now.

 

[TakeAChance]

Let me put it this way, how is she beating you with just being in the air? Chucking maces that you can space out well and avoid in multiple ways?

I didn't mention staff, I'm aware he has a low jump in staff stance so you don't use that when she's high in the air. You talk like trait lasts forever and MB mace toss requires meter so if she's using that, this means when Nightwing gets in she has less meter to pushblock, which is great for him.


I think she wins for the record, I'm just saying other Hawkgirl players and Nightwing players who play the match up well think it could be even or very close to even.


Let's play right now.

Sure, hop on and add me. Take2Chance

 

[Qwark28]

Because Nightwing's staff jump arc is stupidly low, and his pounds have a long startup. That's why he has to respect the godsmack.


The hawkgirl matchup negates the staff completely, it negates 90% of his offense. He has to either j2 to hit her in the air at max height, or flip kick. Hawkgirl can literally run away the whole match.

one matchup where you have to use staff and actually think about what to do, you can negate his zoning, if his only ways in are punishable e.g tele or godsmack while eliminating his zoning and counterzoning, youre golden.

 

[TakeAChance]

Let me put it this way, how is she beating you with just being in the air? Chucking maces that you can space out well and avoid in multiple ways?

I didn't mention staff, I'm aware he has a low jump in staff stance so you don't use that when she's high in the air. You talk like trait lasts forever and MB mace toss requires meter so if she's using that, this means when Nightwing gets in she has less meter to pushblock, which is great for him.


I think she wins for the record, I'm just saying other Hawkgirl players and Nightwing players who play the match up well think it could be even or very close to even.


Let's play right now.

You get to build meter in the match tho. I don't. Guess what happens if I try to wing ding when you are in the air? I get a mace in my face.

If you play this right, you should always save your meter to use the mace to charge to the other side of the screen. I always have to chase you, which is exactly what hawkgirl wants. Or so I gather...

If there was ever a matchup where a character played exactly to hawkgirls strengths, it would be this one.

 

[TakeAChance]

one matchup where you have to use staff and actually think about what to do, you can negate his zoning, if his only ways in are punishable e.g tele or godsmack while eliminating his zoning and counterzoning, youre golden.

Lone Matchup? If usedforglue is beating you just by doing staff pounds, you need to level the fuck up. I can't play you reliably online, our connection is too shitty

 

[TakeAChance]

snippet

What's your XBL name?

 

[Espio]

TakeAChance just add Espio872 on PSN because it's not letting me add you.

Edit: Chance I do not have Xbox lol.

 

[TakeAChance]

TakeAChance just add Espio872 on PSN because it's not letting me add you.

Edit: Chance I do not have Xbox lol.

LAAAAAAME lol I don't have PS3

 

[Qwark28]

Lone Matchup? If usedforglue is beating you just by doing staff pounds, you need to level the fuck up. I can't play you reliably online, our connection is too shitty

Yet again you assume, stop assuming that i dont know how to deal with just for just a second will ya? its pretty insulting to the other player actually, saying a tool is good does not equal one doesnt know how to fight against it.

i tagged ufg because he understands how the character works.

you still havent explained anything about any matchup i quoted you about and you continue to be condescending.

 

[Espio]

LAAAAAAME lol I don't have PS3

That's a shame you don't because I'd gladly play you to help you out :/.


I hope you find a good Hawkgirl player so you can get a lot of consistent Hawkgirl experience because I can assure you that the Hawkgirl players like Eternal Blaze, Aspyxia Dislexia and the Nightwing players like some in this thread and Chongo, who think it's not too bad are not going to steer you wrong on the match up, once you get it down it won't be that bad at all.

She still might win, but I can assure you it's not this lopsided 2-8 match up in her favor .

 

[TakeAChance]

Yet again you assume, stop assuming that i dont know how to deal with just for just a second will ya? its pretty insulting to the other player actually, saying a tool is good does not equal one doesnt know how to fight against it.

i tagged ufg because he understands how the character works.

you still havent explained anything about any matchup i quoted you about and you continue to be condescending.

Then you are not reading my posts.

You talked about Ares and asked why I needed to respect godsmack, I told you, and you retorted with "LOL YOU HAVE TO THINK"

You asked about Hawkgirl, and I told you that it's almost impossible for dick to touch her when she is played right. You ignored it.

I also told you that Nightwings D1 was adjusted last patch...something you said in another thread you didn't even play with yet.

I am sorry that I am not explaining it well enough for you.

I am sorry, I just can't continue this. We will just have to agree to disagree.

Europe and Greece rule!

 

[Qwark28]

Then you are not reading my posts.

You talked about Ares and asked why I needed to respect godsmack, I told you, and you retorted with "LOL YOU HAVE TO THINK"

You asked about Hawkgirl, and I told you that it's almost impossible for dick to touch her when she is played right. You ignored it.

I also told you that Nightwings D1 was adjusted last patch...something you said in another thread you didn't even play with yet.

I am sorry that I am not explaining it well enough for you.

I am sorry, I just can't continue this. We will just have to agree to disagree.

Europe and Greece rule!

And I responded, so did Espio, you didn't respond after that. I didn't just say you have to think, i explained what you counter, how and what ares has to do to counter that.

Nightwings D1 change only effects 2 things, backdashes and the opponents options after they block a d1.

Keep being insulting.

 

[Metzos]

TakeAChance, if you thought pre-patched NW didnt win against DD, then you were playing the MU all wrong man. Like seriously. In the end you are going to tell us that NW needs buffing. And, yes, saying " Europe and Greece rule" in a sarcastic tone doesnt do you any good either. If you dont like what you are reading then either try responding politely or dont bother answering at all. Interactables alone dont give you a free win and even so, the opponent player has the brains to counter-pick a stage if he loses due to interactables.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

TakeAChance, if you thought pre-patched NW didnt win against DD, then you were playing the MU all wrong man. Like seriously. In the end you are going to tell us that NW needs buffing. And, yes, saying " Europe and Greece rule" in a sarcastic tone doesnt do you any good either. If you dont like what you are reading then either try responding politely or dont bother answering at all. Interactables alone dont give you a free win and even so, the opponent player has the brains to counter-pick a stage if he loses due to interactables.

I talked to Rico about the NW DD MU, DD wins with MB shoulder charge. DD gets in and does what he wants. The MU is in DD's favor.

Also TakeAChance the way I play against Hawkgirl is to stay in Escrima and just db2 cancel with backdash. When Hawkgirl misses a mace toss, I quickly stance switch Flying Grayson to close the gap and try for a j2 to swat her out of the sky. The key is getting her to miss a mace toss. She can get out by MB'ing her mace toss.

How does Hawkgirl win the matchup?

Cancel all strings into wing evade 3 d1. Her d1 is neutral, but has better range than staff d1 and better frames than Escrima.

Mace toss blows up traditional means of advancing. A smart Hawkgirl WILL win in long sets. NW has to take risks just to get close.

NW has to work to get Hawkgirl in the corner. Hawkgirl just has to inch forward in the air, building meter and forcing us to eat chip.

She can compete in damage output at mid screen and does very serious corner combos while maintaining meter advantage.

I'm interested in hearing what RunwayMafia has to think about the MU. We played some very long sets at EVO. P.s. thanks for the Catwoman primer. I applied nothing you taught me in tournament

 

[TakeAChance]

TakeAChance, if you thought pre-patched NW didnt win against DD, then you were playing the MU all wrong man. Like seriously. In the end you are going to tell us that NW needs buffing. And, yes, saying " Europe and Greece rule" in a sarcastic tone doesnt do you any good either. If you dont like what you are reading then either try responding politely or dont bother answering at all. Interactables alone dont give you a free win and even so, the opponent player has the brains to counter-pick a stage if he loses due to interactables.

I have never said pre patched doomsday won...and what are you even talking about?

Perhaps you should follow your own advice? This convo was dead. Obviously some disagreements. its a matchup chart, it's going to happen. Just agree to disagree.

Also, our forums have been truly amazing when it comes to NIghtwings nerfs. He hasn't gotten directly buffed, but only minorly nerfed. We didn't bitch, we didn't moan, we rolled with it...You and Qwark seem to have this problem comprehending that Nightwing just isn't a god tier character in this game. I have no doubt UsedForGlue is good, he is good with everyone he touches, but online is not the place to figure this out.

In all honesty, I am done with this topic. I will just continue to talk to my fellow Nightwing Brethern and learn as I play. You guys can just sit there in Nightwing sulk land when MB charge gets you past all of his zoning, His dash is quick enough to avoid the pounds, and once you knock Nightwing down, he has to respect your crossups (in staff stance). The only thing Doomsday can't do against nightwing is d1 d1 d1 d1.

 

[RunwayMafia]

I talked to Rico about the NW DD MU, DD wins with MB shoulder charge. DD gets in and does what he wants. The MU is in DD's favor.

Also TakeAChance the way I play against Hawkgirl is to stay in Escrima and just db2 cancel with backdash. When Hawkgirl misses a mace toss, I quickly stance switch Flying Grayson to close the gap and try for a j2 to swat her out of the sky. The key is getting her to miss a mace toss. She can get out by MB'ing her mace toss.

How does Hawkgirl win the matchup?

Cancel all strings into wing evade 3 d1. Her d1 is neutral, but has better range than staff d1 and better frames than Escrima.

Mace toss blows up traditional means of advancing. A smart Hawkgirl WILL win in long sets. NW has to take risks just to get close.

NW has to work to get Hawkgirl in the corner. Hawkgirl just has to inch forward in the air, building meter and forcing us to eat chip.

She can compete in damage output at mid screen and does very serious corner combos while maintaining meter advantage.

I'm interested in hearing what RunwayMafia has to think about the MU. We played some very long sets at EVO. P.s. thanks for the Catwoman primer. I applied nothing you taught me in tournament

I'm at work so I can't go into great detail...but yes, you are spot on. Quite frankly there just isn't much he can do against her...he needs to get her in the corner and keep her grounded. It's 6-4 HG...at least.

 

[Chongo]

Have we finally accepted that HG isn't 2-8 yet?

Also NW-Bane is 7-3.

 

[Metzos]

I have never said pre patched doomsday won...and what are you even talking about?

Perhaps you should follow your own advice? This convo was dead. Obviously some disagreements. its a matchup chart, it's going to happen. Just agree to disagree.

Also, our forums have been truly amazing when it comes to NIghtwings nerfs. He hasn't gotten directly buffed, but only minorly nerfed. We didn't bitch, we didn't moan, we rolled with it...You and Qwark seem to have this problem comprehending that Nightwing just isn't a god tier character in this game. I have no doubt UsedForGlue is good, he is good with everyone he touches, but online is not the place to figure this out.

In all honesty, I am done with this topic. I will just continue to talk to my fellow Nightwing Brethern and learn as I play. You guys can just sit there in Nightwing sulk land when MB charge gets you past all of his zoning, His dash is quick enough to avoid the pounds, and once you knock Nightwing down, he has to respect your crossups (in staff stance). The only thing Doomsday can't do against nightwing is d1 d1 d1 d1.

You kept saying that DD can compete against NW up close when he cant. Thats the point. Did you see me mention anything about his staff pounds ? I have done that already in our latest tournament in Greece, and that was almost 2,5 months ago. DD's dash rocks against pounds and against projectiles with zero traveling time in general. I even posted it in the DD MU discussion thread with a video showing it. My problem was his d1 spam fest and when i mentioned it to you, you pretty much, dash the staff pounds, meaning you didnt provide any answers to that problem, cause there werent any. So plz stop pretending to be annoyed with this matter when you clearly didnt even sit down to talk it out with me. I dont care what you and Qwark discussed, thats your guys problem. Point being NW's d1 was stupid as hell before the latest patch and there was not solution against it. Period.

EDIT: After a hard knock down if NW wakes up with db3, and he will cause its his best wake up in staff mode because its both safe and has full invincibility, DD's crossup will get blown up, cause he gets hit while airborne by db3. That move has 360 degrees hit box.

 

[Metzos]

I talked to Rico about the NW DD MU, DD wins with MB shoulder charge. DD gets in and does what he wants. The MU is in DD's favor.

Rico ? You mean Rico Suave ? Last time i checked Rico Suave mained BA and not DD or NW if i remember correctly. The thing is that MB Venom is a way to get in, not to stay in. NW's pokes and normals in general have better frame advantage and are faster than DD's. Just because Rico said it, doesnt mean its correct.

 

[TakeAChance]

Rico ? You mean Rico Suave ? Last time i checked Rico Suave mained BA and not DD or NW if i remember correctly. The thing is that MB Venom is a way to get in, not to stay in. NW's pokes and normals in general have better frame advantage and are faster than DD's. Just because Rico said it, doesnt mean its correct.

That's a Universal problem. No different than WW vs Doomsday.

It's +3 now. Pushblock if you want me off you or read when I am going to do a string. He can't do one safely anymore. If I get predictable with d1 d1 string you can blow up the string with d1 earthshaker and start your oki.

Nightwing wins the matchup, I get it, it's hard for you I understand.

 

[Qwark28]

Just to be clear, im not complaining about the spark, just saying theyre not the shitty things ppl make them out to be.

 

[Metzos]

That's a Universal problem. No different than WW vs Doomsday.

It's +3 now. Pushblock if you want me off you or read when I am going to do a string. He can't do one safely anymore. If I get predictable with d1 d1 string you can blow up the string with d1 earthshaker and start your oki.

Nightwing wins the matchup, I get it, it's hard for you I understand.

No shit D1Wing wins the MU.

 

[TakeAChance]

No shit D1Wing wins the MU.

Good, so can we be done here?

I can't wait until you witness d1 woman lol