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Breakthrough - Raiden F1 being a high now redundant, Quan has a 6f D1

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
You can't expect them to find everything. We're not post launch beta testers.

Just think of all they stuff they DID find that we don't even know about.
Oh yeah I know they've found things that we didnt, you're totally right. I do think more things could have been found pre launch though considering how quickly some of the more broken things like scorpions fbc bs was found. I'm happy with what they're doing now though, this convo would not be happening if I didn't try to come in and look cool with an I told ya so moment lol.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Man, so much misinformation in the OP, I don't even know where to start. If you're going to be calling people out and firing shots, at least know what you're talking about.

1) The issue with pokes wasn't just Quan Chi
2) The problem with f1 wasn't being was a pure infinite; it was that a 6-frame advancing mid string, which was one of his strongest footsie tools, became a mixup in itself, which led to insane corner carry on hit, and serious chip on block. Even if you had the frame window to poke, you had to know *when* to poke, and with Raiden staggering a 6-frame safe advancing footsie tool that's much easier said than done.

It was silly and it was correctly removed for the right reasons. If he needed additional changes to compensate, that's another discussion -- but under no circumstances should it be left as it was.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
I'm sure you all remember Dizzy winning Combo Breaker with Thunder God Raiden, and MIT's F12 antics without real in depth knowledge of the character. Way back then, certain "swine" within our community decided to use their voice and hold that they have in terms of opinions (not facts), over the mindless, sheeple within this community, in an agenda against the Thunder God. Most likely because at that time (and still to this day) they complain about how bad their character supposedly is regardless of the numerous buffs they received (I personally dubbed that patch MKX: Bacon edition), because at that given time Raiden was in his rightful place as a top character and some people just couldn't accept it, also Kenshi just happened to not be top 2 in this game.

Onto my point. The main selling point for Raiden's F1 being made a high was the fact that quan chi could not escape loopable pressure in the corner due to having slow pokes, which is understandable. Outside of Quan Chi I do not recollect any other characters having problems poking out of this. NOW, Quan Chi's D1 is now 6f meaning he can escape this loop so in essence this particular patch change has been made redundant in the most recent patch since that was the only logical reason to nerf this essential mid. Now Raiden has to deal with characters like Cassie who not only low profile everything, but cause his only other, more useless mid in B1(1) to whiff on the second hit because of retarded hitboxes. In my opinion F12 should have been made slightly more negative on block rather than making F1 a high. If F1 has to be a high, than at least make say standing 2 or 3 a mid in it's place, the only other options are b11 which whiffs on low profile happy characters and yoloing NJP like an idiot, also the nerfed B2 which half the time isn't worth throwing out unless you have them conditioned to block low.

Discuss.

@colt
Quan Chi was also the reason why Fisticuffs was destroyed. I agree with Raiden getting back that mid, but Cage should get at least part of his speedbag old properties since Quan has the 6f poke.
 

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
It does technically, but it works differently in reversals for some reason. I'm not sure if they updated it since the patch, but I remember finding out it was the only thing that could consistently get me out of FT d1+d1 with tremor prepatch
Yea, I'll do some test. Just don't know what character to do it with.
 

Spencer

Always Training
I don't think a 6 frame advancing mid combo starter is a good idea...Im not hating tho.

It's just that would beat or trade with all character pokes into a full combo.

And if you block it you have to guess if he's going to finish it or low combo starter or if he's go with the overhead starter.

Im not hating tho.
 
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Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
Quan Chi was also the reason why Fisticuffs was destroyed. I agree with Raiden getting back that mid, but Cage should get at least part of his speedbag old properties since Quan has the 6f poke.

You can cite a source for this?

A press release from NRS?

Something written in the patch notes?
 

JesterSMX

It's too laggy to poke...
"I can't win without being overpowered"

That's all I hear.

We all saw the beginning of this game. Raiden was everywhere and they all played him the same. Same string and option selects giving an unfair advantage.

The string is a high so it can't be abused. If everyone in the beginning won with him without constant f12, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Blame Raiden mains for the change.
 

Iustinus

Deus Fulminatus
I already quit the game and wone pick it back up until Raiden is restored to his former glory.

He didn't need to be repeatedly nerfed like he was.
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
Man, so much misinformation in the OP, I don't even know where to start. If you're going to be calling people out and firing shots, at least know what you're talking about.

1) The issue with pokes wasn't just Quan Chi
2) The problem with f1 wasn't being was a pure infinite; it was that a 6-frame advancing mid string, which was one of his strongest footsie tools, became a mixup in itself, which led to insane corner carry on hit, and serious chip on block. Even if you had the frame window to poke, you had to know *when* to poke, and with Raiden staggering a 6-frame safe advancing footsie tool that's much easier said than done.

It was silly and it was correctly removed for the right reasons. If he needed additional changes to compensate, that's another discussion -- but under no circumstances should it be left as it was.
/thread