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Breakthrough - Raiden F1 being a high now redundant, Quan has a 6f D1

B W1zZ

B W1zZ

Noob
I'm sure you all remember Dizzy winning Combo Breaker with Thunder God Raiden, and MIT's F12 antics without real in depth knowledge of the character. Way back then, certain "swine" within our community decided to use their voice and hold that they have in terms of opinions (not facts), over the mindless, sheeple within this community, in an agenda against the Thunder God. Most likely because at that time (and still to this day) they complain about how bad their character supposedly is regardless of the numerous buffs they received (I personally dubbed that patch MKX: Bacon edition), because at that given time Raiden was in his rightful place as a top character and some people just couldn't accept it, also Kenshi just happened to not be top 2 in this game.

Onto my point. The main selling point for Raiden's F1 being made a high was the fact that quan chi could not escape loopable pressure in the corner due to having slow pokes, which is understandable. Outside of Quan Chi I do not recollect any other characters having problems poking out of this. NOW, Quan Chi's D1 is now 6f meaning he can escape this loop so in essence this particular patch change has been made redundant in the most recent patch since that was the only logical reason to nerf this essential mid. Now Raiden has to deal with characters like Cassie who not only low profile everything, but cause his only other, more useless mid in B1(1) to whiff on the second hit because of retarded hitboxes. In my opinion F12 should have been made slightly more negative on block rather than making F1 a high. If F1 has to be a high, than at least make say standing 2 or 3 a mid in it's place, the only other options are b11 which whiffs on low profile happy characters and yoloing NJP like an idiot, also the nerfed B2 which half the time isn't worth throwing out unless you have them conditioned to block low.

Discuss.

@colt
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
B W1zZ said:
I'm sure you all remember Dizzy winning Combo Breaker with Thunder God Raiden, and MIT's F12 antics without real in depth knowledge of the character. Way back then, certain "swine" within our community decided to use their voice and hold that they have in terms of opinions (not facts), over the mindless, sheeple within this community, in an agenda against the Thunder God. Most likely because at that time (and still to this day) they complain about how bad their character supposedly is regardless of the numerous buffs they received (I personally dubbed that patch MKX: Bacon edition), because at that given time Raiden was in his rightful place as a top character and some people just couldn't accept it, also Kenshi just happened to not be top 2 in this game.

Onto my point. The main selling point for Raiden's F1 being made a high was the fact that quan chi could not escape loopable pressure in the corner due to having slow pokes, which is understandable. Outside of Quan Chi I do not recollect any other characters having problems poking out of this. NOW, Quan Chi's D1 is now 6f meaning he can escape this loop so in essence this particular patch change has been made redundant in the most recent patch since that was the only logical reason to nerf this essential mid. Now Raiden has to deal with characters like Cassie who not only low profile everything, but cause his only other, more useless mid in B1(1) to whiff on the second hit because of retarded hitboxes. In my opinion F12 should have been made slightly more negative on block rather than making F1 a high. If F1 has to be a high, than at least make say standing 2 or 3 a mid in it's place, the only other options are b11 which whiffs on low profile happy characters and yoloing NJP like an idiot, also the nerfed B2 which half the time isn't worth throwing out unless you have them conditioned to block low.

Discuss.

@colt
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BigMacMcLovin

BigMacMcLovin

B2s and Birdarangs
It bother me how they just tore Raiden apart, piece by piece until now when he's considered obsolete. I don't even play Raiden and have never wanted to but he was the one true victim of the patches.

I agree with you, TC
 
QXD

QXD

Noob
Was that the only reason it was nerfed? I thought it was made high so a 6 frame move didn't jail into a free electricity string? I could be wrong though.
 
SEN WIIISE

SEN WIIISE

Kall the Kid, King Khanum!
Honestly, I remember that whole scenario about Quan Chi being the sole reason for Raiden's change. If that's indeed the case and Quan Chi can now escape, due to decent patching that give him a 6 frame low? It only seems necessary to give Raiden back his Mid property.

Admittedly, facing him has been a lot easier. But, that's only because it hurts him against characters with smaller hitboxes aka almost every female character. Being that I play Mileena, abusing low pokes and certain specials make him have to try a lot harder to touch me, as if comboing females wasn't annoying enough. For example at mid to close range, if I expect him to poke I can just roll or even low sai. I barely have to worry about pokes and feel more inclined to focus on blocking his pressure and keeping him out. It does seem kinda crappy for Raiden. Though I have still been beaten convincingly by a few good Raiden mains.

When his move was still a mid footsies seemed a bit more fair for him and my only problem really was his damage. But since his scaling was also nerfed, I see no reason to not give him back the Mid property.

I think what's important right now, is to point out the cons he has to deal with and attempting to compromise whether it's a legitimate lacking or lacking of player knowledge. As @Braindead pointed out, something's end up not being public knowledge.

Also if you don't mind, please read this too. (Rant Warning)
Instead of silly "TYM" humor, perhaps those taking the time to read this should give honest and meaningful responses.

Honestly the issue with discussing buffs and nerfs of patches in general? Is dealing with relevancy of a lot of the replies. It's like by everyone expects drama, if not setting the stage for it. (Let me get my popcorn, etc.) The thread will start off with serious intention and get derailed by shenanigans, that'll then turn into multiple unrelated conversations.

Then you'll come across those who post vague opinions regarding the topic at hand. Being informative is the key to finding common ground.
Just saying a few words isn't gonna convince anyone, unless they already agree with or find reason to respect your opinion.

Call this whatever, but its just kind if annoying to me that we as a community have the voice to call for active changes. Yet somehow, we don't seem to take it seriously and wind up complaining after every patch about all the casuals and scrubs, etc. Who whined so much, they got what they wanted.

I've got a feeling I'm going to have to make a full thread about this sort of thing. There's honestly no reason almost every patch request/ discussion thread ends up looking so wacky. Far be it from me to believe I've got the best perspectives, but I wouldn't take most of the threads seriously with all the nonsense I'd have to dig through after a while.
 
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B W1zZ

B W1zZ

Noob
SEN WIIISE said:
Instead of silly "TYM" humor, perhaps those taking the time to read this should give honest and meaningful responses.

Honestly the issue with discussing buffs and nerfs of patches in general? Is dealing with relevancy of a lot of the replies. It's like by everyone expects drama, if not setting the stage for it. (Let me get my popcorn, etc.)

Then you'll come across those who post vague opinions regarding the topic at hand. Being informative is the key to finding common ground.
Just saying a few words isn't gonna convince anyone, unless they already agree with or find reason to respect your opinion.

Call this whatever, but its just kind if annoying to me that we as a community have the voice to call for active changes. Yet somehow, we don't seem to take it seriously and wind up complaining after every patch about all the casuals and scrubs, etc. Who whined so much, they got what they wanted.

I've got a feeling I'm going to have to make a full thread about this sort of thing. There's honestly no reason almost every patch request/ discussion thread ends up looking so wacky. Far be it from me to believe I've got the best perspectives, but I wouldn't take most of the threads seriously with all the nonsense I'd have to dig through after a while.
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Just speaking my mind.
 
Metzos

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
F1 is fine as a high attack. B1 hitbox needs to be fixed a little bit more in order for it to work properly against weird hitbox characters (yeah i mean you too Miss Cage among others...). The only buff TG needs atm, is a slight dmg boost off his electricity strings, during combos. Thats it.

F1 was meant as a punishing tool not a braindead auto win button, cause thats what it was during the early stages of the game. I am glad NRS changed it to a high cause thats how it was meant to be.

Its like saying "oh Tremor does not have a solid mid up close, lets make f1 a mid hitting attack" which is absolutely absurd to say the least.
 
SEN WIIISE

SEN WIIISE

Kall the Kid, King Khanum!
B W1zZ said:
Just speaking my mind.
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No problem man, I didn't wanna make anyone feel like I was specifically saying they were out of place. It's just that, threads like these need a better rep. If it's hard for us to look at them and expect much, you can't really expect anyone who can go through the proper channels to want to.

I originally meant to speak on it in a Mileena thread, but I didn't have the energy to try and write something sincere.

-

I've updated my post as well with my opinion on the matter as well. Didn't wanna be a hypocrite by not chipping in my two cents, regarding the OP.
 
SEN WIIISE

SEN WIIISE

Kall the Kid, King Khanum!
M.D. said:
So, because Quan has a 6f d1, fuck all the rest of the roster and bring back his 6f mid right?

Sure, right away, who the hell plays with the other 23 characters anyway?
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Well, I don't get anything from your post man. No disrespect, but unless you can list 23 reasons why or rather more specifically. HOW him getting his Mid property back in general would be an IMBALANCE? I don't get why you'd say something like that.

Cheekyness aside, please understand I'm just trying to find some sort relevancy. In no way do I mean to offend. But you never really said why it'd be a problem, but sort of imply it could be.

"fuck all the rest of the roster"... How exactly?
 
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