UMK3's Kara and Glitch Jab's

[AREZ God of War]

Shrimp and white wine.

I was just wondering, Cuz I'd make you eat Ermac's 110% corner combos all DAY LMAO

It's pretty funny how you choose your words. Saying you can hang with the top players using GJ's by playing "clean", saying it's easy-mode, saying you have pure skill based on combos, saying you're better because you don't need the GJ's to win. You do realize nearly all of those things are soley based on your personal opinion, right? The only thing that isn't is that you can "hang" with the top players using GJ's, which, I can't confirm or deny that. But I do know Arion beat you like 80-3 offline not too long ago, maybe you took those 3 wins to heart.

I guess he failed to tell you that once we got the controllers working properly by resetting the PC I got 21 wins on him in an hour. I'll fuck you up, dude. Get off your online ego and play me offline at a tourney. You have no idea how much better i got in merely a few months. I will crush you between my thumb and index finger. Summer Jam....If you can handle me. U make ONE tournament and u think you're the SHIT......I will BUST your ass, Kid. You don't want it.

Easy for you to critique when you ain't the one who is playing, isn't it? Fuck that. I will DOMINATE you offline. Man-up or shut-up. I'm sick of your fuckin' mouth. You're just another online-warrior. Ask Simon about me. He'll tell you.

 

[Juggs]

Let's stay on topic, please. If you guys want to talk about food, use the PM's.

I guess he failed to tell you that once we got the controllers working properly by resetting the PC I got 21 wins on him in an hour. I'll fuck you up, dude. Get off your online ego and play me offline at a tourney. You have no idea how much better i got in merely a few months. I will crush you between my thumb and index finger. Summer Jam....If you can handle me. U make ONE tournament and u think you're the SHIT......I will BUST your ass, Kid. You don't want it.

Easy for you to critique when you ain't the one who is playing, isn't it? Fuck that. I will DOMINATE you offline. Man-up or shut-up. I'm sick of your fuckin' mouth. You're just another online-warrior. Ask Simon about me. He'll tell you.

You sound mad, chill out man. How can you say I'm the one with an ego when you're saying you have "pure skill" and the way you play is "true skill"? I don't think you can get much more arrogant than that. I don't care how much better you've gotten, when you go around belittling the top players because they do something you don't, and claim that you're actually the one with the real skill, do expect no one to respond to that?

No, I don't think "I'm the shit". And I wasn't even critiquing you, was just responding to you saying you can hang with Arion, when he beat you so bad the last time you guys played offline.

In any case, if you want to personally attack me or challenge me, just PM me. This thread has been derailed enough already.

 

[MKK hanzo]

I guess he failed to tell you that once we got the controllers working properly by resetting the PC I got 21 wins on him in an hour.

Off topic but the best to do here is...

NoDoubt is that true?

And Arez, no need to go in such offensive mode. Juggs is just giving his opinion and what you just said sounds really like that: "I cant GJ so they suck and make the game shit"

Its like complaining about Parries in 3s. Both players can learn it and do it, whats the deal then?

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[NinjaGrinder]

I want some offline action anyways!! this game doesn't count for me when played online, no matter how good both players are. But I guess this game will not see much tournament action anymore, because of MK9 (yes, I'm butthurt that precisaly when UMK3 was being shown to the masses, getting attention, getting stream love, etc... MK9 comes out and almost everyone sent UMK3 to hell, in favor of hype BS) and the bad advertisement some people have given to the game as well.

Hope Season's Beatings will change that, at least once

 

[AREZ God of War]

Let's stay on topic, please. If you guys want to talk about food, use the PM's.



You sound mad, chill out man. How can you say I'm the one with an ego when you're saying you have "pure skill" and the way you play is "true skill"? I don't think you can get much more arrogant than that. I don't care how much better you've gotten, when you go around belittling the top players because they do something you don't, and claim that you're actually the one with the real skill, do expect no one to respond to that?

No, I don't think "I'm the shit". And I wasn't even critiquing you, was just responding to you saying you can hang with Arion, when he beat you so bad the last time you guys played offline.

In any case, if you want to personally attack me or challenge me, just PM me. This thread has been derailed enough already.

LOL but you were wrong. Plus every single match was close and down to the 3rd round...we had some controller issues and when we restarted the PC EVERYTHING I did was so on-point and I wasn't dropping anything, so it is what it is. I supply the place to play, the system, and I take care of everyone ...all I ask is BYOC, cuz I can't always provide everything. We gothrough controllers like dirty laundry around here. You also have to remember I played Simon and Mike for 8 HOURS right before I picked up Arion as well, PLUS had 13 beers. When I started to sober up, things changed alot. How good are you when you drank THIRTEEN beers, Tyler? Can you even drink 13 beers without passing-out or vomitting?

So add the 8 hours straight playing Simon and Mike to another 12 straight playing Arion, and that's a 20-hour MARATHON UMK3 series I played NON-STOP (practically) from like 4pm Thursday to 12 in the afternoon on Friday. You do the math.

 

[Killmaim420]

Honestly man i think the whole glitch jab thing is pretty lame, and something that gives the game a bad rep considering how many players have deemed it acceptable.(which makes me mad because less people will take umk3 seriously because of it) If people want to do it, whatever, i really dont care. I think its lame, but i also feel good when i beat someone who glitch jabs the whole match without using them myself. It's quite annoying though, and i think high level umk3 matches would be better without them. You shouldn't be able to attack while you block in ANY fighting game. Just my opinion though, you're entitled to yours. I have people to play with that are good and dont cheese it up with glitch jabs the whole round(you know it's cheesy....cmon) and i have a lot more fun playing matches with them then i do any glitch jabbers.

 

[MIKECALDWELL]

This thread has been pretty entertaining.

 

[Eternal]

which makes me mad because less people will take umk3 seriously because of it

If people want to do it, whatever,i really dont care..

contradiction much?

 

[fugee don]

Lets talk about what you normally do when someone is standing in one place GJ the air?

Since I main Jax online Ill try run up HK, ground pound, sweep, single/double missle, jump in hp auto/hkx3, or WAIT....in most cases someone is going to special or even jump at you. When facing an aggressive KJ on top of the GJ I even take risks while in block stun and break their flurry moving forward for the grab,jab back or even time the jabs to jump out and cross them over. These are risks I have to take because I know its an uphill battle being old school style and not a Gj but Im not going to block all day getting rushed and chipped to death.

 

[Killmaim420]

^i do similar things. Projectile spam, sweeps, anything that will do chip to them and they cant instantly counter. It is an uphill battle if you are someone who doesnt use glitch jabs though, and in general it isnt all that fun playing against someone who spams GJs when you don't know how to/choose not to do so yourself.


Eternal, what i meant by that was i don't care if you want to do it in a match with me, or with your friends, but the fact that its completely tournament legal right now i feel takes some credibility away from the game. Like i said, it's kind of ridiculous that a glitch that allows you to attack at the same time as you block is considered acceptable even in tournaments. It's just my opinion though, your entitled to yours.

 

[Juggs]

Like i said, it's kind of ridiculous that a glitch that allows you to attack at the same time as you block is considered acceptable even in tournaments. It's just my opinion though, your entitled to yours.

Impossible to ban, that's all there is to it. Regardless if you feel it should or not, it can't be banned, so there is no argument.

 

[MKK hanzo]

Lets talk about what you normally do when someone is standing in one place GJ the air?

Since I main Jax online Ill try run up HK, ground pound, sweep, single/double missle, jump in hp auto/hkx3, or WAIT....in most cases someone is going to special or even jump at you. When facing an aggressive KJ on top of the GJ I even take risks while in block stun and break their flurry moving forward for the grab,jab back or even time the jabs to jump out and cross them over. These are risks I have to take because I know its an uphill battle being old school style and not a Gj but Im not going to block all day getting rushed and chipped to death.

Its very character dependant.

If you are Jax and are facing someone that gjabs "the air" and you have a life lead then let them jab and look stupid.

You can back up a bit (carefully not cornering yourself) and throw some rockets at them or throw a far and obious lk to fake a ground pound so they leave their position and do mistakes. Also you can sweep all you want them cause Jax sweep is almost non punishable on block, but always use the tip of the foot.

If they are hp gjabing you can try risky stuff like early jk foward them, thats 90% safe and will make them block.

Stuff to never do: try a naked hk/lk at almost close range to some characters like h. Smoke or Nw cause they can punish you easily. (But you can against Kabal cause he has no answer agains those block moves unles certain cirscuntamces are met). If you know you dont have the player priority on that round, dont try to run to them and try to trow them cause they will throw you even when you are holding back (counter throw?).

SOMETIMES you can get ultra cocky and run blindly between their jabs and combo trough them, obiously they will block but eat chip dmg.

Also c.lp, c.lk or uppercutt chips them too.



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[MKK hanzo]

Eternal, what i meant by that was i don't care if you want to do it in a match with me, or with your friends, but the fact that its completely tournament legal right now i feel takes some credibility away from the game. Like i said, it's kind of ridiculous that a glitch that allows you to attack at the same time as you block is considered acceptable even in tournaments. It's just my opinion though, your entitled to yours.

Killmaim, I ask then, but please dont take it to you or personal or offensive, please.

If you say that " but the fact that its completely tournament legal right now i feel takes some credibility away from the game"...

Where is the players credibility when lots of players can counter and defeat such techniques? Marv, Dominicans, here, etc.


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[Killmaim420]

If you can counter and defeat such techniques then you're a damn good player, that's all there is to it. I played against marv a long ass time ago and he pretty much owned me, this was liek a year ago now though and it was when i was just learning how to play. I'm not afraid to admit i lose most matches against glitch jabbers partly because i dont do them myself, and because I'm not really a pro at the game or anything. I've beaten them before but i dont play against people who use GJ's every day so I'm not the best at combating them.I mean I'm decent but I've played plenty of people that are better than me. I don't have a huge MK ego like a good amount of people who play umk3, I'm not afraid to admit I'm not teh greatest. I'm not gona take what you said personal or offensive. I'm just trying to have a civilized discussion

I think we can agree that for the most part, in a match between a player who is using GJ's and one who isn't the GJer has a better shot at winning. This doesnt mean its impossible for the non-GJer to win, as I've done it before and, as you said, there's people who can combat them successfully.

Why couldn't it be banned from tournaments? Generally when I'm playing against someone who is using glitch jabs its blatantly obvious to me. (though most the people who use GJ's I've fought will start spamming them immediately when the match starts, i guess one migh be able to be more discreet lol)I guess its more a matter of who wants them banned and who doesnt. If most the people playing in tournaments use glitch jabs and want them to be legal then that's fine, but i feel like it puts anyone who doesn't like them or hasn't learned how to do them at a big disadvantage, meaning less people will want to play in umk3 tournaments, giving less people motivation to play the game.

BTW thanks for the ideas for combating the gjs in your post that will be helpful to me.

 

[Juggs]

Why couldn't it be banned from tournaments? Generally when I'm playing against someone who is using glitch jabs its blatantly obvious to me. (though most the people who use GJ's I've fought will start spamming them immediately when the match starts, i guess one migh be able to be more discreet lol)I guess its more a matter of who wants them banned and who doesnt. If most the people playing in tournaments use glitch jabs and want them to be legal then that's fine, but i feel like it puts anyone who doesn't like them or hasn't learned how to do them at a big disadvantage, meaning less people will want to play in umk3 tournaments, giving less people motivation to play the game.

When you're determining whether something should or shouldn't be banned, you look at 3 different criteria. Is the ban enforceable, discrete, and warranted? First of all, not everyone agrees that it's warranted. The players who know how to beat them, and use them, say that they're fine. On to discrete. We can't really define what would be banned. Would it be you can't cancel your jabs at all with block, or you can't jab multiple times while blocking? There's too much gray area. Then there's is it enforceable? No, it isn't. You can say someone is GJ'ing, but they could just be blocking at the exact time they need to, while they're throwing out jabs. You can say they're GJ'ing, and they could be, but you will almost never be able to say for certain, thus, the ban couldn't be enforced.

Of course if you haven't learned how to GJ, or defend against them, you're at a disadvantage. That's like saying if you haven't learned how to do combos you're at a disadvantage. Learn them, learn to beat them, or accept that you will lose to them if you don't.

 

[Killmaim420]

Even if you know how to defend them, you're still at a disadvantage because that's 1 tool your opponent has that you're not using. If you're really that much more skilled than your opponent you should win though. I get your point on the enforcement issue though, it would be difficult. I wouldn't say its same as saying if you haven't learned how to do combos you're at a disadvantage. Combos were meant to be an integral part of the game. I don't believe glitch jabs were, and don't like that you need to go out of your way to find stategies to combat this tactic, it's a pain in my ass lol. But i'll do it, since i run into GJers every now and then on XBL, they annoy me, and it feels good to stick it to them. Like i said, you're probably right about them being pretty much unenforceable.

If anyone wants to play me add me on xbl! i need more friends to play with.

 

[skateblind]

Problem with banning them is the better you get the more you will punch and block quickly in succession. It really is needed when fighting fast characters or opponents. I do think if they didn't exist, then you would see a lot of fights turning into run jabs and turtling fests. Are there any tournament players who want them banned? You would need the majority of the entrants to agree to banning it and that will probably never happen.

It does make sense that attacking and blocking is not really what fighting games are about, but it exists in this game and is used by a decent amount of good players, so you have to accept it and shut up about it. It is not game breaking like an easy or unavoidable infinite could be.

I still frown on people who stand still and spam it, but once you know they are that kind of player you can avoid getting hit by it and some cases take advantage of their stupidity. I feel sorry for any new players coming across them though, there is very little documentation on the net and is tough to search for if you don't know what they are called.

 

[NinjaGrinder]

Even if you glitch jab, if you're learning the game you're at disadvantage and you will lose badly to experienced players, even if they don't glitch jab... keep that in mind. It's not the GJabs that win, is skill, knowledge and experience that does.

 

[Killmaim420]

Problem with banning them is the better you get the more you will punch and block quickly in succession. It really is needed when fighting fast characters or opponents. I do think if they didn't exist, then you would see a lot of fights turning into run jabs and turtling fests. Are there any tournament players who want them banned? You would need the majority of the entrants to agree to banning it and that will probably never happen.

It does make sense that attacking and blocking is not really what fighting games are about, but it exists in this game and is used by a decent amount of good players, so you have to accept it and shut up about it. It is not game breaking like an easy or unavoidable infinite could be.

I still frown on people who stand still and spam it, but once you know they are that kind of player you can avoid getting hit by it and some cases take advantage of their stupidity. I feel sorry for any new players coming across them though, there is very little documentation on the net and is tough to search for if you don't know what they are called.

That's really waht annoys me, when someone just stand there and spams it. Though it's pretty much just free chip damage for you if you're smart.

 

[Juggs]

Even if you know how to defend them, you're still at a disadvantage because that's 1 tool your opponent has that you're not using.

And that's nobodies fault but your own. If you choose not to learn how yo use them, who's fault is that?

I wouldn't say its same as saying if you haven't learned how to do combos you're at a disadvantage. Combos were meant to be an integral part of the game. I don't believe glitch jabs were, and don't like that you need to go out of your way to find stategies to combat this tactic, it's a pain in my ass lol. But i'll do it, since i run into GJers every now and then on XBL, they annoy me, and it feels good to stick it to them. Like i said, you're probably right about them being pretty much unenforceable.

It doesn't matter if you believe that they're integral or not. The fact is, they're there. As I've said, as players, we're not supposed to have to deliberate on what was or wasn't intended. We play the game we're given, and make outside rules accordingly. And there's no rules against GJ's, there can't be.

 

[Eternal]

Even if you glitch jab, if you're learning the game you're at disadvantage and you will lose badly to experienced players, even if they don't glitch jab... keep that in mind. It's not the GJabs that win, is skill, knowledge and experience that does.

Well said..

When I first started playing this game again a few years ago, I wanted to learn kara/GJs, even if I lost a lot while trying them, I got to the point were I can easily mix up KJ/GJs . But I still lost a lot to people that would just use spacing, cross ups, and try to stay away from my brain dead jab rush down..Like you said "It's not the GJabs that win, is skill, knowledge and experience that does.".... Even today if I get really drunk and play online(ps3), I get over aggressive and jab a lot, usually I will make up to 10 people rage quit on me before I run into a decent player that forces me to not jab as much..

 

[MIKECALDWELL]

This is where I have the most trouble dealing with it. When I'm fearful of a kabal dash or anything else comparable, I will get into a brief defensive mode which will allow my opponent to freely run up and begin chipping me. On the other side, they may have the same fear of some quick move but they are glitch jabbing so I can't run up and apply the same pressure they were able to get on me. It really is a lopsided battle between glitchers and non glitchers.

 

[AREZ God of War]

There's a difference between cancelling jabs w/ block and jabbing WHILE pressing block. Why is everyone pretending there is NOT? It's not the same thing at all, yet it's addressed as the same thing. One of them IS supposed to be implemented, the other is clearly a glitch.

Off topic but the best to do here is...

NoDoubt is that true?

And Arez, no need to go in such offensive mode. Juggs is just giving his opinion and what you just said sounds really like that: "I cant GJ so they suck and make the game shit"

Its like complaining about Parries in 3s. Both players can learn it and do it, whats the deal then?

Man, he was being a fuckin' troll and we all know it. He even admits he randomly trolls when he gets bored or tired, I've heard him say it.

Impossible to ban, that's all there is to it. Regardless if you feel it should or not, it can't be banned, so there is no argument.

You can soft-ban it. Soft-bans just require you to have some respect for your opponent.

Well, I'll be waiting for these "truly skilled players", and will even be more anxious to see them "prevail". Until that magical day, we'll keep dominating the competition until the pure skill advocates realize that in order to improve, they need to use and defend against one of the best tactics in the game.

There's 2 types of players: 1 type is made good by the tactics they use (you)
the 2nd type makes the tactics they use good (me) Some rappers use beats for help, I help the beats.

You can say someone is GJ'ing, but they could just be blocking at the exact time they need to, while they're throwing out jabs. You can say they're GJ'ing, and they could be, but you will almost never be able to say for certain, thus, the ban couldn't be enforced.

Translation : When you get caught cheating, just lie your way out of it and manipulate the system.

 

[fugee don]

now that almost every point has been made I've come to the conclusion that its the KJ that most people are probably having a hard time fighting against. GJ doesn't add much pressure to the match, its just hard to punish when you know your specials backfire if you use them (which we all know should have priority over a jab but doesn't so lets move on). When facing an aggressive KJ that you also know can maximize damage if he opens you up is the most dangerous player IMO. How many matches have you lost because you dropped a few bnbs or customs? I know its been a lot for me but that's my lack of execution against a player I know I cant afford to drop on. There are some people I fight on a regular basis who touch or counter me ONCE and its game-time, and Im talking entire bar.

 

[Juggs]

You can soft-ban it. Soft-bans just require you to have some respect for your opponent.

It doesn't need a soft-ban. Why would it? It only dominates when you refuse to learn how to defeat them. So many people say that GJ's should be banned in some way. Why is it that the only people saying this, are the people who either don't use them, or can't beat them (or have a hard time beating them)? It's quite obvious the situation. Players who have studied, experienced, used, defended, and abused the GJ's, all say it's not that bad and it only dominates if you let it. Why would all of these great players be lying? The close-mindedness when it comes to GJ's really is frustrating. Especially when you have top players specifically stating that they aren't as bad as they seem on the surface.

There's 2 types of players: 1 type is made good by the tactics they use (you)
the 2nd type makes the tactics they use good (me) Some rappers use beats for help, I help the beats.

No, the 2 types of players are the type who play to win, and the type who play for fun. Either type is entitled to how they want to play the game, and neither type is wrong. The problem is when the play to win fight the play for fun types. Play for fun type have an honor code, and arbitrary rules, while play to win type only follow rules that apply at a tournament, and uses everything that's within the game to their advantage. So there's a clear divide when these two types of players actually play each other. The play for fun type has fun put before winning. The play to win type has winning before everything.

I for one will always play to win. Using everything that's tournament legal to your advantage will improve your game more than you can imagine. Not being restricted by arbitrary honor codes and rules will release your true talent, and set you free. I used to not have the playing to win mentality, and I was a complete scrub with no real understanding of how to win at all costs. Fun and honor are nice words, but they don't help you improve or level up the way that playing to win does. I have first hand experience and knowledge of this fact.

I am done arguing. All I ask is that for the people who complain about GJ's or KJ's, is to level up, truly dedicate some time into using and defeating them. Then, when you're adept at these two things, I promise you'll have a completely different outlook on them. I felt the same about them as you all did. But once I actually took the time to conquer this tactic, the blind fold was ripped away, and I could finally see the light.