General/Other - Cyber Sub-Zero XL Cyber Sub-Zero Discussion Thread

[RM Ree]

The close neutral is where he loses. Obviously f43 is a mid at 10f, but the follow up is high, duckable and easily whiff punished. D1 (7f mid) and d3 (9f low) are decent pokes/ counter pokes, but I'd recommend b2 or b2 cancels. You either threaten a strong OH/ low (cancel into slide), or return to a more comfortable range for Fridge. Consider instant NJP as well, as it seems to point almost straight down.

 

[SaltShaker]

Yea I'm convinced F43 is garbage and only a combo filler at this point. My training partners are already blowing it up clean, and F4 by itself is too negative.

His pokes get outranged by a lot of characters.

What I do have to use more is B2 cancels. I think that will be the key for sure along with his game.

 

[RM Ree]

Yea I'm convinced F43 is garbage and only a combo filler at this point. My training partners are already blowing it up clean, and F4 by itself is too negative.

His pokes get outranged by a lot of characters.

What I do have to use more is B2 cancels. I think that will be the key for sure along with his game.

Drone buff b2 is +2 as well. Pull the trigger every now and again, then make an opponent respect his + frames with those few fast pokes. Once you land a poke, the pressure is yours and you command respect. Once they respect your + b2, again the pressure is yours.

 

[RM Ree]

So there's gotta be something to his "HKD > bomb > string > bomb explodes" pressure midscreen. Not unblockables, but honest + pressure. Anyone played with this idea yet?

 

[SeanTheGaymer]

Love him! Great character!

 

[RM Ree]

I'm of the mind that ex bomb corner trap shuts Scorpion down. Wake up ex flameport gets him out, but if he follows the typical combo route, puddle freezes him and he's right back in the blender. Not sure about ex takeout, but the risk reward is heavily in C. Subs favor. 1114, ex bomb, go hard in the paint.

What other armor options do bomb/ ex bomb beat? Any lab monsters out there?

 

[Thiago Gomes]

http://testyourmight.com/threads/cyber-sub-zero-midscreen-fullscreen-setups-into-pseudo-unblockable.59204/

 

[Lokheit]

but he has the least options when it comes to mobility and simple offense.

The fridge has SZ slide that goes under MID projectiles (even many of the big ones), as a Cryo main I know how powerful is that as a movement tool and how hard is life for zoners against that slide. On top of that he has what looks like the best dive kick in the game in terms of controlling your position with that speed, that recovery and the ability to use short or long ones. Finally he has that evasive B2 that you can cancel into a ranged move midway to deal with anyone charging at you.

I can't judge his other aspects too much, but he looks like he's completly loaded in the movement department. I'd say he's better than Sektor and Cyrax when it comes to movement, I need to lab Smoke more but probably better than him too (or at least his equal, just a different style of movement control).

 

[babalook]

so 114 into regular iceball is safe on block (or safe enough that a slide or f1 won't punish it, I think -6/7) due to the pushback of the 4 causing the iceball to travel a bit, the only gap is between the 1 and the 4 which if they start taking advantage of you can just do 111. This is also true for tip range (start of match range) b3 and b1 into iceball, there is a gap here, though. So, if for some reason you decide to go for a standing reset, 21 puts the opponent into perfect range for an almost safe 50/50. This is also true with 21[2] iceball.

 

[Anbu]

I get the feeling that the cry babies are going to get there way like they always do and he is going to get nerfed way too hard.

 

[RM Ree]

Nah, I think this dude has too many tools to get hit all that hard. They'll likely take the bomb > b3d4 funblockable. They'll likely alter dive kick recovery on hit/ block. But he'll keep his zoning, footsies, mobility and corner damage. It'll just be more honest.

 

[SaltShaker]

So I was fighting Lao and had an IceBomb on the floor. He did a teleport and when he was almost gone it exploded and only the top of his hat was showing on the floor frozen. When he unfroze he was magically standing in front of me lol. Was hilarious.

 

[Harlequin969]

Ive been playing the cyborgs but have yet to touch CSZ. What is the gameplan for CSZ? Do you play keep away to force a mistake like Sektor or do you rush down pressure into a 50/50 like smoke for the corner carry. Or do you Cyrax it and space control pressure for that one hit that leads to the game over? He's cool and I want to get to the point where I can play Quadborg all variations

 

[boba_buster]

So I was playing a set with a friend yester day using smoke , and he went threw a few characters before he started using csz and started whipping up on me. So I defaulted to trusty old GM , after two matches I got the hang of his csz and I was able to completely shut down his entire gameplan with the clone , does anyone else feel it's a bad MU for csz or was I just making good reads or being lucky?

 

[RM Ree]

So I was playing a set with a friend yester day using smoke , and he went threw a few characters before he started using csz and started whipping up on me. So I defaulted to trusty old GM , after two matches I got the hang of his csz and I was able to completely shut down his entire gameplan with the clone , does anyone else feel it's a bad MU for csz or was I just making good reads or being lucky?

This sounds interesting. I would think just between faster ice ball, dive kick mobility, and f2 ripping through clone that it'd be in C. Subs favor. Idk though, I'd have to spend some time in the lab.

 

[boba_buster]

This sounds interesting. I would think just between faster ice ball, dive kick mobility, and f2 ripping through clone that it'd be in C. Subs favor. Idk though, I'd have to spend some time in the lab.

Its still way to early to know the MU but it def seems like GM stands his ground , couldn't see it being worst than 5-5 for gm

 

[Lokheit]

So I was playing a set with a friend yester day using smoke , and he went threw a few characters before he started using csz and started whipping up on me. So I defaulted to trusty old GM , after two matches I got the hang of his csz and I was able to completely shut down his entire gameplan with the clone , does anyone else feel it's a bad MU for csz or was I just making good reads or being lucky?

I think it's probably more related to the time you've spent in the lab with GM and the time he had available to try the fridge.

I mean... I've been DESTROYING KP2 characters online against people whose records were really good... with effing Cryo!! I'm completly sure that's more related to the hundred of hours of advantage I have over them. I'm even enjoying forcing timeouts against killer leatherfaces because they still don't know what to do at max distance even against SZ slow iceballs and unsafe slide... I started in PSN with MKXL and my record is looking much better than in PC probably because of this lol.

Even when they started winning I generally was able to figure what they were doing and adapt while they didn't have anything more to throw due to the lack of time labbing.

 

[RM Ree]

I started in PSN with MKXL and my record is looking much better than in PC probably because of this lol

Welcome, friend. We've been expecting you.

 

[Alright RyRy]

Going from Reptile to Cyber Sub is really hard for me, simply because the lack of a good pressure tool. I know he isn't designed to be a pressure character, but it almost seems like it isn't doesn't exist at all.

I have been canceling strings into bombs, Yes it is super negative, but if the opponent doesn't have advancing strings its actually pretty good.

 

[RM Ree]

Going from Reptile to Cyber Sub is really hard for me, simply because the lack of a good pressure tool. I know he isn't designed to be a pressure character, but it almost seems like it isn't doesn't exist at all.

I have been canceling strings into bombs, Yes it is super negative, but if the opponent doesn't have advancing strings its actually pretty good.

Which strings do you use? Drone buff 21[2] xx bomb has some decent frames on it.

As for pressure, after a +2 string (1114, f43, 21, etc), you're almost guaranteed a d1. If for no other reason, do it to scout the opponents reaction.

 

[Smarrgasm]

1112 no longer useful to end corner combos into bomb after the hotfix.

114 is probably the best ender other than a NJP splat which is not very practical.

The easiest combo i got so far was B3U4 FDK NJP F43 CDK 114 xx Close Bomb

The problem is any combo into freeze wont allow a bomb cancel at the end.


EDIT- Idk if F2 used to cause the same knockdown cause it was mentioned in the notes but it seems to have the old 1112 knockdown and can be used at the end of corner combos for the old effect.

 

[babalook]

yup the corner vortex still works with f2, we just do a little less damage now

 

[Paul the Octopus]

What are the implications of the divekick change (in today's hotfix)?

 

[SaltShaker]

What are the implications of the divekick change (in today's hotfix)?

From what it sounds like, more punishable on block. The fairest change.

 

[babalook]

i'm actually not that upset at all with the 1112 nerf cuz now cryrax doesn't have the same type of corner game