There is really no hope for Sindel

[Sao87]

I go to gatherings every week in the Chicago area. I do rather well actually. In theory her d1 should work but that's not always the case. In situations where she should beat out someone with a d1 it's not always consistent. Osu16bit was even trying it when we were at Fighter x Shooter and he was shocked at how unreliable it is. Step up can be punished by fast specials so it's not exactly safe depending on who you're fighting.

Well of course you will have to choose your windows more wisely as Sindel. Nobodys d1 can compare to Kitana so it doesn't really shock me that osu thought it was bad. I also think that Kitana may be your issue, she beats Sindel everywhere on the map. You might want to think about an alternate for that match up.

In theory Step up is punishable by some of the fastest special moves in the game (not very many) but the risk vs reward is way in your favor on block if they don't have AI like reactions.

 

[CongoFury]

So, you're having trouble with teleporting characters? Whenever you come across 1 don't rely on projectiles so much. Treat it like a different character. Go in, but let block be your friend. Once you get in punish them. If they teleport block it and punish with a bnb. Try to take notice of how your opponent chooses to block. Do they duck block the majority of the time? If so, go with b3f2 combos. If they are standing, go with b12 combos. Ever since the patch my game has completely leveled up. I almost feel cheap playing with her.

dont rely on projectiles so much. gotcha.
pay attention to how they block. gotcha.

i know i have to adjust to how i play a bit because of the way i play when i use mileena. i go in thinking sometimes i can do the same thing with sindel like how i do with mileena. so i have to adjust my way of thinking a bit when it comes to sindel.

 

[Delriach]

Well of course you will have to choose your windows more wisely as Sindel. Nobodys d1 can compare to Kitana so it doesn't really shock me that osu thought it was bad. I also think that Kitana may be your issue, she beats Sindel everywhere on the map. You might want to think about an alternate for that match up.

In theory Step up is punishable by some of the fastest special moves (not very many) in the game but the risk vs reward is way in your favor on block if they don't have AI like reactions.

I don't think the Kitana vs Sindel match up is actually that bad. Sindel can actually outzone her but you have to play it very smart and be on your game 100% of the time. It's very possible though. You just cannot let Kitana get in at all or it's pretty much over unless you have a breaker.

 

[Magnet]

I go to gatherings every week in the Chicago area. I do rather well actually. In theory her d1 should work but that's not always the case. In situations where she should beat out someone with a d1 it's not always consistent. Osu16bit was even trying it when we were at Fighter x Shooter and he was shocked at how unreliable it is. Step up can be punished by fast specials so it's not exactly safe depending on who you're fighting. If the step up whiffs then she's definitely vulnerable.

the problem with using sindel's d1 to get pressure off of her is its reach. it is horribly short. i want something that reliably gets pressure away; such as using armor to break through an opponent's offense. but oh well

and sao i am fully aware that buffering her cartwheel is essential. simply because i dont state all of my tactics doesnt mean i am unaware of/dont use them. suppose the cartwheel is blocked. sindel is still in close quarters and the opponent will run her over. Cartwheel isnt even fully safe on block.

 

[Sao87]

the problem with using sindel's d1 to get pressure off of her is its reach. it is horribly short. i want something that reliably gets pressure away; such as using armor to break through an opponent's offense. but oh well

and sao i am fully aware that buffering her cartwheel is essential. simply because i dont state all of my tactics doesnt mean i am unaware of/dont use them. suppose the cartwheel is blocked. sindel is still in close quarters and the opponent will run her over.

There is a move for every situation.

Tight up close = d1
slightly up close = d3
little bit in front of sweep distance = d4

If you are getting pressured hard you are most likely really close, a 6 frame move is your best answer.

 

[Delriach]

the problem with using sindel's d1 to get pressure off of her is its reach. it is horribly short. i want something that reliably gets pressure away; such as using armor to break through an opponent's offense. but oh well

and sao i am fully aware that buffering her cartwheel is essential. simply because i dont state all of my tactics doesnt mean i am unaware of/dont use them. suppose the cartwheel is blocked. sindel is still in close quarters and the opponent will run her over. Cartwheel isnt even fully safe on block.

Exactly. Even if the cartwheel is completely safe on block she is still literally right next to the opponent. Exactly where she doesn't want to be.

 

[CongoFury]

I don't think the Kitana vs Sindel match up is actually that bad. Sindel can actually outzone her but you have to play it very smart and be on your game 100% of the time. It's very possible though. You just cannot let Kitana get in at all or it's pretty much over unless you have a breaker.

good point. any really good kitana player can pretty much finish you if your not on your game. cant make too many mistakes there.

 

[CongoFury]

There is a move for every situation.

Tight up close = d1
slightly up close = d3
little bit in front of sweep distance = d4

If you are getting pressured hard you are most likely really close, a 6 frame move is your best answer.

pokes for just about anything a player can throw at sindel. will they work 100% of the time? or at least to put some distance between her and her opponent.

 

[Sao87]

Exactly. Even if the cartwheel is completely safe on block she is still literally right next to the opponent. Exactly where she doesn't want to be.

Its neutral or -1 on block, so jump back =/ jump back a few times if you are so uncomfortable. Everything you do should be to position yourself to work the screen backwards and push people away.

 

[Magnet]

There is a move for every situation.

Tight up close = d1
slightly up close = d3
little bit in front of sweep distance = d4

If you are getting pressured hard you are most likely really close, a 6 frame move is your best answer.

youre very right. honestly the only issue i have is sindel's inability to escape once shes caught. actually the only method i use to escape is poke~Cartwheel. but that can only take you so far. i feel like there is less reward for sindel when the cartwheel is blocked. i also jip into a grab to get some space but with the adjustement to JiP's advantage that is no longer possible

 

[Sao87]

youre very right. honestly the only issue i have is sindel's inability to escape once shes caught. actually the only method i use to escape is poke~Cartwheel. but that can only take you so far. i feel like there is less reward for sindel when the cartwheel is blocked. i also jip into a grab to get some space but with the adjustement to JiP's advantage that is no longer possible

If you can consistently land the jip then do 111 flight cancel throw. This adjustment still guarantees a throw attempt after the patch.

 

[Delriach]

Its neutral or -1 on block, so jump back =/ jump back a few times if you are so uncomfortable. Everything you do should be to position yourself to work the screen backwards and push people away.

k, let's say you're fighting Johnny Cage. Jump back. Get shadow kicked. Jump back fireball and you may be lucky to land it unless they did the one with armor. Jump back against Kitana and get insta-air fireballed. Jump back against Reptile and deal with his crazy dashes. If you're in the corner you can't jump backwards. The opponent will know that you have to jump forward to escape and they most likely have a plan for that. In the case of Cage, he can just do a standing antiair and put in back into a block string.

And I don't think the Step up is completely unsafe or anything. It just sucks when the opponent anticipates it because they know that's her go-to move. It has so many weaknesses though and it's very easy to exploit. I don't think it can literally be punished by a full combo or something so I should prolly clarify that.

 

[Sao87]

k, let's say you're fighting Johnny Cage. Jump back. Get shadow kicked. Jump back fireball and you may be lucky to land it unless they did the one with armor. Jump back against Kitana and get insta-air fireballed. Jump back against Reptile and deal with his crazy dashes. If you're in the corner you can't jump backwards. The opponent will know that you have to jump forward to escape and they most likely have a plan for that. In the case of Cage, he can just do a standing antiair and put in back into a block string.

And I don't think the Step up is completely unsafe or anything. It just sucks when the opponent anticipates it because they know that's her go-to move. It has so many weaknesses though and it's very easy to exploit. I don't think it can literally be punished by a full combo or something so I should prolly clarify that.

Cage has to burn meter to push you away. Realistically this match is in Sindels favor, if hes up close its sort of your fault for letting him in. Luckily well timed pokes in between his frame traps will do a lot for getting him off of you, I would know since I'm a Cage main.

 

[Magnet]

If you can consistently land the jip then do 111 flight cancel throw. This adjustment still guarantees a throw attempt after the patch.

i'll give that a shot. thanks i just hope the patch drops for ps3 tomorrow...:facepalm:

 

[M2Dave]

Its neutral or -1 on block, so jump back =/ jump back a few times if you are so uncomfortable. Everything you do should be to position yourself to work the screen backwards and push people away.

As far as I know, the step up kicks are -6 on block. Kung Lao (spin) and Reptile (elbow dash) can punish if the move is anticipated. While no other character can punish, someone like Johnny Cage can do f+3 and Sindel must block afterwards.

I think Sindel deserved the changes she has received. If she had received armor on EX step up kicks, I think she would be complete. Certainly, she beats some characters, but they are all irrelevant low tier characters.

 

[Delriach]

Cage has to burn meter to push you away. Realistically this match is in Sindels favor, if hes up close its sort of your fault for letting him in. Luckily well timed pokes in between his frame traps will do a lot for getting him off of you, I would know since I'm a Cage main.

It should be in Sindel's favor but Cage can build meter rather fast so even if he wastes it he's not in that much of a loss. Sindel's fireball game is not impenetrable, especially when he has a move that is designed to go through it. Throughout the entire match it's a constant battle to stay full screen. Sindel is constantly being pushed into the corner. Once he does land a hit that knocks you down he has the freedom to do a lot to her. And her pokes do not work against Cage reliably from what we tested at Fighter x Shooter. 16bit was giving me tips on when to use the move during a Cage pressure situation and the results were not consistent. He then proceeded to use Quan Chi after saying Sindel is garbage. I fight a very good Cage player every week at the local gathering in the area. He's been winning all the tourneys for quite some time now and he was in the top 5 at Fighter x Shooter iirc.

I'm not saying the match is impossible. I'm just saying that she has a hell of a hard time getting out of situations. Even if he is susceptible to a good zoning game a good player isn't just going to let that stop them. Especially when they have options for it.

 

[Sao87]

As far as I know, the step up kicks are -6 on block. Kung Lao (spin) and Reptile (elbow dash) can punish if the move is anticipated. While no other character can punish, someone like Johnny Cage can do f+3 and Sindel must block afterwards.

I think Sindel deserved the changes she has received. If she had received armor on EX step up kicks, I think she would be complete. Certainly, she beats some characters, but they are all irrelevant low tier characters.

You are right, I always goof up the notation. It feels like -5 or -6 (were talking about the 4, 4 string right?). Cartwheel feels like -7 or possibly -8.

Edit: The 4, 4 string is advantage to Sindel to use d1. I tested it with Morty last night against KL spin and won every time.

 

[M2Dave]

You are right, I always goof up the notation. It feels like -5 or -6 (were talking about the 4, 4 string right?). Cartwheel feels like -7 or possibly -8.

Never mind. I was talking about the step up kicks (d,f+4).

My issue with Sindel (and bare with me because the damn patch has yet to released on the PS3) is/was the fact that she should be able to go even with characters like Sub Zero and Johnny Cage based on her design. Apparently, she does not, which tells me that her core gameplay is not sufficiently effective.

 

[Sao87]

It should be in Sindel's favor but Cage can build meter rather fast so even if he wastes it he's not in that much of a loss. Sindel's fireball game is not impenetrable, especially when he has a move that is designed to go through it. Throughout the entire match it's a constant battle to stay full screen. Sindel is constantly being pushed into the corner. Once he does land a hit that knocks you down he has the freedom to do a lot to her. And her pokes do not work against Cage reliably from what we tested at Fighter x Shooter. 16bit was giving me tips on when to use the move during a Cage pressure situation and the results were not consistent. He then proceeded to use Quan Chi after saying Sindel is garbage. I fight a very good Cage player every week at the local gathering in the area. He's been winning all the tourneys for quite some time now and he was in the top 5 at Fighter x Shooter iirc.

I'm not saying the match is impossible. I'm just saying that she has a hell of a hard time getting out of situations. Even if he is susceptible to a good zoning game a good player isn't just going to let that stop them. Especially when they have options for it.

If hes not in, he is not building meter. You should be crouch blocking and fuzzy guarding his overheads which stops his ability to run any sort of battery pressure.

 

[Delriach]

You are right, I always goof up the notation. It feels like -5 or -6 (were talking about the 4, 4 string right?). Cartwheel feels like -7 or possibly -8.

Edit: The 4, 4 string is advantage to Sindel to use d1. I tested it with Morty last night against KL spin and won every time.

I thought we were all talking about step up kicks. I'm confused.

Regarding 44, I'm quite certain she can be poked out of the second 4. I remember Dan Cock talking about it before too. Have we been wrong this entire time O___o

 

[Somberness]

Cartwheel and :en cartwheel is -7.
4,4 is 0 on block.
F1,2 is +14 on hit.

 

[Delriach]

Cartwheel and :en cartwheel is -7.
4,4 is 0 on block.
F1,2 is +14 on hit.

You are amazing.

<3

What about B3F2 on block? If it isn't too much trouble

 

[Somberness]

-2.

 

[Delriach]

-2.

Interesting. I was expecting more.

Thank you so much ^_^

 

[EndofGameBoss]

Do any of you have video matches you can share? The problems you guys are having seem null to me. Maybe we play completely different or something. I would love to actually see the problems being discussed.

EDIT: I recently got Tom Brady's living guide; here are some things that might help.

Best Normals:
111-3 hit string that jails. Safe on block
21-Gives advantage on hit. Safe on block.
44-safe launcher
u4-Super launcher. Punished by full combo on block.
311-Safe 3 hit string
d4-safe low poke that grants advantage on hit.

According to his guide the cartwheel is safe on everyone, but 2 characters. I would post more, but I'm sure the guy would rather you buy it if you don't own it. The only disappointing thing is, this is how I already played.