Konsider the Following: Ep. 3 -- Podcast Ft. LotF, King Hippo, Coolwhip, Saucy and Home Lee

[EdFig81]

Sorry for the wait everyone! We are learning and growing at this at the same time so please pardon our dust as make improvements.

Anyways...On this weeks episode of Konsider the Following, we are hosted by none other than last weeks winner Cool Whip! Will Homelee be the loser yet again? Does Saucey Jack break his streak as the "Bridesmaid, never the Bride"? Will King Hippo overcome his terrible showing last week? Does LOTF finally keep time stamps? We debut a new segment called Bill or Thrill!

BTW. This episode was going to be out on Sunday night but we realized we had a segment talking about the KIT online tournament by Clark Luther. You will hear us mention it in the intro but I had to edit it out (through the help of @Pig Of The Hut ). It just wasn't relevant anymore because we were talking about it as if it wasn't going to happen. HUGE BLOW UP ON US. See if you can figure out where the ghost edits were made. First person to post gets a shout out on next weeks episode.

http://www.mediafire.com/listen/dyybyay3u32j3bd/KTFep3_new.mp3

Timestamps:
Screw you haha...no seriously the edits I made made them all useless. I'll do better next time TYM...I promise.
@KingHippo
@GGA Saucy Jack
@coolwhip
@HomeLee1121
@CrimsonShadow
@Pig Of The Hut
@Blind_Ducky
@cR_whiteboi
@GGA 16 Bit
@GGA Max
@Hysteria
@GGA pimpimjim
@Revolver
@Slips
@WoundCowboy
@Mr. Mileena
@K7L33THA

Looking forward to the stream. Again glad to see what u r all doing.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Looking forward to the stream. Again glad to see what u r all doing.

Huh? Thanks?

 

[coolwhip]

@CrimsonShadow why aren't you in a Thanksgivingy mood?

 

[Phosferrax]

Her tools
Zoning - rings are 30 frames start up -8 on block unless meter burned. Lots of recovery on both.
Trance- negative as hell and plenty of recovery
Teleport - 18 frames of recovery making it easy to punish, in all situations
Strings - no range, s3 puts you at disadvantage , 23 frame over head and lows that are easy to distinguish , getting solid hits are a pain. Air Normals have very awkward hit boxes and often lose in the air to air game.

Have you ever tried playing Zatanna? It's not an easy thing to do and be good with her.

Sinestro also looks pretty bad if you just quote frame data. Hell, Aquaman looks bad if you just quote frame data.

Plus, rings are -8 point blank.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

I'm so glad @GGA Saucy Jack has the exact same view as me on match up numbers.
Match up numbers have no place on here and do no good, they only exist to serve egos.
What matters is the strategy discussion per match up.

I have been feeling this for awhile now. When you think about it MU numbers are pretty arbitrary. For example, let's say in MKX Wound Cowboy and Noobe both choose the same main. After months of grinding the MU Wound has it as 2-8 for his character and noobe has that same exact MU as 4-6. Both have it as a losing MU but them having different numbers could lead to pointless arguing between people that actually agree it is a losing MU!

When MKX drops when I talk MUs I will try and use just 3 terms to cut down on pointless arguing.

Even/Close to even
Advantage MU
Kenshi vs Jade territory

I strongly agree with @KingHippo and @GGA Saucy Jack's statements about movement and normals in MKX. Instead of dashing around and attempting silly week one combos, I believe it will strongly benefit my fundamentals in the game to get a firm hold on my character's mobility

A number of people have mentioned movement being very important. Day 1 MKX I think movement is what I am going to work on 2nd only to choosing what character I want to play.

No beef, everyone on TYM is awesome. Even Myles. I enjoy arguing my opinions with Coolwhip & others.

Ribbz if you ever lose an argument just play the "I'm way more handsome than you" card. I'll support it.

 

[Protagonist_1]

I'm so glad @GGA Saucy Jack has the exact same view as me on match up numbers.
Match up numbers have no place on here and do no good, they only exist to serve egos.
What matters is the strategy discussion per match up.

@GGA Saucy Jack Fully agree on this. It doesn't do me much good seeing if a match-up is 4-6, 3-7, or 2-8 (Cyborg player). What matters, to me, are my options, and what I should be doing in the match up to have the best possible chance of winning. Generally, I would say for every match up you would need a "gameplan" and match up numbers do not help with that; match-up discussion does. A lot of times, it may prevent players from even exploring a match-up further (bro that's a "2-8", put the controller down).

Some of these elements of a gameplan can include:

(NOTE: Have a match-up you know about and see if you have explored the answers to these questions)
What can I punish in this matchup?
What's the max punish I can get-off a punishable move?
What's the easiest (realistic) punish I can get off a punishable move?
What range should I stay in to have the most success in the matchup?
Does this position change if my opponent has trait? Meter?
Should I focus more on putting my opponent in the corner?
What juggle combos/normals can push my opponent in the corner?
Can I anti-air my opponents jump-in attacks? Which one's? From what range? Can I use normals to do this?
How easily can my opponent anti-air me?
Can I bait the anti-air? Can I punish it?
What move should I look out for the moment the game starts?
How can I punish this move?
What my best options when the game starts?
What normals can make my character look unsafe, and bait a whiff punish in the neutral game? (fast recovery moves)


I feel when reading matchup charts or numbers, most of these questions go unanswered. The result is a missed opportunity for not only tourney players, but players also learning the game, to have an general understanding when approaching a matchup and to build a foundation off of that. The questions mentioned above only skim the surface of matchup discussion by the way, which is why it's so important these questions be answered and evaluated.

 

[RiBBz22]

I have been feeling this for awhile now. When you think about it MU numbers are pretty arbitrary. For example, let's say in MKX Wound Cowboy and Noobe both choose the same main. After months of grinding the MU Wound has it as 2-8 for his character and noobe has that same exact MU as 4-6. Both have it as a losing MU but them having different numbers could lead to pointless arguing between people that actually agree it is a losing MU!

When MKX drops when I talk MUs I will try and use just 3 terms to cut down on pointless arguing.

Even/Close to even
Advantage MU
Kenshi vs Jade territory



A number of people have mentioned movement being very important. Day 1 MKX I think movement is what I am going to work on 2nd only to choosing what character I want to play.



Ribbz if you ever lose an argument just play the "I'm way more handsome than you" card. I'll support it.

Oh dude I definitely will, I just haven't lost an argument on TYM yet...

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Oh dude I definitely will, I just haven't lost an argument on TYM yet...

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Sinestro also looks pretty bad if you just quote frame data. Hell, Aquaman looks bad if you just quote frame data.

Plus, rings are -8 point blank.

You're right I'm only imaging that it takes her forever and a day to cock back the ring before she casually throws said ring at the opponent.
It's still negative even if spaced out.

But you know frame data shouldn't be taken too seriously now.

 

[Slips]

Just to make a correction, we wouldn't where shirts that say "The Lou". We'd wear shirts that say "The Louters".

Too soon?

 

[KingHippo]

I was gonna say "Evoloution" but that's better.

 

[EdFig81]

Huh? Thanks?

I meant listening to the show. fucking long island ice teas heh

 

[Protagonist_1]

Damn near died of laughter at the part where slips pedigrees 16bit through a table LOL

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I agree that Zatanna gets up played by some people, she is good but if she didn't lose to almost all the top tiers, got mopped by the two best characters in the game and had better normals she would be top 10, she is low - mid tier IMO.

 

[BillStickers]

So...you want a neutral on block trance and +on block rings?

I mean...come on. Of course your trance is negative. That's common sense, not a talking point for downplay.

Yeah, seriously! I mean, who would play a game with safe full-screen combo starters and plus-on-block projectiles?

 

[ryublaze]

@Red Reaper we got mixed up again

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Just to make a correction, we wouldn't where shirts that say "The Lou". We'd where shirts that say "The Louters".

Too soon?

Wear*
Slips please

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Wear*
Slips please

Well he is from the Lou

 

[Red Reaper]

@Red Reaper we got mixed up again

Haha. What part? Timestamp??

 

[Laos_boy]

I like tom. Butif he's emo I just can't stand his constant self put downs. I like his rants. But it does get repetitive. If anything m2daveshould a guest a use its davr

 

[The PantyChrist]

Someone please make timestamps, I need to know if this podcast interests me or not

also, if home lee joins an asian wu tang gang then is he homie lee?

He's the Lza

 

[Killusion]

I have only watched the first Lord of the Rings movie, is that bad?

Great show guys! Bill or Thrill was a nice segment, and liked that there was no timer this time around!
Honestly Vandy would be a interesting guest, but come on now. If you are not going to have Tom Brady on as a guest you should at least get M2Dave or Playing2Win.

 

[JTB123]

Just finished and I really enjoyed the episode guys, I like the format you have. Really glad you mentioned the reactable point too, I honestly don't think there is much that is 100% reactable in this game. I still hit people with Grundy's B1 or F1 and they have completely different animations and are 18+ frames. Reacting to something when you're sat there in training mode waiting for it and reacting to it in a match are completely different.

 

[Phosferrax]

You're right I'm only imaging that it takes her forever and a day to cock back the ring before she casually throws said ring at the opponent.
It's still negative even if spaced out.

But you know frame data shouldn't be taken too seriously now.

Of course it's negative though, it was hardly going to be positive was it? That's not a talking point at all.

Like I said, Sinestro and Aquaman have moves that are far more negative, but until you actually look at the move and not just the number beside the block advantage description it is pointless.

 

[Phosferrax]

Making them plus or neutral wouldn't exactly make them better.

Of course it would. Imagine Shang Tsung if none of his skulls were plus on block.

Her zoning is hardly the best in the game and has been a bit overrated but it's still good. It's easy to say 'rings are slow and negative', but they're really not that negative compared to others, and they hit mid and can be used to anti air.

But that's still not the point when she also has a mid-hitting tracking move that leads to a combo into a vortex, a great teleport for runaway, and trait, all to complement her zoning.