Why Sub Zero Should Not Be Nerfed. The GrandMaster Speaks.

[mrapchem]

[/QUOTE]

Are you calling me a scrub?

It's a coinflip, ie 50/50s.

In fighting games, I practice by playing matches against other players. The only thing I use practice mode for is learning the bread and butter strings and combos. Claiming that using practice mode against the AI will help you against a good Sub Zero player is like saying punching the heavy bag will prepare you for an actual fight in a boxing ring.

I already knew that you barely used Practice mode...if you did, you probably wouldn't say half the dumb stuff that you say.

That is something that a Scrub would do.

 

[Kroaken]

Well, looks like you're in the clear. Sub is bottom 5 per the Fox. Welcome to tier hell, you can sit with us

 

[SwiftEagle]

I already knew that you barely used Practice mode...if you did, you probably wouldn't say half the dumb stuff that you say.

That is something that a Scrub would do.
[/QUOTE]
Why do you assume I'm a scrub?

 

[Wigy]

Also you're all saying 19 frames is reactable.

Then why were the best players in the world getting caught by even slower overheads all the time in mkx LOL.

 

[Kroaken]

Also you're all saying 19 frames is reactable.

Then why were the best players in the world getting caught by even slower overheads all the time in mkx LOL.

I'm not. Sonic is

 

[exflyingbooty]

I honestly don't know why people think also we want this character dead.

Slowing the overhead by a couple of frames to make it 22 to 24 won't kill him.
Having iceball's hit advantage nerfed so he can't win every fucking trade in the game will make him fair. If he gets hit with sonya's ex rings or cetrion's boulder from full screen he wins almost all the time.

 

[RM Ree]

I would like the low to be slightly less good of a stagger.

Sub-Zero’s b3 is -4 with nothing very threatening coming after. SZ players don’t see the blocked b3 and go “well I better cancel into ice ball in case he lets go of block.” After raw b3? Poke him. It’s your turn. Players are respecting it because they’re unfamiliar with the character, or they hesitate and poke when neutral has already settled in, getting hit. That isn’t Sub-Zero being a great character, it’s you as a defending player making a mistake.

This is in part what SZ players here are frustrated with; we agree that he’s a strong character. But a -4 b3 stagger with a 10% threat behind it isn’t something that needs a nerf. It’s a serviceable tool to be sure, all characters have them in one form or another. But is it outrageous? Not at all.

(Other staggers for reference, Scorpion f3 is -2 with a KB on kounter, Kitana b2 is 0 with a low confirmable follow up, Jacqui f32 feint is -2 with a safe 15% ender).

 

[RM Ree]

I honestly don't know why people think also we want this character dead.

Slowing the overhead by a couple of frames to make it 22 to 24 won't kill him.
Having iceball's hit advantage nerfed so he can't win every fucking trade in the game will make him fair. If he gets hit with sonya's ex rings or cetrion's boulder from full screen he wins almost all the time.

The f2 overhead has speed at the cost of safety. If you want to slow it down to 22-24f, make the f24 safe on block.

Is he really able to do that? Trade with Cetrion’s boulder and get a follow up from full screen? If so, and I’m gonna test it, that sounds like a pretty reasonable nerf.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Sonic literally just said Sub-Zero is trash on his stream. He has him in B tier. (out of S S- A+ A A- and then finally B) I guess he’s a pretty good player and might know what he’s talking about?

He also said that he thinks Thin Ice is the best variations and would be top of A tier, so no idea why he put Sub in bottom 3 (probably for clickbait value).

I agree with Sonic that regardless of reactability his vortex is overrated. However claiming he is bottom 3 is downright trolling. He has some of the best movement speed in the game and great normals. His damage is average and he wins almost any fullscreen trade. I also agree that Thin Ice is probably better in the long run because of slide.

I would also like to remind people that Sonic thought Joker was top tier in Injustice, and Darkseid was top 3 in Injustice 2. He's been wrong plenty of times before. I also want to reiterate that I am in the no nerf camp as I think Sub is top tier but fair.

 

[exflyingbooty]

The f2 overhead has speed at the cost of safety. If you want to slow it down to 22-24f, make the f24 safe on block.

Is he really able to do that? Trade with Cetrion’s boulder and get a follow up from full screen? If so, and I’m gonna test it, that sounds like a pretty reasonable nerf.

yes, he's able to get up walk a bit and do slide

 

[Zoidberg747]

yes, he's able to get up walk a bit and do slide

I mean tbh everyone in here is pretty much talking about Dead of Winter, not Thin Ice which has slide.

 

[seanpon]

The fact that you cannot seem to understand what has been illuminated in this thread, saying that Sub-Zero plays Mortal Kombat for you in this game and then go to compare Sub-Zero to Atrocitus tells me everything I need to know about you: you are an absolute scrub, perhaps even a proto-scrub! I never needed to use Sub-Zero to beat you, but now I know for certain that I don't - you've already lost in your mind.

The fact is, I've fought thousands of you; people who don't know neutral, maybe know a few un-optimized combos, yet fail to understand why they can't land said combos against decent players in a game like this one. You people don't lab, don't watch good players or even play against people who mop you online; you care more about that arbitrary W/L record, which means absolutely nothing in an online setting.

But most importantly, people like you don't learn from their in-game mistakes, because you don't take accountability for your losses. If a Sub player got close enough to you to make you guess between overhead/low, you would never guess that perhaps you lost the neutral game and that being mixed is a consequence. Sub-Zero shouldn't have a vortex off a +22 on hit normal or a +10/+16 B14/B32 respectively, but even if that were taken away, you'd still find a reason to lose to him.

I was going to use Johnny Cage versus you - a character with a low-low string and no overheads at all. Someone like me doesn't need to mix you to kick your ass - I use good spacing, anti-airing and whiff-punishing. Essentially, I make you beat yourself in the neutral - then I finish you off with combos. However, since you seem content to remain free to Sub-Zero players - and likely players of a myriad of characters - I'll be happy to watch the virtual piss between your legs.

If your so godlike, go to a tournament and win something instead of sitting on your ass defending sub zero lol. The fact that you get so defensive and have to write paragraphs about this character shows that your truly pathetic. If this character was nerfed, you would shed a river of tears bc the only enjoyment you get in your life would be gone. Like I said, if your so good at reacting to his OH/lows, please go to a tournament. Stop defending scrub shit, if you rely on a vortex to win, your a scrub. Get your head out of your ass and open your eyeballs, when have 50/50 vortexes not been broken, its the same reason why everyone hated MKX. People like you are cancer in this community, go play dragon ball fighterz if your reaction is so godlike! You should be able to always tech dragon rushes and mixups in that game since you claim you can react to sub zero.

 

[seanpon]

LOL all the butt hurt sub zero mains are coming out of the closet with this thread. I'm sorry their's a pain in your ass, but play a more fun and balanced character and you will see how more honest the game is.

 

[RM Ree]

If your so godlike, go to a tournament and win something instead of sitting on your ass defending sub zero lol. The fact that you get so defensive and have to write paragraphs about this character shows that your truly pathetic. If this character was nerfed, you would shed a river of tears bc the only enjoyment you get in your life would be gone. Like I said, if your so good at reacting to his OH/lows, please go to a tournament. Stop defending scrub shit, if you rely on a vortex to win, your a scrub. Get your head out of your ass and open your eyeballs, when have 50/50 vortexes not been broken, its the same reason why everyone hated MKX. People like you are cancer in this community, go play dragon ball fighterz if your reaction is so godlike! You should be able to always tech dragon rushes and mixups in that game since you claim you can react to sub zero.

You’re*

 

[Nortnauq]

For the record, I main Raiden and Noob. lol

 

[seanpon]

You’re*

this is a thread, a forum. No once cares about grammar. What point are you trying to make

 

[exflyingbooty]

I mean tbh everyone in here is pretty much talking about Dead of Winter, not Thin Ice which has slide.

Still doesn't make what i said not stupid

 

[RM Ree]

this is a thread, a forum. No once cares about grammar. What point are you trying to make

I’m just saying maybe we should master a keyboard before we master a controller hmm? Baby steps.

 

[seanpon]

I’m just saying maybe we should master a keyboard before we master a controller hmm? Baby steps.

hmmm you realize nobody gives a shit about typing properly when on a forum while using an iphone... if you don't understand that, I think that dog in your profile picture is smarter than you are.

 

[Kroaken]

2019 is a bad year for TYM.

 

[Dogeofthesea]

Fact: 100% people who said Shinnok's 19f OH in MKX is reactable got hit by that extremely frequently.
People who learned to fuzzy guard the 7f low/19f OH mixup ended up getting hit by the low a lot when the Shinnok player delayed the mixup lul.
MK11, even if you can fuzzy that 13f low/19f OH mixup, success rate is still insanely low because: 1/ the mixup is on the first hit, not in the middle or at the end of the string; 2/ Subzero can simply delay the low and 3/ the low string is completely safe and the stagger is too good.
I'm starting to put every one who says MK11 Sub is fuzzyable on ignore list. Bye

 

[RM Ree]

hmmm you realize nobody gives a shit about typing properly when on a forum while using an iphone... if you don't understand that, I think that dog in your profile picture is smarter than you are.

That still makes me twice as smart as you are lmao

 

[M.D.]

Nerfed yet?

 

[seanpon]

That still makes me twice as smart as you are lmao

So you admit your as smart as a mongrel ehhhh.... I ain't as dumb as someone defending ape shit in a fighting game. Literally, a monkey such as yourself can pick up a controller and play sub zero. Do something productive in your free time instead of playing a potato character, you payed $60 for this game so you can flip a coin. Do that with your own spare change, don't waiste my fucking time playing that character

 

[SwiftEagle]

I honestly don't know why people think also we want this character dead.

Slowing the overhead by a couple of frames to make it 22 to 24 won't kill him.
Having iceball's hit advantage nerfed so he can't win every fucking trade in the game will make him fair. If he gets hit with sonya's ex rings or cetrion's boulder from full screen he wins almost all the time.

Sonya

I honestly don't know why people think also we want this character dead.

Slowing the overhead by a couple of frames to make it 22 to 24 won't kill him.
Having iceball's hit advantage nerfed so he can't win every fucking trade in the game will make him fair. If he gets hit with sonya's ex rings or cetrion's boulder from full screen he wins almost all the time.

Sonya can dish out over 400.00 damage in the corner with 1 bar.