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Breakthrough - Raiden F1 being a high now redundant, Quan has a 6f D1

RM NoBrows

Supah hawt fiyah
I don't understand how this is even an argument. Every single fast hitting (7 frame or less) normal in this game that was -2 on block or less, got nerfed. It was a 6 f mid that was -2. So you had to have an 8 frame or faster mid to get out of it. Quan chis 6f d1 is - 8 on block. Raiden had stupid pressure with that. Along with Kung jin with his pre latch 11 and f3, both of which were neutral on block. same with predators 21 string. Shit thats that fast, should not be close to neutral or you have braindead pressure that requires no execution to do. Raiden could do f21 pressure and go into a 50 50 after that against most of the cast pre patch, but quan chi has a 6f d1 JUST to get out of pressure. Stop.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
You can cite a source for this?

A press release from NRS?

Something written in the patch notes?
Nrs is not going to knock to your door to tell you these things. Everyone knows why FC was nerfed, it's just obvious.
The success of djt especially vs Quan was one of the main reasons. Quan got tools to avoid that after that happened, so speedbag should improve now. Nerfing a character cause of a bad matchup is just stupid.
 

FinalBoss_FGC

Day -4MONTHS Dual Jin main
The character has a 6f move.

I don't care if its low, mid, or high...it'll punish a lot of shit in the game on block and interrupt some small holes in pressure, too.

Idk why you think a 6f high is pointless just cuz Quan has a 6f low. Still one of the fastest and best normals in the game.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Nrs is not going to knock to your door to tell you these things. Everyone knows why FC was nerfed, it's just obvious.
The success of djt especially vs Quan was one of the main reasons. Quan got tools to avoid that after that happened, so speedbag should improve now. Nerfing a character cause of a bad matchup is just stupid.
No.

Paulo was at the tournament where DJT used Fisticuffs vs Sonic Fox in Grand Finals.

If you could take off the tin hat for a sec, you might see that Paulo can make decisions all on his own.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
The character has a 6f move.

I don't care if its low, mid, or high...it'll punish a lot of shit in the game on block and interrupt some small holes in pressure, too.

Idk why you think a 6f high is pointless just cuz Quan has a 6f low. Still one of the fastest and best normals in the game.
They're acting like he doesn't have an OH starter that causes people to standblock. They can use it then.

High does not equal useless. Condition people. Jeez.
 

DT Tundra

Steam Name:Tundra_Arctos Twitter: @tundraarctos
In my opinion F12 should have been made slightly more negative on block rather than making F1 a high.
Hes not asking for it to return to pre nerf status as it was, just asking for adjustments. Having it be more negative sounds ok to me. I think having stay 6f might be too much though. maybe make f1 7 or 8. As it is,it seems like it is too easy to just low profile everything raiden has.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
No.

Paulo was at the tournament where DJT used Fisticuffs vs Sonic Fox in Grand Finals.

If you could take off the tin hat for a sec, you might see that Paulo can make decisions all on his own.
And...? Fisticuffs was nerfed after that tournament and after Quans being raped. And by the way, the Erron-Fisti matchup was fair in my view. Erron had his 50s, Fisti the speedbag. Falling in the corner was almost dead for both of them. Nobody complained there.
I didn't say Quan was the only reason of the nerf, but was the main focus of complaints (especially from Quan mains that couldn't stand having a bad matchup even when their char is top tier). Probably Paulo didn't care about the tears, and it was a coincidence. Sure :)
 
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GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
I'm sure you all remember Dizzy winning Combo Breaker with Thunder God Raiden, and MIT's F12 antics without real in depth knowledge of the character. Way back then, certain "swine" within our community decided to use their voice and hold that they have in terms of opinions (not facts), over the mindless, sheeple within this community, in an agenda against the Thunder God. Most likely because at that time (and still to this day) they complain about how bad their character supposedly is regardless of the numerous buffs they received (I personally dubbed that patch MKX: Bacon edition), because at that given time Raiden was in his rightful place as a top character and some people just couldn't accept it, also Kenshi just happened to not be top 2 in this game.

Onto my point. The main selling point for Raiden's F1 being made a high was the fact that quan chi could not escape loopable pressure in the corner due to having slow pokes, which is understandable. Outside of Quan Chi I do not recollect any other characters having problems poking out of this. NOW, Quan Chi's D1 is now 6f meaning he can escape this loop so in essence this particular patch change has been made redundant in the most recent patch since that was the only logical reason to nerf this essential mid. Now Raiden has to deal with characters like Cassie who not only low profile everything, but cause his only other, more useless mid in B1(1) to whiff on the second hit because of retarded hitboxes. In my opinion F12 should have been made slightly more negative on block rather than making F1 a high. If F1 has to be a high, than at least make say standing 2 or 3 a mid in it's place, the only other options are b11 which whiffs on low profile happy characters and yoloing NJP like an idiot, also the nerfed B2 which half the time isn't worth throwing out unless you have them conditioned to block low.

Discuss.

@colt
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
No one likes the idea of a 6f mid. Even though currently raiden picks from really negative down pokes, f2 that could be profiled, or f4 to be lows or end up -3 right next to his opponent. Neutral pretty much boiled down to one off button presses that can sometimes feel like a straight up guess. (Probably karma from the b2 OS.)

Just some perspective, when f1 got changed, there were a few other solutions available for the f12 problem. And when the change did happen all MoS and Displacer got was a punishable low string. If f1 confirms were beating you it probably was more you fault than anything else.

I'd love f1 to be a mid again but everyone seems afraid of raiden having a quick normal punish. Because the only time f1 is a threat is if Raiden is right next to you not doing a mixup. (Anyone know what Raiden would actually be punishing with f1?)

Imo base Raiden needs some things changed around to make his nuetral a bit better.

TG could probably do with a damage buff (I don't play the character but I think he got nerfed twice when he was stupid strong).

Displacer is probably fine after base raiden changes.

MoS (the raiden I play) needs a lot of help and the only way he'd get it is from someone other than NRS designing him.
 

STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks
Right coz this makes sense.... WTF. 6F mid, sure let's "kill" Kenshi (for those who don't know, fastest Kenshi fastest normal is 8F d1) even more coz he isnt "dead" enough yet.

And some say that Kenshi players are the biggest crybabies if so then people who ask for buffs for characters like Raiden or Quan Chi(rofl) should receive a special kind of reward....

TYM these days....
You got tons of armour you don't need pokes
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
You got tons of armour you don't need pokes
Right vs Raiden which has like tons of armor breaking strings.... Makes sense, why the hell i would need pokes. ;)

Nothing personal coz i like you but im kinda laughing when people try to reason their unreasonable buff req. with such argument. Lets give an already good character like TG Raiden, 6f mid then lets not forget about armored wake up for "mid tier" Quan in Summoner coz why the hell not?

But on other hand lets not change Kenshi, he's FINE. He got ton of armor, no need for anything else.
 

roosTakk

Chode Juggler
Yeah as soon as I saw sheeple used in what seemed like a serious point I went ahead and checked out mentally
 

DreadKnight1

Beaten, by this mere man
Was that the only reason it was nerfed? I thought it was made high so a 6 frame move didn't jail into a free electricity string? I could be wrong though.
The electricity strings aren't even a threat anymore.they still build good meter however they leave him negative and don't do that much chip-essentially yes you took some damage and he built meter but now he's raidens back in neutral where she's pretty bad...
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I'm sure you all remember Dizzy winning Combo Breaker with Thunder God Raiden, and MIT's F12 antics without real in depth knowledge of the character. Way back then, certain "swine" within our community decided to use their voice and hold that they have in terms of opinions (not facts), over the mindless, sheeple within this community, in an agenda against the Thunder God. Most likely because at that time (and still to this day) they complain about how bad their character supposedly is regardless of the numerous buffs they received (I personally dubbed that patch MKX: Bacon edition), because at that given time Raiden was in his rightful place as a top character and some people just couldn't accept it, also Kenshi just happened to not be top 2 in this game.

Onto my point. The main selling point for Raiden's F1 being made a high was the fact that quan chi could not escape loopable pressure in the corner due to having slow pokes, which is understandable. Outside of Quan Chi I do not recollect any other characters having problems poking out of this. NOW, Quan Chi's D1 is now 6f meaning he can escape this loop so in essence this particular patch change has been made redundant in the most recent patch since that was the only logical reason to nerf this essential mid. Now Raiden has to deal with characters like Cassie who not only low profile everything, but cause his only other, more useless mid in B1(1) to whiff on the second hit because of retarded hitboxes. In my opinion F12 should have been made slightly more negative on block rather than making F1 a high. If F1 has to be a high, than at least make say standing 2 or 3 a mid in it's place, the only other options are b11 which whiffs on low profile happy characters and yoloing NJP like an idiot, also the nerfed B2 which half the time isn't worth throwing out unless you have them conditioned to block low.

Discuss.

@colt
Got word of your passive aggressive bullshit in this thread

You should remember just because you LOVE raiden doent mean that you are or will ever or ever were good w him in mk9 and MKX. In fact you will always be the type of player you've always been, a non threat

Just because you live that character doesn't mean you are the raiden community voice

You've never done anything to gain that respect in or outside the game and furthermore I've never played a worse raiden in either game.

the results you never achieved but think u sniffed have you confused and has led you down a jealous path.

Last thing, raiden could get buffed or we could remove the HD and I would body your free ass from here to kingdom fucking come so if you wanna get passive aggressive w my name tag me next time and bow up w me in a MM

Until then focus on you and your game and not what my character needs or our character community

Peace Wizz
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
"Raiden was in his rightful place as a top character" what the fuck? Why should raiden automatically NEED to be a top character. I dont know how he should be entitled to that for no reason. No character "deserves" to be top tier, someone has to be low, someone has to be mid, someone has to be high.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Got word of your passive aggressive bullshit in this thread

You should remember just because you LOVE raiden doent mean that you are or will ever or ever were good w him in mk9 and MKX. In fact you will always be the type of player you've always been, a non threat

Just because you live that character doesn't mean you are the raiden community voice

You've never done anything to gain that respect in or outside the game and furthermore I've never played a worse raiden in either game.

the results you never achieved but think u sniffed have you confused and has led you down a jealous path.

Last thing, raiden could get buffed or we could remove the HD and I would body your free ass from here to kingdom fucking come so if you wanna get passive aggressive w my name tag me next time and bow up w me in a MM

Until then focus on you and your game and not what my character needs or our character community

Peace Wizz