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Why Sub Zero Should Not Be Nerfed. The GrandMaster Speaks.

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Matix218

Get over here!
Sub mains just had a gift from Sonic Fox yesterday. Now that he has said sub's 50/50 is reactable everyone will believe him and no one will complain about sub. I mean he's B tier, can't nerf the lowest tier characters right? Even though no one is reacting or will react to subs 50/50 in the real world. IMO saying it is reactable in training mode is one thing but reacting to it in a live match where you have other things to watch out for is something else. I need to see proof of someone doing this consistently in a live match before I buy that it can be done.
 

Endeavor

I'll live a villain, before I die a hero.
Premium Supporter
I'm so impressed! So what your saying is you sit on your ass playing more video games than me? Notice this is a NRS forum and not a street fighter or BlazBlue, so those games don't matter here. If your so godlike, go to a tournament plz. You play all these games and claim to react to sub zero 50/50's? And when is that video of you reacting to all sub's mixups going to drop? I'm still waiting..........
Ok now your just being ignorant. The point I was trying to make is that because I do play other fighting games especially games where the developers dont release a patch for months and months after the game has been mostly if not fully explored before they drop a patch to nerf and kill a character and the players are forced to learn to fight against the character or stop playing the game. On top of the fact that those communities just learn to play around the character and their tools sets to where the character alone are not carrying the players they face. At the end of the day Akuma IS top tier and stupid in SFV, but no one is going to tell you that Tokido is being carried by that character. Good players will still demolish you if you think that just cause you play top tier that character is always going to just play themselves and win for you. And FYI I go to tournaments all the time. I have been to 5 CEO's and 4 Final Rounds. That being said you clearly dont know how to read. I have never said or claimed to be able to react to ALL of subs mix-ups. I have explicitly stated that I am 100% FREE to grabs in this game. I also have never said I block it every time and feel free to quote me a post where I did. I have also stated numerous times that even though the overhead is reactable you are going to get caught by it a couple times or more. Its 19 frames my guy. But its not broken or out right unreactble. And FYI MK9 was my first competitive fighting game. If you think for moment the mk11 Subzero was broken man, Idk what youd do against MK9 Subzero or MK9 Scorpion if just him having this 50/50 make Subzero broken. In fact hit me up when you go play against Batgirl and she puts in the same situation except for her it is hit-confimable and safe on block. When you live through that get back to me

As for the video I have it and Im going to post me reacting to it. Before anyone blows me up I tried to have a friend of mine do a bunch of different mix ups on me through share play but share play would not work so I am going to attempt to do it again later. I DO 100% get hit by said overhead. But the amount of times that I block it are SIGNIFICANTLY higher then the amount that I get hit. And your going to all see me get freed up by grabs, I am free to them. As I have said I am going to get hit eventually but not as much as I would block it.


A few thing to note. I recorded multiple mix-ups and staggers. I threw a lot as to give myself more to worry about than just the overhead and to simulate as much of an opponent's real pressure as possible and set the playback to random so that I would not know what was coming next. That being said I acknowledge it just being in training mode and that in real match the stakes are much higher. I also recognize that I was the one making the mix up attempts so I even if I say I was reacting it can only be taken so seriously. However consider this. IF I could not even react to it in training mode what hope do I have of doing so in an actual match. Also to the end of farther proving that I am capable of reacting to it, I'm willing to allow someone else to make the mix up I will allow any person to share play with me, record their own mix up and staggers mixed in with the overhead and I will try to block as much as I can with them watching. Also I will be going to my local soon so I will see if anyone there wants to run the mirror using DoW and Ill record the matches and upload them. But even then this is mute point as we all know he will get adjustments and be toned down when they release the balance patch. Either way what I have said still stands when they nerf him or "Normalize" him, and then they release the DLC character that will eventually rule the game for the low cost of 4.99 or 5.99 they will just do what subzero or any of the current top 5 did, just better, for more reward, for less resources, more safety. It ALWAYS happens.

Also gonna leave this here just for people who cant believe what im saying. This is sonicfox making his tier list and he outright states the character is GOD online, AND he made DJT not use the character against him in the summit of time. Now do I think the characters is the low on the tier list, absolutely not. To me that's absurd, but the point is that if the man who asked for Grand Master Sub to be nerfed in MKX, and then made a top player like DJT not want to use him in the match up....then maybe, just maybe he might NOT be as op as everyone thinks he is. Just play the game as see how it develops.

5:51 is where he starts talking about Subzero.

 
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Endeavor

I'll live a villain, before I die a hero.
Premium Supporter
I think we’re in the clear at this point. Sonic Fox says he’s bottom 5.
Nah dog As much as I dont think hes broken Bottom 5 is pretty wild. Id say like if someone said he was not top 5 but was like 6 in the tier list Id believe that hands down. Not bottom 5 thats a pretty big stretch. In this regard I agree with the the people who think he is broken. Even without the vortex and the high lows hes still got good tools. And they are good enough to the point where if you have good enough fundamentals he can be a walking nightmare.
 
Ok now your just being ignorant. The point I was trying to make is that because I do play other fighting games especially games where the developers dont release a patch for months and months after the game has been mostly if not fully explored before they drop a patch to nerf and kill a character and the players are forced to learn to fight against the character or stop playing the game. On top of the fact that those communities just learn to play around the character and their tools sets to where the character alone are not carrying the players they face. At the end of the day Akuma IS top tier and stupid in SFV, but no one is going to tell you that Tokido is being carried by that character. Good players will still demolish you if you think that just cause you play top tier that character is always going to just play themselves and win for you. And FYI I go to tournaments all the time. I have been to 5 CEO's and 4 Final Rounds. That being said you clearly dont know how to read. I have never said or claimed to be able to react to ALL of subs mix-ups. I have explicitly stated that I am 100% FREE to grabs in this game. I also have never said I block it every time and feel free to quote me a post where I did. I have also stated numerous times that even though the overhead is reactable you are going to get caught by it a couple times or more. Its 19 frames my guy. But its not broken or out right unreactble. And FYI MK9 was my first competitive fighting game. If you think for moment the mk11 Subzero was broken man, Idk what youd do against MK9 Subzero or MK9 Scorpion if just him having this 50/50 make Subzero broken. In fact hit me up when you go play against Batgirl and she puts in the same situation except for her it is hit-confimable and safe on block. When you live through that get back to me

As for the video I have it and Im going to post me reacting to it. Before anyone blows me up I tried to have a friend of mine do a bunch of different mix ups on me through share play but share play would not work so I am going to attempt to do it again later. I DO 100% get hit by said overhead. But the amount of times that I block it are SIGNIFICANTLY higher then the amount that I get hit. And your going to all see me get freed up by grabs, I am free to them. As I have said I am going to get hit eventually but not as much as I would block it.


A few thing to note. I recorded multiple mix-ups and staggers. I threw a lot as to give myself more to worry about than just the overhead and to simulate as much of an opponent's real pressure as possible and set the playback to random so that I would not know what was coming next. That being said I acknowledge it just being in training mode and that in real match the stakes are much higher. I also recognize that I was the one making the mix up attempts so I even if I say I was reacting it can only be taken so seriously. However consider this. IF I could not even react to it in training mode what hope do I have of doing so in an actual match. Also to the end of farther proving that i willing to allow someone else to make the mix up I will allow any person to shake play with me, record their own mix up and staggers mixed in with the overhead and I will try to block as much as I can with them watching. Also I will be going to may local soon so I will see if anyone there wants to run the mirror using DoW and Ill record the matches and upload them. But even then this is mute point as we all know he will get adjustments and be toned down when they release the balance patch. Either what I have stands when they nerf him or "Normalize" him, and then they release the DLC character that will eventually rule the game for the low cost of 4.99 or 5.99 he just do what subzero or any of the current top 5 did, just better, for more reward, for less resources, more safety. It ALWAYS happens.

Also gonna leave this here just for people who cant believe what im saying. This is sonicfox making his tier list and he outright states the character is GOD online, AND he made DJT not use the character against him in the summit of time. Now do I think the characters is the low on the tier list, absolutely not. To me that's absurd, but the point is that if the man who asked for Grand Master Sub to be nerfed in MKX, and then made a top player like DJT not want to use him in the match up....then maybe, just maybe he might NOT be as op as everyone thinks he is. Just play the game as see how it develops.

5:51 is where he starts talking about Subzero.

Anybody that unironically says Johnny Cage is A tier is either mentally disabled or high. Are you kidding me? Everyone loves to chant "muh safe strings", "muh safe strings", but safe strings don't mean JACK SHIT if everything whiffs! He has no overhead to open up anybody. Good players do NOT respect Johnny Cage's so called "pressure"; everything that isn't F4 or B34 can easily get poked out of. F4 is too slow to compensate for F3 being a high attack. Johnny Cage CANNOT trade force balls with ANY other projectile in the game! He CANNOT immediately block after throwing them out like Kano and others. Using female characters is not a valid excuse. His amplified force balls whiff against males too. All you have to do against Cage is block low and anticipate a grab. The Erron black user in this video also forgot to mention that Cage has no viable crushing blows. Johnny Cage misses out on an entire core mechanic!! Unacceptable! Plus, his second variation is easily the worst variation in the game.
I love how all the crybabies from MKX that bitched about A-list are cunningly praising the worst Johnny Cage in MK history. Go play MKX right now, and notice how you can only cancel one time. That's YOUR doing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Scrub Zero community hate Sonic Fox for saying Grandmaster Sub Zero was broken? Oh, the hypocrisy.
Once again, the popular and easy-to-use-character community dictating who's top and bottom tier. And everyone wonders why certain characters never get touched, but others get nerfed into the ground.
Like pottery.
 

Osagri

Fear the blade of Osh-Tekk
How about I have one scenario for you....

Get rid of the vortex... problem solved

So you want sub to keep his 50/50 vortex ehh... why? are you enjoying getting cheap wins in ranked... If your really good take that sub to a tournament instead of sitting on your couch being a wifi warrior. The worst players in this game are the constant downplayers, because you see how pathetic they act trying to defend something that doesn't belong in the game or is broken. Keep playing that sub zero and thinking your godlike or just go back to MKX
Bruh, sounds like ur middle aged if u cant react to subs overhead. Love how u guys verbally attack someone whos oppinnion differs from your's. Sub aint broken. And no, I do not play sub but I play Against sub regulary
 

Endeavor

I'll live a villain, before I die a hero.
Premium Supporter
Anybody that unironically says Johnny Cage is A tier is either mentally disabled or high. Are you kidding me? Everyone loves to chant "muh safe strings", "muh safe strings", but safe strings don't mean JACK SHIT if everything whiffs! He has no overhead to open up anybody. Good players do NOT respect Johnny Cage's so called "pressure"; everything that isn't F4 or B34 can easily get poked out of. F4 is too slow to compensate for F3 being a high attack. Johnny Cage CANNOT trade force balls with ANY other projectile in the game! He CANNOT immediately block after throwing them out like Kano and others. Using female characters is not a valid excuse. His amplified force balls whiff against males too. All you have to do against Cage is block low and anticipate a grab. The Erron black user in this video also forgot to mention that Cage has no viable crushing blows. Johnny Cage misses out on an entire core mechanic!! Unacceptable! Plus, his second variation is easily the worst variation in the game.
I love how all the crybabies from MKX that bitched about A-list are cunningly praising the worst Johnny Cage in MK history. Go play MKX right now, and notice how you can only cancel one time. That's YOUR doing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Scrub Zero community hate Sonic Fox for saying Grandmaster Sub Zero was broken? Oh, the hypocrisy.
Once again, the popular and easy-to-use-character community dictating who's top and bottom tier. And everyone wonders why certain characters never get touched, but others get nerfed into the ground.
Like pottery.
I fully agreed with Sonicfox and I was a “scrubzero” player. If you read ANY of my post with ANY reference to MKX I have stated the GM was fucking stupid. And as I have said before I have no idea when we got into the era that a character “NEEDS” and overhead to be good cause MKX Liu Kang has no overheads at all and since day 1 I was saying that character was fucking dumb and that no one played him at the beginning and I never understood why. Ninja_Killa appears and everyone finally goes “Holy shit, Liu Kang is busted as shit” Like wise in injustice both 1 and 2 Superman has 0 overheads outside of the universal F3 and that shit is like 30 frames. If you think that character is bad because he lacks mix I’ll be MORE than happy to show differently. As for MKX A-List Cage was whatever I didnt really have an opinion on him because I never labed him. And as far as I know no subzero players in MKX complained about A-List cage if only solely because GM Sub BODIES him with one move pretty much. That match up was MK9 Cage vs Sub all over again except arguably worst because everything Sub did in mkx carried you to the corner. Your bases for your attack against the character and the community is “Oh in the last game everyone said my character was broken when he wasn’t and he got nerfed, so it’s only fair that it happen to your character.” But that’s just it, the very same did end up happening to GM in mkx and at least twice in MK9 and admittedly GM sub was stupid at the beginning of mkx and he was outright broken when mk9 launched. As for cage in this game I’m not gonna tell you he doesn’t need help, there are quite a few characters I feel need help. As much as I hate the bitch Kitana does need help. I also don’t know the characters problems cause I don’t play him, but I do know his KBs need to be more practical. But the point of this thread is not to cry about how bad cage is or how bad any other character is it’s to show why the character is getting unwarranted heat, when honestly the answer before we say the character is broken is to take what you fear into THE LAB train yourself and figure out your options. But no one wants to do that. In this community wether it’s sub or another strong character we just cry until they get toned down or nerfed. The answer is never to let the game breath and try to truly figure it out before we jump in the nerf train.
 
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Evil Canadian

G O K U
Royal Contributor
All these people saying they can react to 19 frames I wanna see it.

Take this test and post 5 results of less than 19 frame average.
http://www.teyah.net/milliablocker.html
I remember the ol milliablocker that was fun

now take that 19f block
understand the game has an inherent 4f of input delay due to engine(all video games do, amount depends on the game. MK11 is 4f)
Unless you playing on a 1ms delay monitor, that's another 1f more than likely
now your 19f move is actually realistically 14 frames you have to react and block with
 
now take that 19f block
understand the game has an inherent 4f of input delay due to engine(all video games do, amount depends on the game. MK11 is 4f)
Unless you playing on a 1ms delay monitor, that's another 1f more than likely
now your 19f move is actually realistically 14 frames you have to react and block with
I like this kind of discussion a bit more than all the flat earthers yelling in here. Do you guys think fuzzying b3 / f2 after s2 is viable?
 

Endeavor

I'll live a villain, before I die a hero.
Premium Supporter
All these people saying they can react to 19 frames I wanna see it.

Take this test and post 5 results of less than 19 frame average.
These are all my scores. My computer monitor is not what I play the game on. I play on Asus monitor. The same kind that they used at tournaments in 2013. These monitors have 1-2 ms I believe. My computer monitor naturally has 5ms input delay. My computer monitor is a Spectre LED 20 inch monitor super slim series, In case you want to check it out for yourself. If you subtract my monitors actual natural input delay I block Millia’s overhead most of the time.
Sorry for the link I couldn't screen cap on my computer as it would restart the simulation when I tried so I took pictures with my camera and they were too big to upload onto here.
take every number on the side, and subtract 5, take my average and subtract 5. Now tell yourself that was my how many times I blocked subs overhead based solely on visual que's. Now tell yourself that every time I blocked his overhead, he got FULL COMBO punished. And If you apply what I said to the numbers on the side that make the average itself, that means I only got hit once. If need be I’ll even take a picture of the two monitors side by side so no one thinks I’m a liar. And with the accurate numbers for the 3 pictures where you can see all 5 of the numbers of what I got on each overhead attempt my three averages are in order 18.1, 18.16, and 17.18. All of those are faster than the overhead.
 
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Endeavor

I'll live a villain, before I die a hero.
Premium Supporter
I like this kind of discussion a bit more than all the flat earthers yelling in here. Do you guys think fuzzying b3 / f2 after s2 is viable?
100%. The real problem imo that makes the situation stupid is not the high low, it when he does neither and starts throwing you. Cause while they Overhead IS reactable, throws are not and they are still too a 50/50. He hits you, then he grabs you to make you stop looking for the overhead whether by having you neutral duck or you just trying to react to him walking up for the throw, then BAM!! Overhead or b32. Like I have said before the overhead is reactable but it’s also still 19 frames and will catch you eventually especially because throws are so strong in this game. Honestly you want to nerf Subzero make throws techable with one button and ever so slightly increase the grab tech window or make it so that there is not front back mix up. Then bam all of a sudden Sub becomes way less scary up close.
 
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xenogorgeous

How could you tell?
Premium Supporter
Sonic just secretly wants to pick up Sub and destroy everyone after the patch :cool:
yeah, that his secret plan agenda ! in MKX, I remember Fox tried to play Sub-Zero at some moment, and he was playing him very pretty well ! so, he has second intentions for MK11 Subby gameplay, hehe ! :p
 

BlondeWolf411

Cowboy Pioneer
I’ve been playing this matchup extensively since release as my brother mains Sub Zero and we play long sets on a regular basis, Sub’s overhead is fully reactable I’ve been saying this since week one. I don’t need Sonic to tell me if something is or isn’t y’all need to start actually playing sets and practicing instead of theory crafting what is and isn’t reactable the animation is extremely telegraphed and it’s easy to full combo punish.

Don’t get me wrong Sub is incredibly annoying to play against because his footsies are godlike on top of mixups but to say he needs nerfed or his overhead taken away is just ridiculous, the character is good but some people are exaggerating it way too much instead of posting “nerf nerf nerf” why not go level up instead lol, just my take on this mess of a thread
 

Endeavor

I'll live a villain, before I die a hero.
Premium Supporter
I’ve been playing this matchup extensively since release as my brother mains Sub Zero and we play long sets on a regular basis, Sub’s overhead is fully reactable I’ve been saying this since week one. I don’t need Sonic to tell me if something is or isn’t y’all need to start actually playing sets and practicing instead of theory crafting what is and isn’t reactable the animation is extremely telegraphed and it’s easy to full combo punish.

Don’t get me wrong Sub is incredibly annoying to play against because his footsies are godlike on top of mixups but to say he needs nerfed or his overhead taken away is just ridiculous, the character is good but some people are exaggerating it way too much instead of posting “nerf nerf nerf” why not go level up instead lol, just my take on this mess of a thread
Literally every single one of my posts.
 

mrapchem

Noob
I’ve been playing this matchup extensively since release as my brother mains Sub Zero and we play long sets on a regular basis, Sub’s overhead is fully reactable I’ve been saying this since week one. I don’t need Sonic to tell me if something is or isn’t y’all need to start actually playing sets and practicing instead of theory crafting what is and isn’t reactable the animation is extremely telegraphed and it’s easy to full combo punish.

Don’t get me wrong Sub is incredibly annoying to play against because his footsies are godlike on top of mixups but to say he needs nerfed or his overhead taken away is just ridiculous, the character is good but some people are exaggerating it way too much instead of posting “nerf nerf nerf” why not go level up instead lol, just my take on this mess of a thread
My sentiments exactly; lab, get your footsie game up, stop mashing and most of all, lab before you whine!!! Thank you for this post.
 

mrapchem

Noob
Anybody that unironically says Johnny Cage is A tier is either mentally disabled or high. Are you kidding me? Everyone loves to chant "muh safe strings", "muh safe strings", but safe strings don't mean JACK SHIT if everything whiffs! He has no overhead to open up anybody. Good players do NOT respect Johnny Cage's so called "pressure"; everything that isn't F4 or B34 can easily get poked out of. F4 is too slow to compensate for F3 being a high attack. Johnny Cage CANNOT trade force balls with ANY other projectile in the game! He CANNOT immediately block after throwing them out like Kano and others. Using female characters is not a valid excuse. His amplified force balls whiff against males too. All you have to do against Cage is block low and anticipate a grab. The Erron black user in this video also forgot to mention that Cage has no viable crushing blows. Johnny Cage misses out on an entire core mechanic!! Unacceptable! Plus, his second variation is easily the worst variation in the game.
I love how all the crybabies from MKX that bitched about A-list are cunningly praising the worst Johnny Cage in MK history. Go play MKX right now, and notice how you can only cancel one time. That's YOUR doing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Scrub Zero community hate Sonic Fox for saying Grandmaster Sub Zero was broken? Oh, the hypocrisy.
Once again, the popular and easy-to-use-character community dictating who's top and bottom tier. And everyone wonders why certain characters never get touched, but others get nerfed into the ground.
Like pottery.
This version of Johnny Cage is not at all like MKX or even MK9 Johnny Cage with a bunch of pressure. MK11 Johnny Cage is primarily a whiff-punishing, heavy-conditioning, strike/throw mix-up kind of character who can annoy opponents at a distance as well.

His pokes are amazing, especially that D4, which jails into F3. Speaking of F3, that normal either is hit-confirmed into 44-NP, or on block you can still throw out 44, or go into a throw. If your opponent is ducking the F3, that's when you start using F44 to make them block. Condition them to block, then throw them.

Mr. Carlton has easy hit-confirms from any of his strings into his specials, and his fireball is one of the best in the game because of its high speed. You can really harass people from distance or even mid-screen and interrupt their zoning, especially someone like Kano.

He is really lacking in the KB department, but that's probably the only buff that he needs. The boy is good otherwise and requires thought and patience. If he can give a character like Geras a hard time, he might not be nearly as bad as you claim he is.
 
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LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless FGC
I remember the ol milliablocker that was fun

now take that 19f block
understand the game has an inherent 4f of input delay due to engine(all video games do, amount depends on the game. MK11 is 4f)
Unless you playing on a 1ms delay monitor, that's another 1f more than likely
now your 19f move is actually realistically 14 frames you have to react and block with
A couple if you are showing you have 5ms input delay plus 4f native delay from game. 1ms monitor like me, but how are you comming up with -5f from results? Maybe I'm not understanding but the game always has 3-4f static reguardless of gear and Ms is completely different from frames.
Isn't 16ms about 1f?
Why are you subtracting 5 frames from results when those 4f will be on there no matter the gear you use?
My average is 22
As far as I know 4f static lag would decrease the window to block a 19f move not make it easier? So 15f to block a 19f move. I'm not understanding how anyone is saying I have 5f input lag and it makes my reaction faster?

Do you have an answer to my questions? @Endeavor
 
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This version of Johnny Cage is not at all like MKX or even MK9 Johnny Cage with a bunch of pressure. MK11 Johnny Cage is primarily a whiff-punishing, heavy-conditioning, strike/throw mix-up kind of character who can annoy opponents at a distance as well.

His pokes are amazing, especially that D4, which jails into F3. Speaking of F3, that normal either is hit-confirmed into 44-NP, or on block you can still throw out 44, or go into a throw. If your opponent is ducking the F3, that's when you start using F44 to make them block. Condition them to block, then throw them.

Mr. Carlton has easy hit-confirms from any of his strings into his specials, and his fireball is one of the best in the game because of its high speed. You can really harass people from distance or even mid-screen and interrupt their zoning, especially someone like Kano.

He is really lacking in the KB department, but that's probably the only buff that he needs. The boy is good otherwise and requires thought and patience. If he can give a character like Geras a hard time, he might not be nearly as bad as you claim he is.
I think it's stupid to say that if someone hasn't used a particular character, he shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on that character. Still, it's obvious that those who are saying how great Johnny is either used him very little or not at all.
The only thing you said that I agree with is about his pokes. Scorpion, Noob, and Baraka are the only characters I can think of that can out D4 Johnny, because of their pokes' range.
Cage's force balls are good, but you can't block after using them. If Cage and Kano were to trade projectiles, Kano would always win, because he can block immediately after throwing a knife. Force balls are meant to be used intermittently, and I'm assuming only after F4 too, because both force balls whiff after F3.
Cage isn't just lacking when it comes to crushing blows, he just doesn't have anything viable period. I have over 1,000 matches with Cage, and I landed his mime parry crushing blow only once online. I landed his amplified nutpunch crushing blow only once in the towers of time. I landed his F43 crushing blow about 6 or 7 times which came down to luck, or my opponent was trash.
Conditioning and annoying your opponent works wonders when you're playing only one match in Kausal then quitting. When playing sets against good players, that's where you notice what little effort was put into the character. Almost every match ends up with your opponent simply blocking low and turtling, anticipating grabs, because without grabs, Cage is worthless. Good players aren't going to let you constantly throw F3s out without spamming pokes or uppercuts. It's very easy to break away from grabs in this game. You can't rely Cage Rage, because sometimes it doesn't even charge properly. Sometimes I have to use it 5 times in order for the unblockable punch to proc. Fun fact: Cage Rage was originally supposed to be Scorpion's move, but it was given to Cage at the last minute. Which further proves how rushed Cage is.
His second variation needs to be completely reworked. There's no argument here. Playing without a variation is actually better. In my opinion, the specials in general are gimmicky and stupid. A camera flash for a stun move? How ridiculous is that in a fighting game? Why even use Cage if he doesn't have access to his nutpunch?
It's not fair that we have to work 3 times as hard and actually think about what we're doing, whereas Jax can just vomit out those bullshit overheads at whim. Most good Cage players aren't even asking for an overhead, just some buffs, yet everyone is shouting how great he is.
I'll go as far as to say that NRS is trying to ruin Johnny Cage for obvious reasons. Cage was always arrogant and always talked, but he always backed up his shit. Especially in MKX as he defeated Shinnock. In MKX he had funny lines, but he was mature. In MK11 he's just a douchebag with a trash moveset. In the story mode it always looks like he's wearing makeup, and he wears these ridiculous, over the top, bright colored pink and purple outfits.
Somebody should remind NRS:
Johnny Cage should be A tier (he isn't right now) not only because he's an original, but because he's the reason, not Liu Kang, why MK exists. He deserves buffs.
Back on topic about Sub Zero, I don't think he's overpowered, but his overhead is too fast. It was a blatant lie for NRS to say this kind of stuff wouldn't exist in this game, but 50/50s high damage combos still exist for some characters, the popular ones that is.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
Well, now that we know you can fuzzy guard a 13-19f window, and that 19f has been deemed reactable on multiple accounts, from Sonic Fox to TYM community... What’s next? It’s gotta be slide, right?

Face it, Sub-Zero is bottom 5. You’re just scrubs.
 
I'm 100% sure that every sub player defending this "reactable overhead just lab it lul" bs will never trade it for a safe mid string.
 
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