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General/Other - Cyber Sub-Zero XL Cyber Sub-Zero Discussion Thread

HateMe!

Noob
I put that in slow motion, and it literally looks like the OH-divekick and low-bomb hit at precisely the exact frame.
If they'd actually hit at the same frame you'd be able to block the set-up both crouching and standing.

EDIT: Or are you talking about the ex-bomb-puddle one?
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
oh how i love resets


the 2nd enhanced bomb does 15% damage

bomb stacking damage comparison

My PS4 keeps dying, but the best setup is: NJP hard knockdown, B2-cancel ex-mid bomb, JiK-close bomb.

If they try jumping out, they get kicked in the air and land on the ex-bomb. If they delay wake-up, they're holding down to block ex-bomb and the JiK hits them (overhead). If they try NJP to beat the JiK, they will land on the ex-bomb. This will beat ALL non-armored wake-ups because they are sitting on the ex-bomb puddle.

I want to test this more but my damn PS4 keeps powering off.
Can't see a reason to do these B2 set-ups. I can walk forward and D2 cyber sub casually, or run up blockstring or njp then jump again to avoid the explosion.

If you jump kick you will beat cyber because you jump first. Never mind if your jump 3 is scorpion/subs fast.

Jax can superman, Cyrax can teleport or ragdoll, shinnok can shoulder charge, sektor can teleport, cassie can glow kick, cage can shadowkick, kang can flying kick or multiple kicks, takeda dp or instant air tp, predator straight laser,

Im sure there are more examples but all of the above are meterless punishes or getaways. you might trade with these wake-ups to some degree but they might get out of the corner. Sure they could land in the bomb, but it isn't a solid set-up.

I don't see what the B2 is achieving against somebody who knows the match-up
 

scarsunseen

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Moderator
Can't see a reason to do these B2 set-ups. I can walk forward and D2 cyber sub casually, or run up blockstring or njp then jump again to avoid the explosion.

If you jump kick you will beat cyber because you jump first. Never mind if your jump 3 is scorpion/subs fast.

Jax can superman, Cyrax can teleport or ragdoll, shinnok can shoulder charge, sektor can teleport, cassie can glow kick, cage can shadowkick, kang can flying kick or multiple kicks, takeda dp or instant air tp, predator straight laser,

Im sure there are more examples but all of the above are meterless punishes or getaways. you might trade with these wake-ups to some degree but they might get out of the corner. Sure they could land in the bomb, but it isn't a solid set-up.

I don't see what the B2 is achieving against somebody who knows the match-up
It's a gimmick. Definitely not guaranteed. I think the best setup is to do an ex-bomb after the HKD. Then you're forcing them to forward jump. I definitely have more testing to do with this stuff BUT MY DAMN PS4 DIED. ARGH.
 
Can't see a reason to do these B2 set-ups. I can walk forward and D2 cyber sub casually, or run up blockstring or njp then jump again to avoid the explosion.

If you jump kick you will beat cyber because you jump first. Never mind if your jump 3 is scorpion/subs fast.

Jax can superman, Cyrax can teleport or ragdoll, shinnok can shoulder charge, sektor can teleport, cassie can glow kick, cage can shadowkick, kang can flying kick or multiple kicks, takeda dp or instant air tp, predator straight laser,

Im sure there are more examples but all of the above are meterless punishes or getaways. you might trade with these wake-ups to some degree but they might get out of the corner. Sure they could land in the bomb, but it isn't a solid set-up.

I don't see what the B2 is achieving against somebody who knows the match-up
It's a gimmick. Definitely not guaranteed. I think the best setup is to do an ex-bomb after the HKD. Then you're forcing them to forward jump. I definitely have more testing to do with this stuff BUT MY DAMN PS4 DIED. ARGH.
Yeah exactly its an option that ends in higher damage overall... For the most part imo without getting hits with DE iceballs or bombs csz can be easily outdamaged from characters that have better neutral like ermac.. Yes looping something over and over again is cool when it works and your execution is on point (especially on the deep 2nd njp hkd). But the b2 mid bomb setup is definitely viable especially on a conditioned opponent. No matter if someone knows the mu u cant be ready for every single option csz CAN do in the corner. And we are all discussing options, and to each his/her own for what a csz player takes and uses.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
Yeah exactly its an option that ends in higher damage overall... For the most part imo without getting hits with DE iceballs or bombs csz can be easily outdamaged from characters that have better neutral like ermac.. Yes looping something over and over again is cool when it works and your execution is on point (especially on the deep 2nd njp hkd). But the b2 mid bomb setup is definitely viable especially on a conditioned opponent. No matter if someone knows the mu u cant be ready for every single option csz CAN do in the corner. And we are all discussing options, and to each his/her own for what a csz player takes and uses.
I think you're missing the point entirely. You can take the exact same set-up shown by scars here take away B2mid bomb and just do close bomb and you have a set-up that the opponent HAS to respect.

I get excited seeing these set-ups because they look good, then I record AI until I get the tightest time I can and then play as the opponent. I have so many options that the cyber sub player can't cover them all and its depressing.

I will use this and all of scars recent set-ups when I get them down because they are awesome. Would I ever use them in tournament? No.

Also just because I have found flaws the set-up doesn't mean there isn't a better set-up, Scars could find it tomorrow. If we say here "this is perfect I'll only use this from now on!", then we are letting CSZ down as a character and giving him poor representation.

It's important (as scars said) to know when a set-up is a gimmick, or an actual set-up.

Scars has used the dash forward late njp htb for god knows how many wins and it is a gimmick. Do i use it? Hell yes. Would I gamble it in tournament? No.
 

scarsunseen

Safeties disabled. Mod mode engaged.
Moderator
I think you're missing the point entirely. You can take the exact same set-up shown by scars here take away B2mid bomb and just do close bomb and you have a set-up that the opponent HAS to respect.

I get excited seeing these set-ups because they look good, then I record AI until I get the tightest time I can and then play as the opponent. I have so many options that the cyber sub player can't cover them all and its depressing.

I will use this and all of scars recent set-ups when I get them down because they are awesome. Would I ever use them in tournament? No.

Also just because I have found flaws the set-up doesn't mean there isn't a better set-up, Scars could find it tomorrow. If we say here "this is perfect I'll only use this from now on!", then we are letting CSZ down as a character and giving him poor representation.

It's important (as scars said) to know when a set-up is a gimmick, or an actual set-up.

Scars has used the dash forward late njp htb for god knows how many wins and it is a gimmick. Do i use it? Hell yes. Would I gamble it in tournament? No.
Yea, that's the thing about setup characters. You need to have a cache of setups AND gimmicks (or at least that's how I play). I don't know how many setups and gimmicks I have with Cyrax. I've completely lost count. I'm sure CSZ has better setups and gimmicks, but I still have a lot more exploring to do with him as soon as I get my PS4 fixed or replaced. =(
 
Yeah i agree totally. I mean after all the nerfs triborg went through they have kind of forced csz and cyrax to have alot of gimmicks now. I even so in the video that the "setup" is a type of gimmick, and as a csz main and loyalist anything to add to the Arsenal is a win as long as i can do something to force the opponent to guess my next move
 
Ok so i think there is a glitch that happens sometimes online when doing the njp to deep njp and when you call out the close bomb it flys waaay off screen. Ive had it happen twice. Ill post a video shortly. And i know its not my inputs ie accidentally putting in far bomb.
 
Ok so i think there is a glitch that happens sometimes online when doing the njp to deep njp and when you call out the close bomb it flys waaay off screen. Ive had it happen twice. Ill post a video shortly. And i know its not my inputs ie accidentally putting in far bomb.
 

MILE_HIGH_CLUB

FREEDOM'S LABORATORY
I was just about to come on here and show everyone your tech for this and shout u out lol didnt know u were on tym this is good stuff and easier than the double njp or atleast the 21 version is easier and looks more consistent
exactly 2 1 is the better option ... thanks man lol