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TYM's Injustice 2 Discussion Thread (Harley Quinn & Deadshot Official Announced)

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TarkatanDentist

Kombatant
So I actually really liked Injustice. It had its share of flaws, obviously, but considering that it’s a whole new fighting game which tried out a lot of different ideas, it was actually pretty cool. More importantly still, it was FUN TO PLAY.


Since there will almost definitely be an Injustice 2 (it sold so well that it would be flat-out silly NOT to make a sequel), here are some ideas for what I think would make the series, IMO, even better:



The lifebar system

I was sceptical at first, but I actually quite like the ‘2 health bars spread across one match’ dynamic as a break from the usual ‘best of 3’ formula that most fighters follow. I wouldn’t at all mind if it stayed this way, but possibly it might be cool if NRS extended it so that 3 health bars was the default, rather than 2 (whilst providing the option to alter it to 2 health bars, or even down to 1), so that matches last roughly as long as ‘best of three’ Street Fighter matches tend to.


Chip damage

This is where I reckon Injustice could do with taking a cue from the recently released Street Fighter V.

* Special move chip damage: This should be set at a quarter of whatever damage the move would deal on hit, or a token 1% if the aforementioned figure is <1%. No special move has any right to be doing >10% on block, ever, especially if it’s difficult or even impossible to punish on block.

* Leading on from the above, rather than the incredibly tiny chip damage dealt by Injustice normals, I reckon a better idea would be to do away with normal chip damage entirely, and instead introduce a GUARD METER a la Soul Calibur V. With this, normal attacks (and specials too) would take away from the opponent’s guard meter, which would slowly replenish any time where the opponent is not in hitstun, blockstun, or lying on the ground. If all of the opponent’s guard meter is depleted, they get thrown into a Street Fighter-esque extended stun which allows you to land whatever combo you want (or, if the clock is wearing down fast, let the game time out for the win – lol) This would encourage a little bit more offense in the game, but not to the same extent as in MKX, and in a much different way.


Stance switch

Either remove that damn button or give it an actual use, tbqh. Maybe something like ‘do it at the exact frame an attack hitbox connects with your character and it will pass through them harmlessly’ – seriously, anything at all.


Meter system

The four bar system should definitely stay – in a world where three bars seem to be becoming the norm, it helps keep Injustice distinctive!


Clashes

Injustice clashes actually make a nice contrast to the usual combo breaker. For the most part, I think they work fine, but IMO they could be even more strategic if they were altered so that the health recovered was determined by something like the following formula:

Health recovered = Base + floor(3 * ln(h))

where Base = 15, 20, 25 or 30 damage (depending on how much more meter the winning person bet than their opponent!)

and

Floor function = basically rounding down whatever’s in the brackets (e.g. floor(6.8) = 6)

To explain what that means in practice, if you successfully won a clash when your opponent’s life bar was full, and bet one bar more meter than then, you’d recover 28% health. If you won the clash with the same amount of meter when your opponent has, say, 20% of their life left, you’d instead earn 23% health.

Under the most generous circumstances (betting ALL four bars of your meter vs none of theirs, while they have a full health bar), you’d get 38% of your health back.

This would function a little bit like Smash 4’s ‘rage’ system in the sense that while it’s ostensibly a comeback mechanic, in practice it tends to benefit whoever gets the first kill considerably more so, as if they can force their opponent to use their clash at this point, the health reward from the clash could easily be 10% less! That ‘magic pixel’ would become a lot MORE magic.


Multiple traits

Now, I’m someone who is MASSIVELY against the idea of variations coming to Injustice – that mechanic should be MK-exclusive IMO. However, the idea of each character having a choice of three TRAITS is actually quite an interesting one.

Grundy (to a very limited extent) already has this in Injustice with his trait allowing him the choice of greater damage, greater defense or massive resistance to chip damage. Reptile in Mortal Kombat X also gives a pretty good idea of what it would be like, since his variations each functionally have their own ‘trait’ differentiating them.

If coming up with three separate traits per character would be too difficult a task, a choice of two would be a decent compromise.


Throw system

Actually completely fine as is, to be fair, but I reckon reducing the token damage on throw breaks wouldn’t go amiss – 1% as opposed to 2%. This one I don’t care about too much lol


Pushblock

Pushblock is a really cool concept, but it’s in an odd place in Injustice. On the one hand, it feels too good to only cost one bar of meter… but making it cost two bars seems a bit steep. I’d say the best way to balance it a bit is to still have it cost one bar, and simply slightly (only slightly) reduce how far it pushes the opponent back


Interactable normalisations

OK, this is one of the few cases where some cues from MKX wouldn’t go at all amiss.

For a start, MAKE THROWN INTERACTABLES BLOCKABLE. Having them do a hefty chunk of chip damage (but no more than 4-5%) would be fine, but having them unblockable AND difficult to consistently avoid (especially with wakeup traps) is flat-out unfair. I wouldn’t even care if they brought back respawning interactables AS LONG AS THEY CAN BE BLOCKED.

Secondly, if they’re going to have non-universal ways of using them (which isn’t a bad concept at all), can they PLEASE buff the ‘acrobat’ class of interactable users so that their interactable use isn’t complete dogshit. Gadget users at least had some uses for them that power users didn’t (even if, in general, they were still less useful), but seriously, do SOMETHING to make the acrobat users a bit better off.

My thoughts on this are prone to change, but at the very least the ‘no more unblockable interactables’ thing needs to happen.


No more ‘Hawkgirls’

By this, I don’t mean ‘drop Hawkgirl from the game’. Rather, I mean that when designing characters, they need to be careful not to create designs that get massively countered by multiple characters, or that massively counter multiple characters – or both.

I actually found Hawkgirl quite fun to play as, but it’s hard to deny that she’s a shittily balanced character who had WAY too many 3-7 MUs; not a good route to go down…


Alternative supers

Taking cues to some extent from Street Fighter, it would also be nice if characters had the choice of two different supers. One could be the standard ‘ultra powerful attack’-style super, whilst the other could be an alternative move which does something completely different (or just a different style of ‘ultra powerful attack’ – lol)


b3 and f3

These mostly work just fine. The only small change I’d want is that if you use b3 in the corner leading to a stage transition as a combo ender, it should have some level of ‘immunity’ from combo scaling. Specifically, regardless of how long the combo has gone on for, the stage transition does at least 30% of the damage it would have done from a raw hit.

Bounce cancels, in practice, ended up being very impractical most of the time, but how to change that… not so sure tbh. They’re too good to only cost one bar. However, if the above mentioned guard meter idea was implemented, possibly it could be altered so that the cost of a bounce cancel is only one bar… but you instantly lose 50% guard meter as well, and it doesn’t start recovering until the combo ends.



As said, I feel like Injustice is off to a really good start, and will probably eagerly buy the sequel as and when it comes about. Add in some of the changes mentioned above, and I reckon it would help round off the rough edges even further and make the game even more enjoyable to play.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Designs that massively counter others and get massively countered sounds a lot like MKX Sub. I didn't play a lot of injustice but this seems well thought out.
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
I hated the clash thing. I thought it was an obnoxious, momentum killing annoyance. I don't want to see them back. Breakers should be quick and to the point and let you back into the game.

I'm also very pro variation being, not just in I2, but in every fighting game for the rest of time as an assumed rule. It is a simple solution a number of fighting game problems and keeping it a shtick for one game seems like a shame. 3 is probably the max that is viable and it's probably a major headache for the balancing, but two variations would provide a lot of the benefits without getting too crazy. In the case of Injustice and the multi-dimension thing, it actually makes good story sense in a way that it does not in any other game. That said, I really doubt they would use the system for a non-MK game. And as far smuggling the idea in via traits, maybe. But only if they are selectable pre-battle, and allow for the same character to be played in more than one way. But at that point I think we are just calling the same thing two different names.
 

aldazo

Waiting for Havik
If we are talking about somekind of variations for IGAU 2 I would recommend implementing something ala Chaos Code where you have a set of specials, lets say 6, but you can choose only a subset, lets say 4, for the match. It has also an option to select run or dash. All these makes that game (and would make IGAU2) more versatile.
 

Scott The Scot

Where there is smoke, there is cancer.
I don't want a run mechanic or a stamina bar. Hate those things.

If you could choose from traits then I only want two traits per character to choose from - most likely one would help offense in some way whilst the other would help defense.
 

ChatterBox

Searching for an alt.
If they do multiple traits they should tie it into the legacy titles they give to characters. Green Lantern can be Hal, or John. Flash can be Barry or Wally. Superman could be super boy. Green Arrow/Red Arrow. Batman as Bruce or Dick. Robin as Dick or Damian. And on and on.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I didn't do injustice 1 but I will play the shit out of 2. If it's a launching roster of 24 again w/ 12 heroes 12 villains, I want:
Heroes: Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Lantern, Martian, Nightwing, Cyborg, Raven, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Robin(Tim Drake)
Villains: Doomsday, Darkseid, Joker, Harley, Lex, Brainiac, Red Hood, Ra's Al Guhl, Zod, Deathstroke, Bane, Zoom
It may seem like a lot of character would have duplicate playstyles, but I could see Robin and Nightwing and Flash and Zoom being different if they could make Lantern and Sinestro and Superman and Zod different. This is just who I want since they are my favorite characters.
 

TyCarter35

Bonafide Jax scrub
The traits things could work Ala a system where they might have alternate identities for some characters where example would be like Flash having Wally West and Barry Allen with Barry being revolved around activating speed force as he has full access to it unlike Wally. Or Batman with Bruce revolving around gadgets or Jason Todd using guns as part of his gameplay etc.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
An idea for Flash if there are multiple traits. One could be like the injustice 1 trait where he taps into the speed force and slows you down. Another he could go back in time a little if you end up in a situation you don't like. It would need a huge cool down and obviously wouldn't work if you're getting hit with a combo. It would be a way for Flash to kind of reset the neutral and get out of the corner. I don't play injustice so idk how broke that would be but it sounds fun.
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
An idea for Flash if there are multiple traits. One could be like the injustice 1 trait where he taps into the speed force and slows you down. Another he could go back in time a little if you end up in a situation you don't like. It would need a huge cool down and obviously wouldn't work if you're getting hit with a combo. It would be a way for Flash to kind of reset the neutral and get out of the corner. I don't play injustice so idk how broke that would be but it sounds fun.
Now that sounds hella brain dead to me.

Nooooope.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
I think it should be 2v2. No tag ins but use assists.

I liked the breaker system but would prefer it's much quicker. if they have to cut the lines then so be it. Don't need to watch cinematic super length cutscenes in the middle of every match.

Keep the LMH trait button setup. I would not like them to do multiple traits. Just focus on actually making a competitive roster. If NRS actually sticks to one design for a series than maybe injustice 3. I say that because I don't believe Injustice 2 only needed a few changes fundamentally. And if they do make it 2v2 with assists that's going to take enough work. Plus other system changes mentioned below.

Blockable interactables. no escape out of the corner ones.

That's pretty much the basic part of it.

A guard meter would be cool if NRS would stop pushing offense over the line.

I wouldn't mind chip kills if there won't be insane amounts of it. Still don't get why even normals cause chip. At least bring it down to only specials and supers. If not that then at least only specials and supers chip kill.

Projectiles collide. Or at least some change up in the projectile game. Put more variables in there. Can't have an actually deep and satisfying defense game balanced with offense when offense uses every rule in the FG book while zoners/defensive characters have a much more restricted rulebook.

Costumes for every character. Some can have 3 while others have 2. But one having 7 the other 5 some 4 and others none is ridiculous.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
So I actually really liked Injustice. It had its share of flaws, obviously, but considering that it’s a whole new fighting game which tried out a lot of different ideas, it was actually pretty cool. More importantly still, it was FUN TO PLAY.


Since there will almost definitely be an Injustice 2 (it sold so well that it would be flat-out silly NOT to make a sequel), here are some ideas for what I think would make the series, IMO, even better:



The lifebar system

I was sceptical at first, but I actually quite like the ‘2 health bars spread across one match’ dynamic as a break from the usual ‘best of 3’ formula that most fighters follow. I wouldn’t at all mind if it stayed this way, but possibly it might be cool if NRS extended it so that 3 health bars was the default, rather than 2 (whilst providing the option to alter it to 2 health bars, or even down to 1), so that matches last roughly as long as ‘best of three’ Street Fighter matches tend to.


Chip damage

This is where I reckon Injustice could do with taking a cue from the recently released Street Fighter V.

* Special move chip damage: This should be set at a quarter of whatever damage the move would deal on hit, or a token 1% if the aforementioned figure is <1%. No special move has any right to be doing >10% on block, ever, especially if it’s difficult or even impossible to punish on block.

* Leading on from the above, rather than the incredibly tiny chip damage dealt by Injustice normals, I reckon a better idea would be to do away with normal chip damage entirely, and instead introduce a GUARD METER a la Soul Calibur V. With this, normal attacks (and specials too) would take away from the opponent’s guard meter, which would slowly replenish any time where the opponent is not in hitstun, blockstun, or lying on the ground. If all of the opponent’s guard meter is depleted, they get thrown into a Street Fighter-esque extended stun which allows you to land whatever combo you want (or, if the clock is wearing down fast, let the game time out for the win – lol) This would encourage a little bit more offense in the game, but not to the same extent as in MKX, and in a much different way.


Stance switch

Either remove that damn button or give it an actual use, tbqh. Maybe something like ‘do it at the exact frame an attack hitbox connects with your character and it will pass through them harmlessly’ – seriously, anything at all.


Meter system

The four bar system should definitely stay – in a world where three bars seem to be becoming the norm, it helps keep Injustice distinctive!


Clashes

Injustice clashes actually make a nice contrast to the usual combo breaker. For the most part, I think they work fine, but IMO they could be even more strategic if they were altered so that the health recovered was determined by something like the following formula:

Health recovered = Base + floor(3 * ln(h))

where Base = 15, 20, 25 or 30 damage (depending on how much more meter the winning person bet than their opponent!)

and

Floor function = basically rounding down whatever’s in the brackets (e.g. floor(6.8) = 6)

To explain what that means in practice, if you successfully won a clash when your opponent’s life bar was full, and bet one bar more meter than then, you’d recover 28% health. If you won the clash with the same amount of meter when your opponent has, say, 20% of their life left, you’d instead earn 23% health.

Under the most generous circumstances (betting ALL four bars of your meter vs none of theirs, while they have a full health bar), you’d get 38% of your health back.

This would function a little bit like Smash 4’s ‘rage’ system in the sense that while it’s ostensibly a comeback mechanic, in practice it tends to benefit whoever gets the first kill considerably more so, as if they can force their opponent to use their clash at this point, the health reward from the clash could easily be 10% less! That ‘magic pixel’ would become a lot MORE magic.


Multiple traits

Now, I’m someone who is MASSIVELY against the idea of variations coming to Injustice – that mechanic should be MK-exclusive IMO. However, the idea of each character having a choice of three TRAITS is actually quite an interesting one.

Grundy (to a very limited extent) already has this in Injustice with his trait allowing him the choice of greater damage, greater defense or massive resistance to chip damage. Reptile in Mortal Kombat X also gives a pretty good idea of what it would be like, since his variations each functionally have their own ‘trait’ differentiating them.

If coming up with three separate traits per character would be too difficult a task, a choice of two would be a decent compromise.


Throw system

Actually completely fine as is, to be fair, but I reckon reducing the token damage on throw breaks wouldn’t go amiss – 1% as opposed to 2%. This one I don’t care about too much lol


Pushblock

Pushblock is a really cool concept, but it’s in an odd place in Injustice. On the one hand, it feels too good to only cost one bar of meter… but making it cost two bars seems a bit steep. I’d say the best way to balance it a bit is to still have it cost one bar, and simply slightly (only slightly) reduce how far it pushes the opponent back


Interactable normalisations

OK, this is one of the few cases where some cues from MKX wouldn’t go at all amiss.

For a start, MAKE THROWN INTERACTABLES BLOCKABLE. Having them do a hefty chunk of chip damage (but no more than 4-5%) would be fine, but having them unblockable AND difficult to consistently avoid (especially with wakeup traps) is flat-out unfair. I wouldn’t even care if they brought back respawning interactables AS LONG AS THEY CAN BE BLOCKED.

Secondly, if they’re going to have non-universal ways of using them (which isn’t a bad concept at all), can they PLEASE buff the ‘acrobat’ class of interactable users so that their interactable use isn’t complete dogshit. Gadget users at least had some uses for them that power users didn’t (even if, in general, they were still less useful), but seriously, do SOMETHING to make the acrobat users a bit better off.

My thoughts on this are prone to change, but at the very least the ‘no more unblockable interactables’ thing needs to happen.


No more ‘Hawkgirls’

By this, I don’t mean ‘drop Hawkgirl from the game’. Rather, I mean that when designing characters, they need to be careful not to create designs that get massively countered by multiple characters, or that massively counter multiple characters – or both.

I actually found Hawkgirl quite fun to play as, but it’s hard to deny that she’s a shittily balanced character who had WAY too many 3-7 MUs; not a good route to go down…


Alternative supers

Taking cues to some extent from Street Fighter, it would also be nice if characters had the choice of two different supers. One could be the standard ‘ultra powerful attack’-style super, whilst the other could be an alternative move which does something completely different (or just a different style of ‘ultra powerful attack’ – lol)


b3 and f3

These mostly work just fine. The only small change I’d want is that if you use b3 in the corner leading to a stage transition as a combo ender, it should have some level of ‘immunity’ from combo scaling. Specifically, regardless of how long the combo has gone on for, the stage transition does at least 30% of the damage it would have done from a raw hit.

Bounce cancels, in practice, ended up being very impractical most of the time, but how to change that… not so sure tbh. They’re too good to only cost one bar. However, if the above mentioned guard meter idea was implemented, possibly it could be altered so that the cost of a bounce cancel is only one bar… but you instantly lose 50% guard meter as well, and it doesn’t start recovering until the combo ends.



As said, I feel like Injustice is off to a really good start, and will probably eagerly buy the sequel as and when it comes about. Add in some of the changes mentioned above, and I reckon it would help round off the rough edges even further and make the game even more enjoyable to play.
So I don't know if you or anyone knows but if they are making inj2 right now it started 3 years ago

That's how this works

Like right now if you wanna list ideas list it for the game coming out in 2018/2019

I'm dead serious
 

The Highlander

There can be only one
I was happy with most all of injustice, keep the un-clashable b3 f3, the level transitions, traits, the awesome clash dialogue. My only fear is guest characters... Like ok they're for sure going to make some DLC but make them comic book characters. I don't need subzero showing up...

Also teleport characters, shazam's were alright but scorpion and martians were kind of a mess..
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
So I don't know if you or anyone knows but if they are making inj2 right now it started 3 years ago

That's how this works

Like right now if you wanna list ideas list it for the game coming out in 2018/2019

I'm dead serious
Are you saying they worked on injustice 2 and MKx at the same time? I always thought work started once the new game was done. Then gradually get people working on injustice while making DLC and patches for MKX.

Still think it's fun to write about what we'd like to see though. Unless the community came together and pushed a wishlist to NRS I doubt any of it will ever really matter though. Either way I really hope they do 2v2.
 

aldazo

Waiting for Havik
If they do multiple traits they should tie it into the legacy titles they give to characters. Green Lantern can be Hal, or John. Flash can be Barry or Wally. Superman could be super boy. Green Arrow/Red Arrow. Batman as Bruce or Dick. Robin as Dick or Damian. And on and on.
This :u is a great idea. If there are no counterparts like Dick/Damian, then they could make things like Future/Present, Earth/Alternate Reality, Normal/Bizarro, etc.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Are you saying they worked on injustice 2 and MKx at the same time? I always thought work started once the new game was done. Then gradually get people working on injustice while making DLC and patches for MKX.

Still think it's fun to write about what we'd like to see though. Unless the community came together and pushed a wishlist to NRS I doubt any of it will ever really matter though. Either way I really hope they do 2v2.
not exactly how game deving always works. a company can have several groups working on different game projects. i wouldnt be surprized if they started during or slightly before mkx release.

that being said, i still hope they do away with the clash system, which basically amounts to one breaker per match. Improved walk speed, go easy on the 50/50's, no batgirl, no martian, no bane. Proper rounds instead of just 1 long match with a break in the middle. Never was a fan of that.
 
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