Wonder Woman General Discussion Thread

[moraelgamed]

I just want to throw in my 2 cents here. Now, I have been playing fighting games for over 10 years now and I am a Capcom guy.

Now from my experience with fighting games, i have noticed a trend that usually appears in fighting games regarding strong and top tier characters. Usually top tier characters are Flexible, a word that i don't think applies to this version of Wonder Woman. Allow me to elaborate.

What I mean by flexible is that these characters have the tools to deal with most situations and they usually have a presence in the screen. You are not free to do what you want against them because there is always a but. In the context of Injustice 2, think of Black Adam and compare him to Wonder woman. Black Adam have a very strong presence almost at every point on the screen. Full screen he have lighting and the cloud thing. He can dive kick. Mid screen, he got amazing footsies, mobility, projectiles and other things. Up close and you need to worry about His B2 and generally his frames are super good.

Now compare him to Wonder Woman, a character that excels at a particular range on the screen and one with a very weak presence at almost every other range. Full to 3/4 screen and she have nothing to threaten you with. Even eating a shield toss from that range is nothing to worry about, so what ?. Then upclose she got D12 target and that is pretty much it. You can say 223 is amazing but it is not, really it can be punished and anyone savy enough will know how to deal with it.

Wonder Woman is simply not a character that can just do what she wants, when she wants like say Batman, Black Adam, Deadshot , Supergirl and others and these characters are the ones who have a very strong chance of being a top tier character. Even if they don't win every MU, they can compete and have even MUs across teh board and that is better than owning couple of characters and losing bad to couple of others.

Now for a character like WoWo to succeed, for her to be a top 10 or a strong character. She needs to be so exceptionally good at what she does. Is she though ? Is Wonder woman so oppressive in the mid range that her opponents just can't get their going ? I will wait a while to answer that.

Also Wonder Woman being a straight forward character is a horrible thing for her situation. Having the potential dirt is a great thing because others will have more dirt as time goes by. That will only make her MUs harder and harder as people learn.

 

[Akromaniac27]

I just want to throw in my 2 cents here. Now, I have been playing fighting games for over 10 years now and I am a Capcom guy.

Now from my experience with fighting games, i have noticed a trend that usually appears in fighting games regarding strong and top tier characters. Usually top tier characters are Flexible, a word that i don't think applies to this version of Wonder Woman. Allow me to elaborate.

What I mean by flexible is that these characters have the tools to deal with most situations and they usually have a presence in the screen. You are not free to do what you want against them because there is always a but. In the context of Injustice 2, think of Black Adam and compare him to Wonder woman. Black Adam have a very strong presence almost at every point on the screen. Full screen he have lighting and the cloud thing. He can dive kick. Mid screen, he got amazing footsies, mobility, projectiles and other things. Up close and you need to worry about His B2 and generally his frames are super good.

Now compare him to Wonder Woman, a character that excels at a particular range on the screen and one with a very weak presence at almost every other range. Full to 3/4 screen and she have nothing to threaten you with. Even eating a shield toss from that range is nothing to worry about, so what ?. Then upclose she got D12 target and that is pretty much it. You can say 223 is amazing but it is not, really it can be punished and anyone savy enough will know how to deal with it.

Wonder Woman is simply not a character that can just do what she wants, when she wants like say Batman, Black Adam, Deadshot , Supergirl and others and these characters are the ones who have a very strong chance of being a top tier character. Even if they don't win every MU, they can compete and have even MUs across teh board and that is better than owning couple of characters and losing bad to couple of others.

Now for a character like WoWo to succeed, for her to be a top 10 or a strong character. She needs to be so exceptionally good at what she does. Is she though ? Is Wonder woman so oppressive in the mid range that her opponents just can't get their going ? I will wait a while to answer that.

Also Wonder Woman being a straight forward character is a horrible thing for her situation. Having the potential dirt is a great thing because others will have more dirt as time goes by. That will only make her MUs harder and harder as people learn.

For the most part, yes she can. What makes a top character is MU's, how many they win, lose, or go even with, not necessarily their tools, though it does help. The reason I would place her as a contender is because she wins or goes even with every single MU with the exception of 3, Batman, Cyborg & Deadshot, my opinion on MU's but I've ran them enough with higher leveled players to see how it goes. Losing MU's don't knock a character out of top 10 whatsoever, but the fewer the better. Just because the top 5-6 are so needlessly strong, it doesn't mean that those following them can't hold their own, or don't fit in a top 10 category. Mind you, it's almost inevitable they're going to get normalized either way, so that example may not even be relevant in the weeks to come.

Her being straight forward has nothing to do with where she places. Superman and Aquaderp are pretty damn basic, boring and straight forward, yet they're up there.

 

[Stanlos]

You guys feel she is 5/5 against BLACK ADAM?????????????

I am stuck on a guild challenge right now due to him and his infinite Shazam bolt.

 

[Stanlos]

You guys feel she is 5/5 against BLACK ADAM?????????????

I am stuck on a guild challenge right now due to him and his infinite Shazam bolt.

 

[Akromaniac27]

Atrocitus: 4-6
Aquaman: 4-6
Batman: 5-5
Bane: 6-4
Black Adam: 5-5
Black Canary: 6-4
Blue Beetle: 5-5
Brainiac: 6-4
Captain Cold: 6-4
Catwoman: 6-4
Darkseid: 5-5
Deadshot: 3-7
Doctor Fate: 5-5
Flash: 6-4
Grodd: 6-4
Green Lantern: 4-6
Harley: 4-6
Poison Ivy: 5-5
Supergirl: 5-5
Superman: 4-6
Swamp Thing: 6-4
Wonder woman: 5-5

This is what I'd change them to, minus robin, joker, arrow, firestorm (gonna play Dink more and see about this, haven't gotten to play much yet) and cheetah as I haven't really played vs them. Granted, I'm not as seasoned as Akro and haven't played a ton of good players... so take this how you will. I just like discussing this stuff. lol

I have about 3K matches with her so far, so that's why some of my numbers differ.

Aquaman - I sincerely feel its a hard 5-5 for HIM, or a 4-6 for him. He literally can't do anything anywhere. If he's in shield toss range, he isn't getting out anything because she will punish each and every time. If he's fullscreen, she's walking him down; anything blocked or crouched is a free whiffed bash to close to gap in an instant and you're in sweet spot range again. In the corner, you can safely stay out of his range and chip him with JI3's or air down shields. One, because if he tries to armor, you can shield on reaction from the JI3 and break it, and two, his best punish at that distance is FTD, and its too slow to punish her, so he'll risk eating a shield reversal or combo depending on the distance. And of course, the infamous MBbash which he has to hold. If he plays smart, he's gonna get chipped out; if he plays risky or unsafe, he's eating damage. You literally have to do nothing but let him hang himself or respect you.

Atrocitus - I put it as even because its a similar tale. Shield toss range, he can't blood puddle. In the corner, even on knockdown, he isn't getting up because crouching will punish him, or using lasso grab will snag him out of his wakeup. In the neutral, he's risking his mixes to either open up or receive a 40% punish minimum. It evens out when trait is out but that's the case with every character. This a MU where if you play it smart, you will have meter to pushblock to run eDexxstar out. Or you can run away to fullscreen and use shield tosses in the air to hover over the orbs and puddle zoning. Cornered, everyone suffers no matter who it is so it's kinda whatever. She can abuse her JI3 against him too and upclose, can interrupt his d1 cancels on block for a full punish.

Batman - He currently just has too many tools and plus frames tbh. Her d2 is too slow to stop his jumping around if he plays it safe and smart so you have to hold it half of the time. There's no actual risk for him to do anything anywhere so that's why I put it as a 4-6 and not a 5-5. In the corner, she can bully him, sure, but he will nearly always have meter and trait available to find the means to get out or push you back so he gets an opening.

Beetle - She out footsies his other stance, and her parry damn near negates his primary stance entirely. She gets a lifelead and can turtle while parrying every single thing, even the air ones. She more or less doesn't need to respect him for anything while he has to takes risks to get in SOMETHING, and that's why I listed it as a 6-4 her favor.

Catwoman - She can punish shield tosses at slightly below max range with catdash, so you can't exactly turtle her as efficiently as with other characters. However, air down shields are safe and get the job done. It's a MU where a smart CW won't really let you build meter while also preventing her fake zoning. So this hinders your ability to blow up her jumping a bit because you may not always have a MBb3. On the flip side, whiffing bashes underneath her jumping build you meter and evade the jumps altogether, so idk. WW can punish either catdash for a full combo every single time, as well as her jump ins, and can oki her decently, but CW can also oki us too. That's why it's undecided between even or not.

Deadshot - I don't think it's that bad tbh. His zoning isn't the issue, its his air to airs, his B1, and his 50/50's. Playing it patiently and smart will get you far with him, but it isn't exactly countering anything, I just wouldn't list it as 3-7. She has a good chance to beat him but his tools are just absurd for anyone. I think she fairs better than most because of her JI3, and air down shield and her jumps in general. You can jump in between shots and be safe about it, covering more distance.

Fate - its either even or in his favor, not sure. She can somewhat lock him in the corner but his meterbuild is the real issue. He pretty much always has bar to MBroll and him having one of the shortest dashes in the game let him roll out a lot easier and successfully than pretty much anyone else. In the nuetral she can check him with a lot and will almost always successfully walk him down. The problem lies with the meter he's built by that time and he does with it.

Harley and GL - both have good footsies and zoning, but WW can evade and/or parry their stuff on reaction, especially versus Harley. Harley is even imo because her zoning is near useless if you're more or less mastered your mobility and parry reactions; plus Hyenas can be parried, so you still take no damage on so much. WIth GL his zoning isn't as controlling, but it's his oki that's the issue.But on the flips side, she too can oki him hard and run his health down by locking him down.

Ivy - Has no real answer to JI3 or on oki and is going to spend the ENTIRE match on her toes, constantly backdashing herself into corners where you can have your way with her. Even if Ivy gets the first hit and/or sets up her game first/early. You CAN catch up strictly in chip because Ivy HAS to hold it. Ivy has to respect WW anywhere she's close, plus you can parry her F3 on reaction and punish her for it.

Superman - Just played Scar and it reassured it's even. The current problem is how auto pilot Superman is with his recovery and jump ins; they're active asf and have phantom hitboxes. It isn't really an issue outside of air to airs, but it still is something he can do almost freely. He can't effectively zone without getting chipped back or hit out by air shields. and he risks doing trait cancels or footsies because of her parry, backdash and 6f D1. Both hit hard, he obviously hit's harder, but he has to spend his resources for it while she only needs 1 bar. He has to hold her JI3 also and is not getting out of the corner without thinking outside the box.

 

[MKF30]

So just picked her up past few days, she' not the most combo savvy character but that's fine. Something about her that's fun, I love her shield tosses pretty quick. I unlocked her movie outfit last night, pretty cool stuff. She's definitely not the best character in the game nor the worst a solid mid IMO.

 

[Gooberking]

General question. Is there utility in using (as an ender) 223, whiff BF3 to put someone in the corner? More specifically I'm asking because the combo thread has this:
D12~STMB~F23~B3~*Dash Forward*~113 (Side Switch)

If you are being cornered and swap 113 to 223, and follow up with bash, they end up fully in the corner with you right on top of them with a little advantage. 113 can work if you are close to the corner, but 223 doesn't need you to be in the corner to put them in the corner. There isn't a hard knock down, but they don't really have anywhere to roll.

 

[ChatterBox]

Problem is, against an opponent who knows 223 can be interrupted, knows to stand block just outside of sweep range and respects the plus frames on shield charge, she struggles to get much started.

You gotta throw people, a lot. It gets you to the corner and should eventually make them panic back jump, backdash, or throw tech. All three of which are glorious things when you're playing wowo. If you really wanna be a jerk and they truly respect your frames, f2bash or f2toss and go for it.

 

[Yoaks]

General question. Is there utility in using (as an ender) 223, whiff BF3 to put someone in the corner? More specifically I'm asking because the combo thread has this:
D12~STMB~F23~B3~*Dash Forward*~113 (Side Switch)

If you are being cornered and swap 113 to 223, and follow up with bash, they end up fully in the corner with you right on top of them with a little advantage. 113 can work if you are close to the corner, but 223 doesn't need you to be in the corner to put them in the corner. There isn't a hard knock down, but they don't really have anywhere to roll.

Does 223 connect? I've tried to land 223 as an ender in some other combos but sometimes the last hit whiffs.

If it does indeed connect I'll go ahead and update the thread.

 

[Gooberking]

Does 223 connect? I've tried to land 223 as an ender in some other combos but sometimes the last hit whiffs.

If it does indeed connect I'll go ahead and update the thread.

I'm not having any issues with it in the context of this side switch . I assume it's generally better to do 113 and get the knockdown over spitting them across the screen, but in this case it punts them hard into the corner, which seems like a nice place to stick a zoner.

Feel free to get someone else to confirm. I largely don't know what I'm doing and could be mixing my 1 and 3 for all I know.

 

[Yoaks]

I'm not having any issues with it in the context of this side switch . I assume it's generally better to do 113 and get the knockdown over spitting them across the screen, but in this case it punts them hard into the corner, which seems like a nice place to stick a zoner.

Feel free to get someone else to confirm. I largely don't know what I'm doing and could be mixing my 1 and 3 for all I know.

I'll give it a shot. 113 is actually not a hkd unfortunately. It's just better to use that as an ender if your closer to midscreen.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

Any place where I can catch some good WW match footage?

 

[TheGabStandard]

Any place where I can catch some good WW match footage?

Akromaniac has uploaded quite a lot of matches. Most of them are in the WW Breakdown thread

 

[Gooberking]

I'll give it a shot. 113 is actually not a hkd unfortunately. It's just better to use that as an ender if your closer to midscreen.

I thought I checked what roll does to you if you rush in after, but I guess I didn't.

If they roll you can't safely rush in to get on top of them. I think you can probably dash in to close some of the gap, and a LT isn't a bad answer for a lot they might try to after a roll. If they don't roll you seem like you can get in and have a frame or two to stuff a wake up with D1, BOS, or whatever.

It's not perfect, but it's pretty cool to combo, dash in, parry a wake up, and counter combo them.

 

[Evil Canadian]

Granted I only played WW any amount today so i am not very knowledgeable about it but for Aquaman once you get a combo on him can't he just trait the second you throw shield in a combo and get a free punish on you when you mb shield?

 

[Yoaks]

Granted I only played WW any amount today so i am not very knowledgeable about it but for Aquaman once you get a combo on him can't he just trait the second you throw shield in a combo and get a free punish on you when you mb shield?

This is something I've been meaning to look into.

I remember watching some tournament footage of Aquaman vs Supes and after Supes landed mb breath Aquaman traited but still got launched by b3. So my thinking is if he gets hit by mb Shield Toss you can followup with b3 instead of f2.

But so far this is only my theory.

 

[Evil Canadian]

This is something I've been meaning to look into.

I remember watching some tournament footage of Aquaman vs Supes and after Supes landed mb breath Aquaman traited but still got launched by b3. So my thinking is if he gets hit by mb Shield Toss you can followup with b3 instead of f2.

But so far this is only my theory.

Just tested it, he totally can do it. it has to be right when the shield first hits or before so he's gotta be a bit on the ball, but totally can do f1 or d1 into whatever he wants.

 

[CasualPlayer]

so i was playing a little bit of wonderoman testing out her buttons and in her frame data for in a low string she has (cat remember the exact buttons but i think its f23) it said 10 frames but looks and feels more like 20 plus frames. is this a mistake or I'm missing something?

 

[Igniz13]

Sorry if this has been asked before.

WW d2 if you stand after doing it, she does this weird animation that looks like a grab. Does it do anything? Is it a glitch? It's really annoying

 

[Yoaks]

Just tested it, he totally can do it. it has to be right when the shield first hits or before so he's gotta be a bit on the ball, but totally can do f1 or d1 into whatever he wants.

Will have to start confirming into bash then which isn't all bad. Getting him closer to corner is where we want him.

 

[Yoaks]

Sorry if this has been asked before.

WW d2 if you stand after doing it, she does this weird animation that looks like a grab. Does it do anything? Is it a glitch? It's really annoying

thats just the full animation of the move.

 

[Yoaks]

so i was playing a little bit of wonderoman testing out her buttons and in her frame data for in a low string she has (cat remember the exact buttons but i think its f23) it said 10 frames but looks and feels more like 20 plus frames. is this a mistake or I'm missing something?

F2 is definitely 22 f on startup.

 

[Igniz13]

If you stay crouching it doesn't come out, only happens if you stand after d2. Doesn't make sense for a crouching move to have more animation if you stand after.

 

[CasualPlayer]

F2 is definitely 22 f on startup.

or was b23 a low? i can't remember but i might have just misread it.

 

[weedking]

she has only one low and its 20+ frames for sure