RM Ree
Shiba Tamer
Well the thing is, despite all the claims of how powerful he is... no one is using Sub-Zero in tournament
Well the thing is, despite all the claims of how powerful he is... no one is using Sub-Zero in tournament
Yup, since your reactions are godlike, you should have no problems reacting to other stuff like errons drop kick. Why don't you drop some videos of yourself labbing yourself guarding against these 50/50's, I would love to see you amaze everyone in a tournament showing your insane reactions
Kill him. At this point kill him and the good SZ will keep playing with him and make it work and the fake ones will die and find another character. At the end of the day no one is going to agree, if you want him nerfed your just a hater who doesn’t want the character to be good or shine. If you like him the way he is then your a down player that doesn’t want to admit your character is broken and shits on what the game is about. That is very much reality of the situation we are in. And 50/50s make a character strong but the players make the character come to life. As I said in a previous tldr post before. On paper Killed Frost has EVERYTHING to be top 5 IGAU and take thousands of tournaments, this 100% did not happen. Community reacted the same way when the game dropped “killer frost is stupid, slide should not be safe. Nerf her” she did collectively nothing throughout the games life. But for the low price 5.99 you download batgirl and then she did everything KF did and more. For 5.99 you downloaded predator and when SZ got nerfed in mkx(rightfully so I might add he was OD) he did everything Subzero did and more. I think what people in this thread, on Tym, and the FGC forget is that for every evil that is destroyed another one takes its place. How do they say it in marvel comics “cut one head off, and two more take its place.” So when the DLC drop and NRS repeats the pattern that it always does and half this thread drops the 5.99 to go play that top notch dlc character and the entire community says wow so this character does what all the other x top tier was doing when the game dropped but twice as bad, we can all look at this thread and smile. As we are all crushed by a character that makes everything we know and come to love about this game absolutely meaningless. But you know what I can say when it’s all said and done “thank god!!!! It’s not Subzero” cause as long as it’s not him that’s top 5 or top 10 or killing everyone or is good or strong then it’s ok. Also the nerfs subjected don’t kill the character he just become arguably more tolerable but even then I’m sure people would still say universally “Nah dog that character is still broken”
I plan to. I’ll block it. Almost every last Over will get blocked, I’ll get freed up by grabs cause I’m free to grabs but I’ll block almost all his overheads and I’ll even @ you so you don’t miss it when I post. Now I’m curious when I do this then what will you say. Oh I know what you’ll say “oh it doesn’t matter cause it’s training mode, and it’s not a real match” but I’m board I’ll play you game and upload it when I get home. Tell you what since we live in the golden age of technology I’m gonna make sure I stream it to my YouTube from start to finish and I’m going to share play and have friend make his own mix up pattern so that way we can’t even use the excuse of “well you have it on random playback, but you just memorized the pattern so of course you can block it” I’m even going to have audio of us talking so make sure you have your sound on.
It sounds like your taking this way too personally, no one is asking the character to be killed. We just want him not to have unreactable 50/50's that vortex. This is supposed to be about a game that forces you to play footsies. I don't want to guess all day. And its way harder to do in any training mode. A real opponent will stagger, throw, and mix you up, he's not going to play like a predictable training mode dummy that has a pre-set pattern. Even without the 50/50's that vortex the character is still really good, his counter zoning alone owns a lot of characters and forces them to play his game. Sub zero is one of the most repressive characters in this game too play against. He's just as annoying to fight as deadshot was in injustie 2 launch.
But that’s my point. To make you guess all day he still has to burn the meter it is not something that he can mindlessly do. He does still have to get in. And while he does have STRONG tools to get in he still has to work if your own neutral is strong enough. Other wise as I have said before you’d see this character DOMINATE EVERY SINGLE tournament. Yes your right blocking that is 100% harder to do against a real opponent because they will throw, they will stagger, I never said it was easy, I never said I could block it 100% of the time regardless of the situation. But that’s why I said I’m gonna have someone else mix me up so that when I block 85-90% of those over heads people can stop I saying that it’s 100% unreactable. I’m gonna get freed up by throws, and I’m even going to opened up by a stagger and a overhead but my point is that YES you can react if you train yourself for it. And that’s the beauty of this game’s training mode I can share play with a friend have him recorded 4 different random attack patterns and set the replay to random play back and block my heart out. Like I said I’ll get caught but a few times, I’m going to get grabbed A LOT but I’m not going to eat that overhead nearly as much as you think. But regardless I’m sure and this isn’t specifically directed at you but I’m sure it’ll still be a case of “it’s just training mode” but whatever. I do actually agree with one point, he should NOT EVER be able to loop the situation. That 100% is stupid, but that’s why it think the frame advantage on S2 and b32 on hit needs to be nerfed.
As I already said, I'm not totally opposed to removing the DoW 50/50, especially provided they give him something else to compensate since that's basically the only thing that makes DoW worth playing and I'm opposed to useless variations. However, I'm really struggling to understand people who say this is a vortex he can loop endlessly. It's not. BEST case scenario is he gets two chances to use the overhead. And that's if he gets you in the loops while having full offensive meter. More realistically, he'll almost always be able to use the overhead once. That means that as soon as he uses it, the vortex is over. Yes, there are mind games to that, but that's a GOOD thing. Reading and counter-reading are essential parts of fighting games. So there are roughly three plausible scenarios if SZ gets the chance to mix you:
LOL, so you already admitted you would be open'd up by throws, so whats the point of you even showing us your training. So your point is to tell us that you can block the low/OH mixup, but still be open'd up by his throws. Thats kind of the point that people about sub are complaining.... you not only have to worry about low/OH mixups, also by throws and staggers. So by you showing us gameplay of you getting open'd up by throws, your showing us why people complain about sub. Good luck not getting open'd up by sub
I already said that's fine with me. So long as you're willing to get rid of Geras's vortex, Sonya's vortex, Scorpion's vortex, and a half dozen others that loop you into the same scenario and require you to guess correctly to escape.
How exactly does it do that? Three of the four scenarios end with the opponent getting their turn.
Perhaps you cannot react to the overhead, but there is a bunch of footage showing people reacting to Sub's overhead. Plus, as people have stated previously, if you're only playing against these characters online, then you can't make a realistic assessment of how strong/weak they are. Online, even amongst people with wired connections doesn't perfectly emulate the actual game in an offline setting; you can act and react quicker, perform AAs much easier, punish unsafe moves and perform your characters' optimized combos with more consistency.
It’s like you don’t even read my guy. No matter if he had a 50/50 or not, everyone in the game has a 10 frame grab. You’d still have to worry about grabs weather he had the overhead or not. You have to worry about grab from realistically EVERYONE IN THE GAME. The whole point of literally everything I have said was never to say or imply because I did neither of these things btw, that I will never get opened up by sub zero because that 100% is not true. With enough pressure and conditioning any character weather they have a 50/50 or not will open you up. How is it do you think 95% of MK9 was played. Tons of characters in that game did not have said vortex or 50/50 and they still opened people up. Same thing with Black Adam and Superman in IGAU. Neither of those characters had a 50/50 but still opened people up. The point is not to say or imply that subzero’s mix is weak or that I can simply react to every mix up attempt. This is to show that you can react period. Reacting to 10 frames vs 19 frames is not the same thing as 10 frame is out right unseeable. I can see the visual que for his overhead and that is what I am reacting to. And yes your right I will get thrown but what’s the lesser of two evils, getting overheaded into vortex into death for 35-40% or more for loss of life? Or getting thrown and only losing 14-15% of life, you decide cause at the end of the day when I do block that overhead on reaction and he wastes the meter to only to lose it and STILL DIE almost every time he goes for it I’ll gladly take a couple of throws in trade taking one of his CORE mix ups tools out of his game.
Try playing a regular character and see if you find any tool as strong as this one... You evaluate how good is something by comparison. In mkx everybody had broken shit, that was ok. Now sz has this vortex, how good this is? Well, 90% of the cast are actually playing mk11, no 50/50s, no vortex. This is how good this is. Sz has the moves to play mk11 just like everyone else (and pretty good ones), and also the option to go for this vortex 50/50 sh*t.
Raiden is my main.
Wouldn't happen. People would whine about whoever took their place.Imagine a MK without subzero or scorpion...
I guess DJT doesn't exist anymore lmfao
How about I have one scenario for you....
So you want sub to keep his 50/50 vortex ehh... why? are you enjoying getting cheap wins in ranked... If your really good take that sub to a tournament instead of sitting on your couch being a wifi warrior. The worst players in this game are the constant downplayers, because you see how pathetic they act trying to defend something that doesn't belong in the game or is broken. Keep playing that sub zero and thinking your godlike or just go back to MKX
You obviously haven't read anything I've said about what needs to happen with Sub-Zero; I'll let you go and do that, rather than explain yet again what adjustments I believe that Sub-Zero needs. I have a wife, a house and career and teach GED night classes, thus rendering extra time for tournaments null and void.
Played Baraka at Summit. Rude to say he doesn’t exist, though. Shame on you.
Your first point is completely irrelevant. I'm always going to be fighting Sub Zero online. Even if you could react, it's still a coin flip nonetheless.
You seem to love defending sub zero when he has more tools than most of the entire cast and on top of that a 50/50 vortex. How does that sound fun to play as, its especially annoying for people to play against. But hey, its pretty obvious why they made easy mode characters in this game like sub and Geras, its so middle aged guys can feel good playing a fighting game. If you really enjoy playing like a kid with characters that play the game for you, why don't you play something like minesweeper. That game is all guessing as well right? Why would I wan't to play a game against a scrub zero player where I have to respect a 50/50 and if I know i get hit its not my fault. Sub is basically like atrocitus from injustice 2, braindead 50/50 machine with no skill. Its amazing what people try to defend and prove in a fighting game. Instead of playing sub zero, just go flip a coin with your child and make him guess if its heads or tails each time, thats also a 50/50 too right! For someone so busy, you seem to be have a lot of free time defending the indefensible.